Speaking in Tongues

[Jacksnyte]

So, I am curious to hear everyones ideas on the phenomenon of speaking in tongues. Growing up, I saw this happen in several different circumstances, from visiting at my cousin's Pentacostal church, to watching Robert Tilton on television.
[youtube]bU9lZD7qB7s[/youtube]
YouTube - That's Singing in Tongues



I have some definite opinions on the subject, and I would like to hear others opinions as well.

 

[Jacksnyte]

:sleep:

 

[Valjean]

It's ecstatic gibberish.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Gibberish is being kind.

 

[Jacksnyte]

I agree. It also IMO, is un-biblical. The supposed miracle of pentecost allowed the christian apostles to speak to a crowd who did not speak the same language and be understood by them as if they had a babelfish in their ear. It doesn't say anything about spewing gibberish that someone had to "interperet".
Anyone agree? Disagree?

 

[Valjean]

It was the miracle of the loaves and babelfishes!

 

[Jacksnyte]

It was the miracle of the loaves and babelfishes!

:jester5:

 

[Jacksnyte]

But aren't there any christians who speak in tongues that might care to help us understand the practice, and maybe give us a better idea of the concept behind it?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Strangely, when people who speak in tongues babble away, they generally make just as much sense when they use actual words.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Strangely, when people who speak in tongues babble away, they generally make just as much sense when they use actual words.

:cover:

 

[bobhikes]

I agree. It also IMO, is un-biblical. The supposed miracle of pentecost allowed the christian apostles to speak to a crowd who did not speak the same language and be understood by them as if they had a babelfish in their ear. It doesn't say anything about spewing gibberish that someone had to "interperet".
Anyone agree? Disagree?

I actually believe there is something to being able to speak to a crowd of multiple languages and being understood by all.

1st example
Children and parents of a second language.
My Friend and my own kids
My friends mother was Italian she never spoke a word of English He was born in the US and never spoke a word of Italian(Went to Italy and could not understand anyone), yet mother and son were always able to communicate.

My Wife spanish my kids english yet she will talk to them in spanish and they will understand. My kids can not understand her parents or siblings but her they have no problem understanding her.

This is probably from a close relationship and being able to read the person but it allows for it to happen with others.

2nd example

My wife and a friend,

My wife worked for a vietnamese person. His mother and her get along great. She hasn't worked for him in 15 years yet the mother and my wife see each other a few times a year. The weird thing is my wife speaks to her in spanish and she speaks to my wife in vietnamese neither speak or understand the others language. The son and myself are amazed with the two talking. I understand neither but the son understands his mom. The conversation amazes him.

My guess is that some how they are picking up on what each is saying by expressions and emotion. Yet to converse as fluently as they do you couldn't believe it.

3rd example
My wife and I

I spoke no spanish and my wife little english yet in 3 months we fell in love and were married. It took over a year before my wife and family could communicate. I was always translating. I could understand her and she me but we did not speak the same language as my family would attest to. It took me many more years before I could speak with her family.

I could only say that I wanted to understand her and that is probably what caused me to understand her.

I believe we have an inate ablilty to learn and speak languages. I think it is probably hard work to use it and we get lazy so we just don't use it. When we need to it is there.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”
26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.

so there is scriptural reasons for these people to assume that what they are doing is godly, however....

Strangely, when people who speak in tongues babble away, they generally make just as much sense when they use actual words.

=)

 

[Civil Shephard]

So, I am curious to hear everyones ideas on the phenomenon of speaking in tongues. Growing up, I saw this happen in several different circumstances, from visiting at my cousin's Pentacostal church, to watching Robert Tilton on television.
I have some definite opinions on the subject, and I would like to hear others opinions as well.

You know... I doubted tongues as until the day I got an interpretation for a tongue in a Pentecostal Church and another lady gave the interpretation and it was the exact same as I'd heard in my mind. I remember the lady speaking in tongues seemed all emotion and gibberish to me, I was 18ish I believe... anywho she kept saying the same string of syllables over and over for about 45 seconds to a minute. But I asked God in my mind if those words actually had an interpretation and the answer I got was the same as another lady spoke out as the interpretation. I was profoundly moved by this experience and went and told the interpreter what had come to me before she gave the interpretation and she thanked me saying that she feared she had been in the flesh and not the spirit.

Well... I'm 46 years old now and God is my witness that tongues have literally saved my posterior in a few situations. I think that as Paul says in the love chapter 1 Corinthians 13 that tongues are a limited gift and love is the best gift. However I lived to see a 20 year old man sing in tongues and stop a gang of West Side Los Angeles Crips from beating and perhaps killing him over a mis-understanding. That young man was so scared that he hit what I'm sure are the highest notes humanly possible. The gang simply turned around and walked the other way...

No... it's not all gibberish but I believe Paul is quite correct when he says tongues are a sign for unbelievers while prophecy is a sign for believers. Well... let me quote Paul 1 Corinthians 14

22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. 23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. 25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

And I'm here to tell you that when I've seen and heard an unbeliever come around me and other believing friends and say something about God being among us there's just no warmer fuzzy on earth. (OK OK my dad the atheist made me read Transactional Analysis when I was 10) I mean we all have something we're dealing with in our hearts and I feel that God in Man is one way our Creator speaks to and through each one of us. Yes... even many of you seemingly die hard atheist have called me on my nonsense and encouraged what was relevant and effective in me.

But tongues interpreted are prophecy and I've seen the spirit of our creator prophesies that it was not yet my time on a few occasions. But I'll probably never ever hit another high C again.

 

[Jacksnyte]

You know... I doubted tongues as until the day I got an interpretation for a tongue in a Pentecostal Church and another lady gave the interpretation and it was the exact same as I'd heard in my mind. I remember the lady speaking in tongues seemed all emotion and gibberish to me, I was 18ish I believe... anywho she kept saying the same string of syllables over and over for about 45 seconds to a minute. But I asked God in my mind if those words actually had an interpretation and the answer I got was the same as another lady spoke out as the interpretation. I was profoundly moved by this experience and went and told the interpreter what had come to me before she gave the interpretation and she thanked me saying that she feared she had been in the flesh and not the spirit.

Well... I'm 46 years old now and God is my witness that tongues have literally saved my posterior in a few situations. I think that as Paul says in the love chapter 1 Corinthians 13 that tongues are a limited gift and love is the best gift. However I lived to see a 20 year old man sing in tongues and stop a gang of West Side Los Angeles Crips from beating and perhaps killing him over a mis-understanding. That young man was so scared that he hit what I'm sure are the highest notes humanly possible. The gang simply turned around and walked the other way...

No... it's not all gibberish but I believe Paul is quite correct when he says tongues are a sign for unbelievers while prophecy is a sign for believers. Well... let me quote Paul 1 Corinthians 14



And I'm here to tell you that when I've seen and heard an unbeliever come around me and other believing friends and say something about God being among us there's just no warmer fuzzy on earth. (OK OK my dad the atheist made me read Transactional Analysis when I was 10) I mean we all have something we're dealing with in our hearts and I feel that God in Man is one way our Creator speaks to and through each one of us. Yes... even many of you seemingly die hard atheist have called me on my nonsense and encouraged what was relevant and effective in me.

But tongues interpreted are prophecy and I've seen the spirit of our creator prophesies that it was not yet my time on a few occasions. But I'll probably never ever hit another high C again.

You see, here is my problem: in the New Testament, the gift of tongues made them more intelligible to everyone present, not less intelligible. I suspect that the practice of speaking in tongues as practiced by Pentecostals and Charismatics etc., has a lot more in common with the oracle at Delphi, and various Vodun sects.
Here is a quote from the New Testament that is the primary basis for the whole idea:

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.[5]
​

While those on whom the Spirit had descended were speaking in tongues, the disciple Peter stood up with the eleven and proclaimed to the crowd that this event was the fulfillment of the prophecy ("I will pour out my spirit") inJoel 2:28-29: Acts 2:41 reports: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
I think that all these Christians who claim to be speaking in tongues as the apostles did are doing something else entirely!

 

[Civil Shephard]

Hey Jacksynt,

Well to be sure you're not looking at all NT scripture on tongues. I have heard of missionaries giving tongues in the last few decades that were in the tongue of some tribe or other but I've also seen tongues used as a sort of prayer language that was an individual experience. Paul talks to that individual use of tongues in 1 Cor 14. At first I felt very much as you do that there had to be an outwardly practical use of tongues but experience has taught me that tongues are a great gift for when I've found myself in highly stressful situations whether personal, professional or life-or-deathical.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Hey Jacksynt,

Well to be sure you're not looking at all NT scripture on tongues. I have heard of missionaries giving tongues in the last few decades that were in the tongue of some tribe or other but I've also seen tongues used as a sort of prayer language that was an individual experience. Paul talks to that individual use of tongues in 1 Cor 14. At first I felt very much as you do that there had to be an outwardly practical use of tongues but experience has taught me that tongues are a great gift for when I've found myself in highly stressful situations whether personal, professional or life-or-deathical.

In Chaos Magick, we practice something that sounds very similar, only we call it glossolalia. You can find this practice in a variety of cultures around the world, very few of them Christian. It also very closely resembles participants in a Voodoo ceremony being ridden by the Loa; they often utter a string of syllables unintelligible as language.
My point is that from what I glean from biblical text, the gift of tongues should make one better understood by all, and should negate the need for any kind of "translator".

 

[Civil Shephard]

In Chaos Magick, we practice something that sounds very similar, only we call it glossolalia. You can find this practice in a variety of cultures around the world, very few of them Christian. It also very closely resembles participants in a Voodoo ceremony being ridden by the Loa; they often utter a string of syllables unintelligible as language.
My point is that from what I glean from biblical text, the gift of tongues should make one better understood by all, and should negate the need for any kind of "translator".

You know... that interest me because I find that sometimes I've wondered at spiritual occurrences in my life. I just read a sci-fi novel called "Snow Crash" and found it fascinating and somewhat related to this very subject. The Tower of Babel and a dead language and all that. However... and this is a big however to me... the proof is in the pudding and I find that power in practice makes for no better or practical understanding of well... just about everything. I'm glad I wrestled with and experimented with tongues as a 16 to 18 year old and reached a general conclusion that it's a limited spiritual gift to be practiced on an as needed basis with the express purpose of pleasing God in some way that is loving and kind and pure. But I've seen many a flim flam with tongues and caught myself a time or too skirting the edge of rebelliousness with a gibberish and unfaithful motive. And I conclude that motive is always to be judged by self.... when I can't fathom my own motive than I generally cease and desist.

I found that the one and only church I went to that practiced tongues and interpretation of tongues as described in 1 Corinthians 12 thru 14 happened from about 1981 to 1984 in a small midwestern town. I've no romanced memories of it save that most folks in that pentecostal church were always more than a little concerned that they were speaking in the Spirit of God over and above all fleshly motivation.... they wanted to please God. I've not experienced a group of humans like them since save for a Calvary Chapel that was impressive in the form of a friendly unity based on good intelligent scriptural conversations and not so much focus on spiritual gifts.

Jacksynte, Chaos majic...glossalalia? I googled them but if you could pm me a link or if there is a thread... thanks.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Well, here's the Wikipedia article:

Glossolalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[javajo]

Church fathers of the 2nd century said the tongues passages in 1 Corinthians were obscure to them, for tongues had ceased. Whenever tongues were used, the language was a real known language, not nonsense syllables, and when the NT and God's revelation to man was complete "That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works," and the prophecy to unbelieving Jews was fulfilled that hearing they would not understand, "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not," they ceased. The apostles could lay hands on a man and pass this gift down, but that was as far as it went. That is history. What passes for tongues today is not what it was back then. People forget Acts is a transitional book, the Holy Spirit came down to the Jewish believers at Pentecost, with tongues,then vertically so to speak to the gentiles and to some (Samaritan I believe) disciples of John, both again with tongues as a witness to those present. Thus the Holy Spirit was available to everyone, Jew and Gentile alike. Along with tongues, the gift of knowledge, interpretation, signs, miracles and healing as the apostles performed them ceased once they confirmed what the apostles preached about Jesus was true and the canon was complete. We still have miracles and people still get miraculously healed, but not by so called "faith healers". The more one studies some modern day faith healers like Benny Hinn, the more one will see through it. Hinn said he went through one hospital and healed everyone there, but when the news came to inquire, the nurse just said, "Benny who?"

 

[Civil Shephard]

Church fathers of the 2nd century said the tongues passages in 1 Corinthians were obscure to them, for tongues had ceased. Whenever tongues were used, the language was a real known language, not nonsense syllables, and when the NT and God's revelation to man was complete "That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works," and the prophecy to unbelieving Jews was fulfilled that hearing they would not understand, "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not," they ceased. The apostles could lay hands on a man and pass this gift down, but that was as far as it went. That is history. What passes for tongues today is not what it was back then. People forget Acts is a transitional book, the Holy Spirit came down to the Jewish believers at Pentecost, with tongues,then vertically so to speak to the gentiles and to some (Samaritan I believe) disciples of John, both again with tongues as a witness to those present. Thus the Holy Spirit was available to everyone, Jew and Gentile alike. Along with tongues, the gift of knowledge, interpretation, signs, miracles and healing as the apostles performed them ceased once they confirmed what the apostles preached about Jesus was true and the canon was complete. We still have miracles and people still get miraculously healed, but not by so called "faith healers". The more one studies some modern day faith healers like Benny Hinn, the more one will see through it. Hinn said he went through one hospital and healed everyone there, but when the news came to inquire, the nurse just said, "Benny who?"

I love it... Benny Who?

I think what got me is the part in Acts where Peter preaches to the house of Cornelius and they all began speaking in tongues spontaneously which I've heard testimony to that affect from a few people saying it happened to them when the believed for the first time someones witness of Christ. What was the need of tongues at Cornelius house besides being a gift of the Holy Spirit by faith?

I think that for my part gifts of the Spirit have replaced the need to focus prophecy through one person in that Christ works in the body instead of picking out an Elijah or a Moses to lead. The body of Christ to me has become a greater focus showing Gods love by group actions and therefore reducing the need for focused leadership and exalted positions. As Moses told Joshua after Joshua complained that some elders were prophesying "I would that ye were all prophets!"

I thank God sometimes that I no longer want to rule the world or become the next great revivalist or to be that end times prophet. Those fantasies at one time had me tripping all over the place thinking that God was trying to force me into being a great leader by deep revelations.

Now I'm just a Civil Shephard... a forum name I picked so I'd remember to be civil and allow the Shepherd of my soul to keep me thus. Now I'm a poet not a prophet and even my tongues sound poetic and I when I do sing in a field to myself in tongues I get poetic interpretations that simmer me down or enlighten me as I commune with my God in the Spirit. It's been awhile since I've done that though... I'll be honest and say that I'm not 100% on the gift of tongues. So I don't preach it or advise it... I just share sometimes that it's what I do... sometimes.

Sort of like this forum... I do this sometimes to get my life back on track and jump to that next real life operation the Holy Spirit of I AM in my life. I don't know what that is yet... the babel in my life might need to be replaced by a better babble if you'll pardon the pun.