Spirit or Superstition?

[74x12]

In my new book [The Genesis Wheel ~ out 1st August] I argue that many of the so-called miracles and supernatural happenings in the Bible are not true accounts, but are there because of underlying gematria calculations the scribes were setting down. I write:

"From the burning bush to the ascent of Elijah to heaven, all the really odd and supernatural narratives of the Bible that I have investigated have gematria behind them, and are explained by scribal motivation to compose a mathematical sum. While this may be upsetting to some people, I don’t think this is something that should cause anyone to lose their faith in the spirit of God ... There is a great difference between holding a belief in the Spirit, and in rank superstition. Why should a true personal relationship with the original divinity be predicated on cheap supernatural favor seeking rituals?"

I think after reading my book, many people will be persuaded that the miracles and strange tales of the Bible were not intended to be read as factual accounts. It is not my intention to impact upon anyone's belief in God however. My question is:

Could you retain your faith and belief in God without believing in the strange and miraculous accounts in the Bible? Is a belief in 'the spirit' of God behind everything enough for you?

I look forward to your considered replies.

I do believe the Bible. And yes obviously it's full of gematria but I believe God uses numbers also. I don't think all of the Bible was purposefully encoded with gematria by humans. Although parts of it may have been. There is a generic side of gematria and of course the human element that is done purposefully.

But that's just my point. My research of gematria and numerology in general has led me to the conclusion that no humans do gematria or numerology magic without help. They must have spirits to help them do it on at least the 5th dimension. Think of geometry but beyond the 3rd or even 4th dimensions. So we're talking about something that is beyond mere humans. Therefore they must have help to achieve it. The results of this magic done on the 5th dimension then manifest themselves in bizarre and inexplicable ways in our own reality. To help us understand how; we should look to the whole analogy of our 3d selves interacting with a 2d world that is called "flat land". Probably you are already familiar with the analogy so I won't go into details.

My point is, that the writers of the Bible could not have done all the gematria by themselves. God did it. And as for magicians that use the magic of numerology or gematria they cannot do it either without the help of demons. So there is satanic gematria and in the Bible: God's gematria.

 

[David T]

I hope she has a wonderful birthday party, David, and you're quite right, love is an absolute that cannot be quantified. I agree.

Now i hope you are sucessful the love of the text regardless is a good thing. Yes maybe there is a code. But thats for a different neurology if true. Aspergers and mine is synesthesia. Totally different we appoach it all differently.

 

[Uncommon Sense]

I’ve spoken to some who do gematria. Some argue with each other over the results since its one thing to do the objective calculations and another to determine what is meant or what to do with them. There are also some who deliberately try to make gematria and calculations look foolish to perhaps destroy its credibility. I’ve never looked into it much myself, but this is what I’ve heard and seen from others who do. But they all seem to see or believe in a deeper mathematical code behind events, words, phrases, names, and other stuff.

So that I’m guessing is where it would matter where someones state of consciousness is at, or unconscious, intuition, or intent are at after the objective calculations in interpreting the results.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

My point is, that the writers of the Bible could not have done all the gematria by themselves. God did it.

Why not? My analysis of Genesis 1-2 shows there were probably 2 scribes working on the same project, probably tasked to it by a high priest of a Temple. They follow the same conventions but they have slightly different styles which are discernible. Its impressive work, but not beyond human ability.

 

[Windwalker]

Could you retain your faith and belief in God without believing in the strange and miraculous accounts in the Bible? Is a belief in 'the spirit' of God behind everything enough for you?

Being that I don't believe the mythologies about Biblical Inerrancy, I'm quite comfortable with critiques which expose its very human cultural origins. My faith in God was never dependent upon a belief in the Bible. Believing the Bible literally is a quick way to lose one's faith, if they are honest with their natural doubts given the level of knowledge about it we possess today. But alas, I think too many are distracting themselves from actual faith and its consequences by diverting constant energy to defend one's beliefs against doubt, rather than allow doubt to help grow their faith.

I'll have to look into your thoughts about the codes. I haven't thought of it in terms like that. I generally just view them as cultural mythologies, along with certain common archetypal forms acting upon the subconscious minds. More along the lines of a Joseph Campbell understanding. Not that that precludes what you are taking notice of. The two probably work together at some level, I'm sure. I just haven't cracked the lid of that thought so far. These things tend to never be just one thing, but multiple connecting systemic factors, horizontally as well as vertically, culturally as well as spiritually.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

I’ve spoken to some who do gematria. Some argue with each other over the results since its one thing to do the objective calculations and another to determine what is meant or what to do with them. There are also some who deliberately try to make gematria and calculations look foolish to perhaps destroy its credibility. I’ve never looked into it much myself, but this is what I’ve heard and seen from others who do. But they all seem to see or believe in a deeper mathematical code behind events, words, phrases, names, and other stuff.

So that I’m guessing is where it would matter where someones state of consciousness is at, or unconscious, intuition, or intent are at after the objective calculations in interpreting the results.

They're using the wrong number set for the bible. People who use Standard gematria get closest but they have 2 letters with the wrong values, so they go wrong with their calculations even while seeing some of the picture. There's a lot of self-delusion about it. In the case of Genesis 1-2 the scribes were composing each line to correspond with a path or palace of a numerical diagram called the Seven Palaces, so the results are highly specific, and the scribes have kindly included checksums too.

But I hear you, most people who are doing gematria are using it in ways the ancient scribes would not have viewed as legitimate. I hope to raise the bar somewhat.

 

[74x12]

Why not? My analysis of Genesis 1-2 shows there were probably 2 scribes working on the same project, probably tasked to it by a high priest of a Temple. They follow the same conventions but they have slightly different styles which are discernible. Its impressive work, but not beyond human ability.

Maybe what you have researched is not beyond human ability. But that doesn't mean there is not numerology which is.

Anyway, just because they may indeed have adopted gematria as incumbent with their style of writing that in itself does not mean the stories are fake. It just means they used that style of writing to tell the story. Clearly, in ancient times when the numeral system was based on the alphabet; more people new of and were interested in gematria. Now when we have a separate numeral system people are less informed. So I'm not arguing against the idea that they used gematria while composing the Bible.

So, that would be like claiming that a poem about a true story is fake because the poet made the story fit into the style of a poem.

They're using the wrong number set for the bible. People who use Standard gematria get closest but they have 2 letters with the wrong values, so they go wrong with their calculations even while seeing some of the picture. There's a lot of self-delusion about it. In the case of Genesis 1-2 the scribes were composing each line to correspond with a path or palace of a numerical diagram called the Seven Palaces, so the results are highly specific, and the scribes have kindly included checksums too.

That's very interesting. I might read your book although I disagree with you about the stories being fake for the reasons I've stated.

But I hear you, most people who are doing gematria are using it in ways the ancient scribes would not have viewed as legitimate. I hope to raise the bar somewhat.

There are many styles of gematria; but I am interested to learn more about this one.

Good day

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

Maybe what you have researched is not beyond human ability. But that doesn't mean there is not numerology which is.

There's always PI. Only God knows PI.

Anyway, just because they may indeed have adopted gematria as incumbent with their style of writing that in itself does not mean the stories are fake.

True, but there are technical difficulties that argue against that. For instance, each time a scribe says "in-between" it means divide by 2. Or when they say לא "not" it means to disregard the next word. "all" means use several words together while "on" means subtract from the next word. The math notation dictates the meaning of the text.

There are many styles of gematria; but I am interested to learn more about this one.

Good day

That's great to hear. To the locked door of the Bible there is just one key. Have a nice day.

 

[exchemist]

In my new book [The Genesis Wheel ~ out 1st August] I argue that many of the so-called miracles and supernatural happenings in the Bible are not true accounts, but are there because of underlying gematria calculations the scribes were setting down. I write:

"From the burning bush to the ascent of Elijah to heaven, all the really odd and supernatural narratives of the Bible that I have investigated have gematria behind them, and are explained by scribal motivation to compose a mathematical sum. While this may be upsetting to some people, I don’t think this is something that should cause anyone to lose their faith in the spirit of God ... There is a great difference between holding a belief in the Spirit, and in rank superstition. Why should a true personal relationship with the original divinity be predicated on cheap supernatural favor seeking rituals?"

I think after reading my book, many people will be persuaded that the miracles and strange tales of the Bible were not intended to be read as factual accounts. It is not my intention to impact upon anyone's belief in God however. My question is:

Could you retain your faith and belief in God without believing in the strange and miraculous accounts in the Bible? Is a belief in 'the spirit' of God behind everything enough for you?

I look forward to your considered replies.

A lot of people, including myself, do not take much of the Old Testament literally in any case, so it won't come as a terrible shock if you announce that not all these ancient stories are literally true.
I'm afraid I've no interest in numerology - except insofar as it influenced the compositions of J S Bach, who was a member of his local numerological society and took it all very seriously.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

A lot of people, including myself, do not take much of the Old Testament literally in any case, so it won't come as a terrible shock if you announce that not all these ancient stories are literally true.
I'm afraid I've no interest in numerology - except insofar as it influenced the compositions of J S Bach, who was a member of his local numerological society and took it all very seriously.

I hope most people are as sensible as you are. Numerology is not the same as gematria. Gematria is ancient math. Numerology is more like astrology. Interesting about Bach. I did not know that. Did it influence his music?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You "have investigated"? How?

 

[Prestor John]

In my new book [The Genesis Wheel ~ out 1st August] I argue that many of the so-called miracles and supernatural happenings in the Bible are not true accounts, but are there because of underlying gematria calculations the scribes were setting down. I write:

"From the burning bush to the ascent of Elijah to heaven, all the really odd and supernatural narratives of the Bible that I have investigated have gematria behind them, and are explained by scribal motivation to compose a mathematical sum. While this may be upsetting to some people, I don’t think this is something that should cause anyone to lose their faith in the spirit of God ... There is a great difference between holding a belief in the Spirit, and in rank superstition. Why should a true personal relationship with the original divinity be predicated on cheap supernatural favor seeking rituals?"

I think after reading my book, many people will be persuaded that the miracles and strange tales of the Bible were not intended to be read as factual accounts. It is not my intention to impact upon anyone's belief in God however. My question is:

Could you retain your faith and belief in God without believing in the strange and miraculous accounts in the Bible? Is a belief in 'the spirit' of God behind everything enough for you?

I look forward to your considered replies.

Fortunately, we have ancient scripture outside of the Bible, as well as modern-day scripture, that testify to the truthfulness of these "supernatural" events.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

You "have investigated"? How?

May I refer you to my papers on academia.edu which details that. You can find a link to them on page 1 reply 6.

 

[shunyadragon]

Many cultures have a creator deity. The Norse peoples had a primordial cow. Before the Bible the Sumerians knew Enlil, so I don't think the Bible is the cause of that belief, although it has shaped the way Abrahamic religions think of a creator God.

I believe it is often the case that claimed miracles are the result of oral histories containing at times actual events such as the Biblical flood, which is likely the handed down story of a catastrophic flood o the Tigris Euphrates valley later recorded by the Sumerians, Others are events that are not understood and amplified into miracles.

 

[shunyadragon]

Fortunately, we have ancient scripture outside of the Bible, as well as modern-day scripture, that testify to the truthfulness of these "supernatural" events.

Actually no.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

Fortunately, we have ancient scripture outside of the Bible, as well as modern-day scripture, that testify to the truthfulness of these "supernatural" events.

Such as?

 

[Prestor John]

Actually no.

Yes, we do.

We have the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.

Not to mention all the apocryphal and pseudepigraphal works out there.

 

[Prestor John]

Such as?

We have the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.

There are also many apocryphal and pseudepigraphal works to turn to.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

I believe it is often the case that claimed miracles are the result of oral histories containing at times actual events such as the Biblical flood, ehich is likely the handed down story of a catastrophic flood o the Tigris Euphrates valley later recorded by the Sumerians, Others are events that are not understood and amplified into miracles.

Yes, the flood is entirely possible, but the details of the Noah story are for the purposes of gematria. The creation story likely originated in Mesopotamia but the details of it are all due to gematria and the conformations of the chambers of the Merkabah. There are broader strokes of truth to these stories but the detail of them was written for a different purpose than recording historical events. Sometimes they were written to produce numbers that were thought to be special to God and to revere him.

I will be right back ... and I'll demonstrate the gematria of the ascent of Elijah to heaven.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

May I refer you to my papers on academia.edu which details that. You can find a link to them on page 1 reply 6.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I will try to give you a more detailed answer later, but first a question....
If (as a Christian) one doesn't believe the account of Adam & Eve and their subsequent rebellion against Jehovah God as detailed in Genesis to be literal, exactly how does Jesus' sacrificing his life -- which according to text I must point out he was willing to do -- have any value? How is it a " ransom"?

(OK, two questions, sorry)