Speaking in tongues....

[Barrackubus]

Many pentecostal sects claim that the evidence of recieving the holy ghost is speaking in tongues (glossalialia) and this tradition is passed to every believer who recieves this gift.
Where in the scripture does it tell us every.person who recieves the holy.ghost must speak.in this heavenly language???

 

[fallingblood]

Many pentecostal sects claim that the evidence of recieving the holy ghost is speaking in tongues (glossalialia) and this tradition is passed to every believer who recieves this gift.
Where in the scripture does it tell us every.person who recieves the holy.ghost must speak.in this heavenly language???

Not everyone filled with the Holy Spirit believe they can speak in tongues. But Paul does speak of this such as in 1 Corinthians 12:4-12, 12:27-31 and elsewhere. If I recall, there are over 30 passages that actually speak of this.

 

[Barrackubus]

I know the passages of which a you speak, being a former united pentecostal church evangelist. Tongues was all a pentecostal went to church for. And it was preached according to Acts 2:38 and the events of that day, that every believer speaks with tongues. But the Bible doesn't support such a claim.
And when it comes to.tongues there are different variations on the exact meaning even in the new testament.
The understanding I have gathered is that every man heard the other tongue speakers in their own language.
There are also some order issues concerning speaking in tongues in church and Paul was rather direct about keeping order....

 

[fallingblood]

I know the passages of which a you speak, being a former united pentecostal church evangelist. Tongues was all a pentecostal went to church for. And it was preached according to Acts 2:38 and the events of that day, that every believer speaks with tongues. But the Bible doesn't support such a claim.
And when it comes to.tongues there are different variations on the exact meaning even in the new testament.
The understanding I have gathered is that every man heard the other tongue speakers in their own language.
There are also some order issues concerning speaking in tongues in church and Paul was rather direct about keeping order....

Acts isn't the only place though. When Paul speaks of the speaking of tongues, it is unintelligible, as one would see in a pentecostal church. Paul definitely did seek to limit it, as it caused problems as some were claiming it was the gift, and making way too much about it. But even Paul stated that he spoke in tongues.

Acts does make the claim that speaking in tongues was where people of every language was hearing intelligible speech, and that is something that Paul differs on.

 

[Barrackubus]

Interestingly as you read the scripture and the much spoke about Comforter that was alledgedly appeared in the upper room, and the continuing doctrine not only found in the book of Acts, and much of the Pauline apostles. We have a doctrine of spiritual inegregation that one component integrates themselves into a an all powerful deity.
The struggle to accomplish this effectively is our humansim, our natural and 'sinful' ways honestly keeos us from being blessed. Or having the true power to move mountains. 'let me decrease do that he may increase.' It is us that prevents us from accomplishing even greater works than what it is we already do. Because it is not his will, that the seed of himself to be begging bread. Or that he owns a cattle on a thousand hills. This is interesting to me, more specific the human factor or the divine blockage that 'prevents' me from truely being blessed.
As a person of the magickal community, and what ever umbrella each of us that would he considered of the spiritual sciences however way each of them interpret whether, and myself as a Thelemiye have to ask, why should I have to change myself in order to have a good relationship with a deity.
The deity, if exsisting knows of me. My environment my struggles. Why do I have to.change anything for he is the one responsible for my circumstances, for if 'he' truely is then he created them. I shouldn't feel.compelled to repent or turn away from my human nature, it is natural to be human. Every thing we desire or want is hardwired into or DNA and our intents are only products of our environment and genetics. And it is said we are created......
As.far as being blessed, I am.blessed , I know how to get it done, without begging or pleading for some type of mysterious will to always be mindful of. There is no.god but man, and the only will that matters is his, the only sin is restriction. To deprive yourself is emotionally painful. How is that healthy?
But the tongues, was a sign of the person being totally integrated. Where their will is being the will of the being intregrated with them, or a form of possession, not my will but thy will. Spiritual slavery....

 

[atpollard]

It seems that it has been a while since anyone posted in the Pentacostal DIR area.
Allow me to change that.

First, I would claim a right to speak as a Pentacostal by virtue of being an elder and teacher in a Pentacostal Church.
I point this out, not as an attempt to establish some special authority, but because I manifest none of the traditional 'gifts' that are so highly valued among Pentacostals.
No speaking in tongues.
No special gift of healing.
I don't dance.
(Heck, I even struggle to lift my hands above my waist. )
... and yet, those who do manifest such gifts have chosen to honor me by appointing me an Elder in the Church.

So clearly, I do not believe that everyone speaks in tongues ... nor does the congregation of New Beginnings Life Center in Spring Hill, Florida.

Let me offer a deeply personal, and I believe Biblicaly sound, perspective on the Gift of Tongues ...
Each and every gift of the Holy Spirit is given for the same purpose ... To build up the Body of believers and to glorify God. Too often Tongues appears to glorify the speaker and disrupt the body. This is true of any and every so called gift. I say 'so called' because any gift that is not building up the body and/or bringing glory to God ... IS NOT FROM GOD.

However, as someone who does not speak in tongues, I am deeply and personally indebted to the gift of tongues for my salvation. Once upon a time, I was an athiest. It was an encounter with a Catholic Charasmatic fellowship that led me to the initial conclusion that 'you people are totally nuts and need your meds adjusted'. However, it was your deep personal faith and passion that set you apart from the dead services that passed for worship at most large mainline denominational churches that I had encountered. The Charismata (flashy gifts of the Holy Spirit) is what captured my attention and suggested to me that Christianity might be more than empty moral B.S.

So for me, the gift of Tongues is not for everyone, and the gift of tongues is not 'everything' ... but the Gift of Tongues is not nothing. The important thing is to remember, in everything, to give God the glory.
YMMV

 

[David1967]

Many pentecostal sects claim that the evidence of recieving the holy ghost is speaking in tongues (glossalialia) and this tradition is passed to every believer who recieves this gift.
Where in the scripture does it tell us every.person who recieves the holy.ghost must speak.in this heavenly language???

Simple. It doesn't.

 

[COGTHW]

Simple. It doesn't.

Mark 16:17 'And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;' ; Every believer in the Scriptures spoke in tongues.

 

[David1967]

Mark 16:17 'And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;' ; Every believer in the Scriptures spoke in tongues.

Depends on what is defined by tongues. The incoherent gibberish that is commonly practiced today that and Paul warned against, that has more in common with the voodoo practitioner possessed by the Loa, or that on the day of Pentecost where everyone heard in their own language? And no, not every believer speaks in tongues. That's just silly.

 

[COGTHW]

Depends on what is defined by tongues. The incoherent gibberish that is commonly practiced today that and Paul warned against, that has more in common with the voodoo practitioner possessed by the Loa, or that on the day of Pentecost where everyone heard in their own language? And no, not every believer speaks in tongues. That's just silly.

Jesus said every believer. Paul wrote what Jesus said. 1 Corinthians 14:22 'Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.' ; Tongues is not for you to understand but for God. ; 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.' Every true believer spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Ghost.

 

[David1967]

Jesus said every believer. Paul wrote what Jesus said. 1 Corinthians 14:22 'Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.' ; Tongues is not for you to understand but for God. ; 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.' Every true believer spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Ghost.

Not every believer. doesn't say that anywhere. And again ,define tongues as per my question above. And BTW, welcome to RF.

 

[COGTHW]

Not every believer. doesn't say that anywhere. And again ,define tongues as per my question above. And BTW, welcome to RF.

New tongues = a tongue that was never learned

Unknown tongues = tongues that man can't interpret ( Unless bless to by God )

Other tongues = foreign to man
That's what the Scriptures call tongues.
Every believer in the Scriptures spoke in tongues.
Acts 2:4 'And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.'

 

[David1967]

New tongues = a tongue that was never learned

Unknown tongues = tongues that man can't interpret ( Unless bless to by God )

Other tongues = foreign to man
That's what the Scriptures call tongues.
Every believer in the Scriptures spoke in tongues.
Acts 2:4 'And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.'

At Pentecost the tongues weren't foreign to man. Everyone heard in their own language. And your reference to all believers speaking in tongues was talking about those present ,not all believers everywhere. Not every believer is Pentecostal. I wont deny that there was tongues in the bible, I just do not believe that the gibberish common today was what Paul had in mind when he spoke of the tongues of angels. The modern tongue movement is a Johnny come lately movement scarcely more than 100 years old. Link below for some history ;
http://www.the-highway.com/tongues_Dollar.html

 

[COGTHW]

At Pentecost the tongues weren't foreign to man. Everyone heard in their own language. And your reference to all believers speaking in tongues was talking about those present ,not all believers everywhere. Not every believer is Pentecostal. I wont deny that there was tongues in the bible, I just do not believe that the gibberish common today was what Paul had in mind when he spoke of the tongues of angels. The modern tongue movement is a Johnny come lately movement scarcely more than 100 years old. Link below for some history ;
http://www.the-highway.com/tongues_Dollar.html

Sir the bible says so. Show scriptures ( after Christ left earth ) that people didn't speak in tongues. God said He will do it. 11 'For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.' Isaiah 28:11

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

 

[David1967]

Sir the bible says so. Show scriptures ( after Christ left earth ) that people didn't speak in tongues. God said He will do it. 11 'For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.' Isaiah 28:11

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Old testament doesn't apply hear. Just to be clear. I am not disputing that tongues is talked about in the NT. What I would disagree with you about is that tongues were not and are not spoken by all believers, it is a spiritual gift given to some. And two, Is what we see today in the modern tongues movement the same as experienced by some first century churches. IMHO, I don't think so. Just so you know, My wife is a tongue talking Pentecostal , so this has been a discussion that we have put aside so as not to be contentious.

 

[COGTHW]

Old testament doesn't apply hear. Just to be clear. I am not disputing that tongues is talked about in the NT. What I would disagree with you about is that tongues were not and are not spoken by all believers, it is a spiritual gift given to some. And two, Is what we see today in the modern tongues movement the same as experienced by some first century churches. IMHO, I don't think so. Just so you know, My wife is a tongue talking Pentecostal , so this has been a discussion that we have put aside so as not to be contentious.

Scriptures. Search the scriptures. In them you will find life.

 

[David1967]

Sir the bible says so. Show scriptures ( after Christ left earth ) that people didn't speak in tongues. God said He will do it. 11 'For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.' Isaiah 28:11

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Also this ,1 Corinthians, 14 speaks of spiritual gifts and does not say anything about everyone speaking in tongues.

 

[David1967]

Scriptures. Search the scriptures. In them you will find life.

Uh, yeah. I actually have read the Bible. Not being facetious. I know you don't know me. Just saying that I am not a complete novice concerning scripture ,just not from a Pentecostal background. May I ask, are you from a oneness Pentecostal denomination? Respectfully

 

[COGTHW]

Uh, yeah. I actually have read the Bible. Not being facetious. I know you don't know me. Just saying that I am not a complete novice concerning scripture ,just not from a Pentecostal background. May I ask, are you from a oneness Pentecostal denomination? Respectfully

No I am not, I'm from a Oneness Holy church. God said be ye holy. Not denomination. Denominations is man made stuff. God said be ye holy. 1 Peter 1:16 "For it is written, be ye holy ; for I am holy."

 

[David1967]

No I am not, I'm from a Oneness Holy church. God said be ye holy. Not denomination. Denominations is man made stuff. God said be ye holy. 1 Peter 1:16 "For it is written, be ye holy ; for I am holy."

OK, gotcha . I am familiar with your faith. This gives me some reference for future discussions. And yes, I agree with you that denominations are man made. I was just using that term for reference. Again, welcome to RF. Enjoy yourself and don't take things too personal.