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Speaking in tongues

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Surrealgurl, Sep 1, 2004.

  1. Surrealgurl

    Surrealgurl Member

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    Some Christians believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit. I'm interested in knowing what everyones opinion is on this. I have a few questions. (I might come up with more questions later...)

    1. Do you believe it's a sign of baptism in the Holy Spirit? Why or why not?

    2. Is it a real language (or languages)?

    3. Do other religions speak in tongues?

    4. What other explanations are there for it?
     
  2. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    I don't know a lot about it, but I have witnessed some of it. Some think it is a hysterical reaction. In other words some people get themselves into a real frenzy and is most likely not the Holy Spirit.
     
  3. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Well, I don't know much about it, and certainly have never witnessed it first hand. But being me, I would tend to be very skeptical that it was anything other than a self-induced fit.
     
  4. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    #1. Yes and No! Yes, without the Spirit of God, no-one gets any of the gifts.
    No, not all get the gift of tongues!
    #2. Someone with the gift of tongues, it is a real language of someone. Not an UnKnown tongue/precepts of man.
    #3. These gifts are from the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. So only given to those that are his.
    I do not have the gift of tongues.
     
  5. Mr Spinkles

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    Well I've never witnessed this, but I did see something interesting in the first few days of college.

    There was this hypnotist who came and hypnotized a bunch of the freshmen in the audience. He told this one girl that when she woke up, she would be an alien speaking another language. She started babbling words that really did sound like some alien language...I was pretty amazed, as was the audience.
     
  6. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    1 Corinthians 12:10: Speaking in tongues, Numbered among the manifestational gifts of the holy spirit.

    1 Corinthians 12:28: One gift among many different gifts and callings

    1 Cor 13:1: Tongues of men or angels, useless without love

    1 Cor 14:2: The one who speaks in tongues, speaks not to men, but to God.

    1 Cor 14:4 He who speaks in tongues edifies himself

    1 Cor 14:5 Paul wants us all to speak in tongues, but more to prophecy unless there is interpretation.

    1 Cor 14:6-12: The need for interpretation if tongues is used among the body of Christ

    1 Cor 14:18-19: Paul is thankful that he speaks in tongues more than any of the rest of the Corinthians, but among the body of Christ he would rather speak a language all can understand.

    1 Cor 14:27: There should be order. Two, or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret when among the body of Christ.

    1 Cor 14:28: In public worship, if there is no one to interpret the tongues, the gift should not be exercised publicly. (Perfect chance to actually know if you're among real true Christians)

    1 Cor 14:39-40: Desire to prophesy, but all things should be done decently and in order.

    Speaking in Tongues is an actual foreign language. Tongues is also a prayer language, its actually perfect prayer. Some receive this gift spontaneously others receive as an act of the will. In receiving all gifts, one must respond in obedience to to the prompting of the holy spirit, Acts 2:4

    It is not the only sign that one is filled with the spirit from God. It simply is one among many. It is a useful gift for prayer and communication with God, available to all his Sons. The purpose of this gift is to edify up the person but ultimately for the edifying of the body of Christ. It can be an act of the will by opening the mouth and speaking in words you do not know at the prompting of the spirit of God within a true son of God. It isn't a feeling at all but God works in the power when one obeys. Interpretation is a bit more complex of a matter I will not discuss because its for the body of christ and many people have been hurt because of misusing and misunderstanding this gift. If you ever hear a bunch of self proclaimed christians all speaking in tongues together it is not of God. The gift is suppose to be used with extreme order rather than confusing. God is not the author of confusion, satan however is.

    Ron- Yes all true christians can recieve the gift of tongues. But I suppose that is dependant on the "mature level, of spiritual understanding".

    1. Yes and No. Paul, who spoke in tongues very much, did it as an act of will, not at his baptism in the holy spirit.

    2. Yes it is a language of men or it is a language of the angels (this includes devil spirits)

    3. Satanic religions can so I would agree other "religions" can.
     
  7. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Right! All True Christians can speak in tongues. This certainly is a litmus test!
    "When you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with B.S."
    You're of the Way! Not Christian! So, Ron you can't speak in tongues! HOG WASH!
     
  8. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    lol I don't affiliate myself with any religion or denomination maybe I should say all true christians "should" be able to speak in tongues. but really, why do you think not everyone is given the gift of tongues? I'm curious... didn't paul speak in tongues from an act of will? the other apostles did it spontaniously however Paul did not, and Paul was the guy given the revelation. So why do you think you can't? Just because you might be 52 years old, you can still be just a babe in christ hehe.
     
  9. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    There are many gifts of the spirit, not anyone possess all all of them. If they did they would surely boast the fact at some time and put to shame one who is a foot.
     
  10. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    lol. mr. sprinkles. even i can speak in alien. it would be more believable if the hypnotist made her speak a shanghai dialect of mandarin.
     
  11. Hope

    Hope Princesinha

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    I have witnessed people speaking in tongues. It is quite an intriguing experience! I myself cannot speak in tongues, though I am a Christian, and I don't believe speaking in tongues makes you somehow more special than other Christians. It is a gift, and different people have different gifts. Just because I do not speak in tongues does not mean I am any less spiritual than someone who does. I have friends who can speak in tongues, and they never looked down on me because I couldn't speak in tongues.

    I also have witnessed someone who was demon-possessed (a truly frightening experience!), and while she was possessed she spoke in some unknown language. Either way, my personal belief is that tongues are usually a language from the spiritual realm.
     
  12. Mr Spinkles

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    Of course, I didn't mean she was speaking an actual alien language...my point was that when the brain is in certain states, people can speak in something that sounds like another language. Speaking in tongues can easily be tested by recording the session and having it analyzed by linguists, but few are willing to have any recordings analyzed (I wonder why :D )
     
  13. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Hello all,

    My opinion is that the grace of speaking in tongues has been confused somewhere down the line.

    To speak in tongues, as I find it in Scripture is to speak another human language that was not know to the person before the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

    Filled with the Holy Spirit, the faithful were able to communicate with the Cretes and Arabians in their own language.
    The "speaking in tongues" that I have seen in the Protestant church has been a hodge podge of unitelligible grunts, groans, screams, and moanings......... not a language of this earth........
    When questioned about this practice, a member of the congregation told me that it was the Holy Ghost speaking and that humans could not understand the language.

    Although I do not doubt their personal devotion to God, I do agree with some here that this "gift of tongues" is no more than a self-induced altered menal state....... not the Holy Spirit.

    1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

    The tongues were meant to be interpreted by someone else, so that the group could benefit from the teaching.

    I have found no groups that can speak in the "tongue of angels" and have someone interpret it......... I would bet that most of these are false tongues....

    but what do I know? :)

    Peace,
    Scott
     
  14. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    There Ya Go!
    Again, I agree with the Catholic.
     
  15. Surrealgurl

    Surrealgurl Member

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    I agree with Scott. According to those verses, it seems very clear what tongues is supposed to be used for. Do the protestants ignore those few Bible verses? I don't see how it could be interpreted any differently...
     
  16. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Please don't lump all Protestants together, I am one and while having never seen anyone start talking gibberish I find the idea rediculous as well.

    I have always viewed speaking in tongues as having the ability to speak languages one could not speak before. I cannot speak Chinese, if all of the sudden I could speak fluent Chinese that would be the gift of tongues.

    Also, while I doubt

    is speaking in tounge, it may happen that the language spoken is a dead one that very few people know, or one that has been forgotten by humanity completley.
     
  17. Surrealgurl

    Surrealgurl Member

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    Oops! Mister Emu, I'm sorry, I don't know why in the world I typed "protestant" there. Perhaps I should have typed "some charismatics". Sorry! :eek:
     
  18. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    No need to be sorry, I understand that some of us(and I use that term very loosely) have some pretty strange ideas.(My mother going so far as to say Catholicism was not the same religion :eek: )

    I just ask that in the future when you refer to a group of people try to leave room for exception :)
     
  19. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    It's not a language. In linguistic studies made of various glossolalias none of them showed signs of a structure that could be called language, although they did share some common elements.

    Here is one particular assessment taken from a Wikipedia article, which reflects the consensus of these studies.

    Linguistics of Pentecostal glossolalia
    William J. Samarin, a linguist from the University of Toronto, published a thorough assessment of Pentecostal glossolalia that became a classic work on its linguistic characteristics.[3] His assessment was based on a large sample of glossolalia recorded in public and private Christian meetings in Italy, Holland, Jamaica, Canada and the USA over the course of five years; his wide range included the Puerto Ricans of the Bronx, the Snake Handlers of the Appalachians, and Russian Molokan in Los Angeles.

    Samarin found that glossolalic speech does resemble human language in some respects. The speaker uses accent, rhythm, intonation and pauses to break up the speech into distinct units. Each unit is itself made up of syllables, the syllables being formed from consonants and vowels taken from a language known to the speaker.
    It is verbal behavior that consists of using a certain number of consonants and vowels[...]in a limited number of syllables that in turn are organized into larger units that are taken apart and rearranged pseudogrammatically[...]with variations in pitch, volume, speed and intensity.[4]

    [Glossolalia] consists of strings of syllables, made up of sounds taken from all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but emerging nevertheless as word-like and sentence-like units because of realistic, language-like rhythm and melody.[5]
    That the sounds are taken from the set of sounds already known to the speaker is confirmed by others: Felicitas Goodman found that the speech of glossolalists reflected the patterns of speech of the speaker's native language.[6]

    Samarin found that the resemblance to human language was merely on the surface, and so concluded that glossolalia is "only a facade of language".[7] He reached this conclusion because the syllable string did not form words, the stream of speech was not internally organised, and– most importantly of all– there was no systematic relationship between units of speech and concepts. Humans use language to communicate, but glossolalia does not. Therefore he concluded that glossolalia is not "a specimen of human language because it is neither internally organized nor systematically related to the world man perceives".[7]

    On the basis of his linguistic analysis, Samarin defined Pentecostal glossolalia as "meaningless but phonologically structured human utterance,

    In 2006, the brains of a group of individuals were scanned while they were speaking in tongues. Activity in the language centers of the brain decreased, while activity in the emotional centers of the brain increased. Activity in the area of control decreased, which corresponds with the reported experience of loss of control. There were no changes in any language areas, suggesting that glossolalia is not associated with usual language function.[10][11][12] Other brain wave studies have also found that brain activity alters in glossolalia.[13]

    Learned behaviour
    The material explanation arrived at by a number of studies is that glossolalia is "learned behavior".[15][19] What is taught is the ability to produce language-like speech. This is only a partial explanation, but it is a part that has withstood much testing. It is possible to train novices to produce glossolalic speech. One experiment with 60 undergraduates found that 20% succeeded after merely listening to a 60-second sample, and 70% succeeded after training:"

    (source: ibid)

     
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  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    WOW!!! This thread is old! I haven't seen some of these names in a long time.
    Speaking in tongues can be explained in a number of ways. Probably the most conventional is a combination of group thought and the placebo effect. It is generally expected among the group that the holy ghost will possess the person and cause him/her to speak in tongues.
    Now, I also believe that it is the power of the group that does give life to holy ghost, which is the feeling that overcomes them as they speak in tongues. As a placebo it would mean that an individual is expecting it, so they will do it, but as a group they are channeling energy into what they believe, which is what possesses them.
     
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