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Featured Spirit or Superstition?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Bethsheba Ashe, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. Bethsheba Ashe

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    In my new book [The Genesis Wheel ~ out 1st August] I argue that many of the so-called miracles and supernatural happenings in the Bible are not true accounts, but are there because of underlying gematria calculations the scribes were setting down. I write:

    "From the burning bush to the ascent of Elijah to heaven, all the really odd and supernatural narratives of the Bible that I have investigated have gematria behind them, and are explained by scribal motivation to compose a mathematical sum. While this may be upsetting to some people, I don’t think this is something that should cause anyone to lose their faith in the spirit of God ... There is a great difference between holding a belief in the Spirit, and in rank superstition. Why should a true personal relationship with the original divinity be predicated on cheap supernatural favor seeking rituals?"

    I think after reading my book, many people will be persuaded that the miracles and strange tales of the Bible were not intended to be read as factual accounts. It is not my intention to impact upon anyone's belief in God however. My question is:

    Could you retain your faith and belief in God without believing in the strange and miraculous accounts in the Bible? Is a belief in 'the spirit' of God behind everything enough for you?

    I look forward to your considered replies. :)
     
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  2. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    Given that some even to this day I am skeptical of, like a literal talking donkey, I might be fine.
     
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  3. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    I've often wondered since the bible is the reason people believe in a creator god, if the bible didn't exist would people still believe in a creator god or a completely different god all together.
     
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  4. Bethsheba Ashe

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    Many cultures have a creator deity. The Norse peoples had a primordial cow. Before the Bible the Sumerians knew Enlil, so I don't think the Bible is the cause of that belief, although it has shaped the way Abrahamic religions think of a creator God.
     
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  5. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    "underlying gematria calculations the scribes were setting down"
    Well at least you are aware of the sub concious. Yes the writings do have multiple views

    To calculate.

    We tend towards to quantify. The problem With that is we are dealing with qualities and quality. So i might role back to love. We can quantify it thus subjective limited we can say love ultimately is a quality and that isnt quantifiable.

    Now am i negating what you wrote! Nope not at all. Many drown in the unconscious and you seem fine. I might say well, if one person finds the bible meaningful because of what you have written. Thats more than i have managed! I hope you have great sucess in that regard.
     
    #5 David T, Jul 15, 2019
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  6. Bethsheba Ashe

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    Thank you for your wishes towards my success, but I don't understand what the subconscious has to do with this. The calculations are analysed objectively according to the scribal conventions of the time. No subconscious prompting is necessary.

    I have a couple of papers about biblical gematria on academia.edu if you are interesting in learning about that:

    The Gematria Substrate
    The Genesis Wheel Part I

    And there's a thread here about it too; Biblical Gematria
     
  7. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Sure we see what see with the text. The only thing objective is nature her self. No i pay close attention to her first. she is running the show not us.
    As such nature loves to hide in the open. What is fact what is fiction? Thats worthy of discussion. Why i have a degree in theology if ya want to talk objective nonsense i know it all. It is nonsense 99% but great at parties!
    All truth starts in nature not in the books and no, quantification is not fundemental, its thus subjective to qualities. Here a leaf lovely leaf! leaf-tailed-gecko.jpg
     
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  8. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    In the various mythologies laid down spanning recorded history, people have believed in about 3800 creator gods
     
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  9. Bethsheba Ashe

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    David, if I write:

    2 + 19 - 300 + 295 =

    then by mathematical convention the answer is 16. We cannot see what we want with the text and still get the right answer. Biblical gematria has similar mathematical and logical conventions.

    Nice Lizard/Leaf though. :)
     
  10. Bethsheba Ashe

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    Someone counted them all? lol. :)
     
  11. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    True but the god most everyone here believes in is the creator god which is only known of because of the bible.

    Which makes me think, if some here don't believe the stories in the bible, why believe in the god the bible teaches about?
     
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  12. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    All the 4200 with names and address but some were not creator gods.

    That of course omits the 33,000,000 hindu hindu gods
     
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  13. Bethsheba Ashe

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    I suppose that David would say it was because of subconscious archetypes, but personally I think everyone has a type of transcendental consciousness that dimly remembers its origin as a singular consciousness around the earth before there was life here and bodies to incarnate into. Science is actually catching up with religion on that score. The big Wow theory posits a moment of consciousness at the beginning of the Big Bang, and theoretically that would extend to there being a singular consciousness associated with the early earth itself if the physics is correct > energy to matter = consciousness*.
    ---------------------

    * Because the pre-material qualia of matter is complex and has structure.
     
    #13 Bethsheba Ashe, Jul 15, 2019
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  14. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Some read the quran, some the tanakh, all the same god.

    And some take their religion in different ways, not necessarily believing in the abrahamic god at all
     
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  15. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    I was explained that miracles introduced to enhance memorizing of events too. Bible was intended for many future generations and when event associated with a miracle it better remembered than just moral preaching.
     
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  16. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Well there ya go talk to my redheaded daughter!!! Lovely leaf eh.
    I keep saying keep quantifing as fundemental. We can quantify her oh sure. Is that correct? I know its not. I only really focus on the main topic god is love.not that hard. That cant be quanified and be true.



    signal-2018-10-29-212858.jpg
     
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  17. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    If someone doesn't believe the stories in the bible, why believe in the biblical god the stories talk about was my point.
     
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  18. Bethsheba Ashe

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    I hope she has a wonderful birthday party, David, and you're quite right, love is an absolute that cannot be quantified. I agree.
     
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  19. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I am not sure anyone does, other than belief in the quran tanakh and bible there is no reason why anyone would believe an the abrahamic god.
     
  20. Bethsheba Ashe

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    How is the biblical God different from God? We may believe in God no matter how different people from different cultures perceive divinity historically. In fact one could argue that a belief in God requires that we frame our beliefs according to the knowledge of our times in order for it to stay relevant to our species and in our own lives.
     
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