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spirit of antichrist is in the world today

kjw47

Well-Known Member
My, my, are you afraid to answer the question kjw47? Are you ashamed to admit you have believed a lie for so long?

According to the highlights in the quote, when did Jesus' presence begin?

If you don't want to give an honest, straight forward answer, just say so!



Rev 6--he receives his crown.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Stop twisting stuff. I never said Jehovah couldn't do it. I shared truth of what Gods written word teaches on that matter.
God's Word does not say that nobody can be resurrected to Heaven. All it says is that nobody got to Heaven BEFORE Jesus did. So, Think! After Jesus made the way for human souls to get there then the dead could be raised to it.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Acts of the Apostles 2:34 just means that nobody arrived in Heaven BEFORE Jesus did. Jesus didn't acquire Heaven's throne until he died. Then after that, the holy ones for God's will be done got their resurrection TO HEAVEN!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@kjw47 it is not so possible for you to admit the simple Bible truths because if you did, you would have to believe that those that you are calling Jesus true teachers aren't.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
All errors are not of the devil. What year was that said?

Not that it matters, but 1950. So, all error is not of the devil now, did your "real teachers" get new light on that? Funny, I couldn't find a correction on that teaching, in all the wt literature from 1950 thru 2015, was there a memo sent to the elders or something? Or does that mean, only the errors of Christendom are of the devil, and not your "real teachers"?

Every eye will see him come at Har-mageddon when he returns to the earth.

You're correct, everyone will see Him coming! But, according to your "real teachers" that's not true,

*** w07 3/15 p. 5 What Christ’s Coming Will Accomplish ***
With regard to Christ’s coming, the Bible says: “Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him.” (Revelation 1:7) People will not see him with their literal eyes. Since his ascension to heaven, Jesus is a spirit person “who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”—1 Timothy 6:16.

Your religion is confusing to say the least, isn't it kjw47? You say, every eye will see Him come, but your "real teachers", who teach "every utterance of God" says they won't literally see Him. Are you going to change your answer now?
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
This is how your "real teachers" interpret Revelation kjw47! Did you, or any witness out there, know that the TWO witnesses in Rev 11 were appointed as your "faithful and discrete slave"?

Yes they are the 2 witnesses. They changed many false teachings to truth, yet still only had error filled trinity translations to go by.

How does this fit in with your "anointed ones taking the lead" that were the two witnesses?

Revelation 11:12-13 (ESV Strong's) Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13 And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

It must really be awesome and a great honor to have found the "only true religion", with the only teachers that God talks to, with the only teachers chosen personally by Jesus Himself, having the only teachers that God AND Jesus completely trust, having the only teachers who are prophesied about in the Bible, I see now how you can be so arrogant and proud!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@kjw47 if you can prove by the Bible that any person before Jesus Christ can't be resurrected to Heaven I shall go back to giving the members of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses the benefit of the doubt.

I understand that before Jesus ascended to Heaven there was no human who ever did it. I believe that Jesus made the way there. Now I am saying that those who died before Jesus made the way there can be resurrected to it.
Instead of being resurrected to the Earth, they will be resurrected to Heaven.

Can you prove that I am wrong about that?
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Please just answer the question,

*** w79 6/15 pp. 22-23 par. 4 “The Dead in Christ Shall Rise First” ***
4 By his sacrificial death Jesus Christ bought back or redeemed all the human family who are dying “in Adam.” Hence, they all “belong to the Christ.” However, the resurrecting of even the first ones of the human dead must wait till after the “presence,” or parousia, of Jesus Christ begins. This official presence begins with his second coming. According to the “sign” that Jesus foretold and also according to certain Bible time measurements, his invisible “presence,” or parousia, began in autumn of 1914 C.E.—Matt. 24:3.

According to the highlighted parts of the quote, when did Jesus' PRESENCE begin?

According to the highlights in the quote, when did Jesus' presence begin?

If you don't want to give an honest, straight forward answer, just say so!

Rev 6--he receives his crown.

You just can't bring yourself to answer the question, can you kjw47? Is that post your admission to not wanting to answer the question truthfully?

According to the quote from your "real teachers" when did Jesus' presence begin? Read the quote and answer the question, please!
 

Rick B

Active Member
Premium Member
My, my, are you afraid to answer the question kjw47? Are you ashamed to admit you have believed a lie for so long?

According to the highlights in the quote, when did Jesus' presence begin?

If you don't want to give an honest, straight forward answer, just say so!

He has said so, over and over and over again. You and I both know, from all of our interactions with him, that he is incapable of honest, meaningful, direct, straight-forward answers.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Fact--Catholicism translated--kept in latin for about 1000 years after the councils were held. No one was allowed to read the bible except clergy all that time. ALL originals were gone by the time protesta
Again, the above simply does not directly relate to what I posted as I referred to accuracy of translation, so it seems to me that all you are doing is deflecting what I posted. .
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
--1914-- The firstfruits resurrected = The little flock( Luke 12:32)= the anointed, the bride of Christ= 144,000-Rev 14:3--all died after Jesus died. It began with the apostles.
First of all, how is it even possible that anyone here on Earth could possibly know that "the firstfruits resurrected"? Doesn't that sorta even seem to fail the smell taste?

Also, about the "144,000", which will show you why not understanding early Judaism and Jewish culture can lead to problems in translation.

During Jesus' time, there was no numerical way of directly writing "144,000" because the highest number was 1000, so in order to write "144,000" one had to do a combination of numbers. The combination that "works" is "twelve twelves thousands", which seems awkward but there were no word for "times" words then. Today we would write it "12 X 12 X 1000 = 144,000".

The number "12" is one of the numbers that also had a symbolic meaning, which was "completion" and was considered a "good number" because of that. Check and see how many different times "12" shows up in both the Jewish and Christian scriptures as evidence of this.

The number "1000", since it was the highest number that one could write directly, also stood for "great numbers". Nowadays, at least here in the States, we often use a "million", such as "Look outside, there must be a million birds out there!". No one expects that this number would be an actual counting of the birds, however.

So, what does this "twelve twelves thousands" probably mean symbolically therefore? The best guess is "completion upon completion and in great numbers", which makes much more sense than assuming that the 144,000 is an actual count after almost 2000 years since Jesus lived.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@kjw47 I understand that the Bible makes it very clear that when even a holy one of God died he did not go to Heaven.
The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses teaches that even in the resurrection anyone who had died before Jesus Christ did will not be granted entry to Heaven.
I am asking you to prove the teaching that only people who died after Jesus did will ever go to Heaven.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@kjw47 According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea....for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is not off-topic. To all the people who love God and served God before Jesus died and rose, the people who declare that they can never be in Heaven with Christ are anti-christ to those.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The challenge for you @kjw47, if you should choose to accept it, is to find out how the first governing body came to the conclusion that nobody who died before Jesus did, goes to Heaven and why every day since then they stay with that conclusion.

I understand that before Jesus had done what he did there was no real prospect for any life after death. It is what I believe the Bible teaches.

I am certain that the Bible does not teach that some people can never expect his or her resurrection to be to Heaven.

Since the Bible does not teach it, why does the governing body teach it?
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
God's Word does not say that nobody can be resurrected to Heaven. All it says is that nobody got to Heaven BEFORE Jesus did. So, Think! After Jesus made the way for human souls to get there then the dead could be raised to it.



The first resurrected was here at rev 6=1914.
 
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