Speaking in Tongues...Do You?

[benjosh]

FFH


You made a very good point when you said,

I am pretty sure there is a difference between the "Speaking in tongues" and the "gift of tongues" . This is where the confusion exists. One is used when communing with God and the other is used to when trying to communicate in a foreign language.

I am looking forward to what you find on this subject in LDS history.

BenJosh

 

[Green Gaia]

Sermon from a UU minister on a UU perspective of speaking in tongues. I thought it was interesting.

 

[benjosh]

I think your memory has served you right. This is the kind of stuff that probably stopped the speaking in tongues. Members ridiculing other members for speaking in tongues. It was probably thought to be too radical or weird, so it was supressed by it's own members, at the time.

I haven't done any research on this because I have been relaxing and enjoying the New Year's weekend. I wil start tomorrow on this. I think there is evidence of speaking in tongues in our church history that we as members are unaware of, or did not understand. I am pretty sure there is a difference between the "Speaking in tongues" and the "gift of tongues" . This is where the confusion exists. One is used when communing with God and the other is used to when trying to communicate in a foreign language.

Here's some history I found. Joseph's mother received a song in tongues and the song was interpreted by someone else, before the Book of Mormon plates came from the ground.

http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1883Wilm.htm

The following Hymn was sung in tongues by Mother Lucy Smith, and interpreted by Elder Levi Hancock. Pages 33 thru 35

The following is a partial quote from William Smith's (Joseph's brother) account, who was living at home when the gift of tongues was given to his mother.

Among the spiritual gifts named by Paul in Cor. 12:10, is the gift of tongues. This gift as generally believed by the Church of Latter Day Saints, not only occupies an important position in the Church, but forms one of the grand auxiliaries of the spiritual enjoyments of the Saints; as thereby by the Spirit's revelation, and by the means of the gift of the inter-pretation of tongues, many important and interesting things are brought to light. It is in this marvelous way that the song at the head of this chapter entitled "Moroni's Lamentation," was given to Mother Lucy Smith, sung in spirit and interpreted, as stated. The mother of the prophet having a firm belief in the Book of Mormon, while pondering over the account in that book of the entire overthrow and destruction of the Nephite race, by their enemies, at the time the golden plates were hid up in the hill Cumorah, received of the spirit, and the tongue was given, the words of the song being translated by the same spirit.

Enjoy, BenJosh

 

[FFH]

Here's some history I found. Joseph's mother received a song in tongues and the song was interpreted by someone else, before the Book of Mormon plates came from the ground.

http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1883Wilm.htm

The following Hymn was sung in tongues by Mother Lucy Smith, and interpreted by Elder Levi Hancock. Pages 33 thru 35

The following is a partial quote from William Smith's (Joseph's brother) account, who was living at home when the gift of tongues was given to his mother.



Enjoy, BenJosh

Wow, this is such a significant find !!! Thanks a million for finding and posting this link. It means a great deal to me, to be able to see, and read this.

I am related to Lucy Mack Smith, through Hyrum Smith. Hyrum's granddaughter married my great great grandfather, so it really means a lot to me, to be able to read this, which William Smith has written.

I will definitely keep this link and print it out.

I don't think I could find anything more significant than this, that proves there were members of the early church, that spoke in tongues.

Joseph Smith's mother spoke in tongues. I think this is such a significant find.

 

[FFH]

Evidence of speaking in tongues, in the Book of Mormon.

Mormon 9: 24

"And these signs shall follow them that believe---in my name shall they cast out devils, they shall speak with new tongues, they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them, they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover."

2 Nephi 31: 13

"Wherefore, my beloved bretheren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocracy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of you sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism---yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost, yea then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel."

 

[FFH]

Here is a link to evidence that the early church, including Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, spoke in tongues.

 

[Dentonz]

Actually, the bible refers to speaking in tongues in two separate lights...there's speaking in tongues for self edification and then speaking in tongues for prophesy. We're encouraged actually to speak in tongues however if you're speaking in front of a crowd...it's pointless unless you have someone to interpret. And can be scary...

I agree, in 1 Cor 13:1 Paul said "though i speak in the tounges of men and of angels....."
1 Cor 14:2 "He that speaketh in an unknown tounge, speaketh not unto man but unto God; for NO MAN understandeth him..."

If no man understands, then it can not be a language of this earth because some man somewhere would understand.

 

[sojourner]

I have never spoken in tongues. I have never been compelled nor have had a desire to speak in tongues. I know one or two people who have, on rare occasions, spoken in tongues. I do not presume to judge whether it is authentic or not in most cases.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

I speak a little Spanish. I speak Cherokee a little better than Spanish, and I speak French a little better than both of them. :jam: Go me.

Anyway, I don't buy the whole speaking in tongues thing. I believe I heard it once or twice when I was very small in my grandmother's Nazarene church, and I have seen it serveral times on TV. It seems like a huge act to me. But then, I don't really buy much of the stuff televangelists have to say...I mean, in the end, it all comes down to them asking you to send in money, right?

 

[Ronald]

"And When you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites;for they love to stand and pray in the synogogues and in the streets(speaking in unknown tongues), that they may be seen by men. Truly they have their reward." "But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

You know I tend to believe what this man(Yeshua) said. Peter said of Pauls words, that people twist and pervert Pauls words to their own destruction.

Reciting blessings and prayer is not the same thing. When I pray I do as my Savior says. What you do is between you and your Savior.

 

[dawny0826]

I agree, in 1 Cor 13:1 Paul said "though i speak in the tounges of men and of angels....."
1 Cor 14:2 "He that speaketh in an unknown tounge, speaketh not unto man but unto God; for NO MAN understandeth him..."

If no man understands, then it can not be a language of this earth because some man somewhere would understand.

Thanks, Dentonz. Just had a hunch we'd be on the same page with this one.

 

[joeboonda]

I absolutely do not speak in tongues, and I attended a Charismatic Church for about 3 years, even though I knew better. Lucky for me my Mom and Dad sent a great 5 hour video from their church about the whole Charismatic Movement, and I read many books on the subject and got out fast. Guess I got sucked into the whole thing because I enjoyed the Contemporary Praise and Worship Music. But they had strange beliefs on that, too. And they believed one could lose one's salvation, that there is a secondary experience where one receieves the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit' AFTER salvation, and that these people are 'more righteous' than 'regular' christians. They believe in faith healers like Benny Hinn, and the whole TBN crowd, in the 'prosperity movement', being 'slain in the spirit', etc. When one gets into believing in tongues, one believes in on-going revelation and the door is open for anything. Take the Toronto Blessings. First it was a 'gift of laughter' where the whole congregation would break out in laughter, and that was accepted. Then the same church came up with, get this, barn yard animal noises! Yeah, the whole congregation baa-ing and moo-ing and clucking, etc. Of course this was rejected by the main Charismatic Churches, why? THey said it was ridiculous, and it was. But the laughter thing, that was ok. ?!? alrighty then. Just like I don't believe in Benny Hinn who knocks down 3 aisles of people with a wave of his coat, (not), I don't believe the tongues movement is valid or of the Lord. It is dangerous and it is gibberish, not real language as described in Acts 2. Thousands of hours of recordings have been analyzed of it, and it is gibberish, nothing more. But, if people wanna do it, and believe it, whatever. I will say that on the main things pentecostals and charismatics are pretty much on course and I would call them brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[dawny0826]

I absolutely do not speak in tongues, and I attended a Charismatic Church for about 3 years, even though I knew better. Lucky for me my Mom and Dad sent a great 5 hour video from their church about the whole Charismatic Movement, and I read many books on the subject and got out fast. Guess I got sucked into the whole thing because I enjoyed the Contemporary Praise and Worship Music. But they had strange beliefs on that, too. And they believed one could lose one's salvation, that there is a secondary experience where one receieves the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit' AFTER salvation, and that these people are 'more righteous' than 'regular' christians. They believe in faith healers like Benny Hinn, and the whole TBN crowd, in the 'prosperity movement', being 'slain in the spirit', etc. When one gets into believing in tongues, one believes in on-going revelation and the door is open for anything. Take the Toronto Blessings. First it was a 'gift of laughter' where the whole congregation would break out in laughter, and that was accepted. Then the same church came up with, get this, barn yard animal noises! Yeah, the whole congregation baa-ing and moo-ing and clucking, etc. Of course this was rejected by the main Charismatic Churches, why? THey said it was ridiculous, and it was. But the laughter thing, that was ok. ?!? alrighty then. Just like I don't believe in Benny Hinn who knocks down 3 aisles of people with a wave of his coat, (not), I don't believe the tongues movement is valid or of the Lord. It is dangerous and it is gibberish, not real language as described in Acts 2. Thousands of hours of recordings have been analyzed of it, and it is gibberish, nothing more. But, if people wanna do it, and believe it, whatever. I will say that on the main things pentecostals and charismatics are pretty much on course and I would call them brothers and sisters in Christ.

I go to a Pentecostal Church and it's like every Baptist Church I've ever been to, the only difference is...we take a "full gospel" approach to the NT of the Bible and fully embrace the NT teachings. Christ told us that we would not only do his works but greater works and we believe this. A lot of Christians discount the possiblity of modern day miracles and turn their nose up at sections of the bible where faith healing and speaking in tongues are mentioned.

We truly believe that as Christians, we ARE the hands and feet of Christ and embrace the concept of modern day miracles. God Almighty, our Jesus Christ is the very same today as he will be tomorrow and has been and will be forever. The very same Jesus who healed the sick, raised the dead and walked on water is the VERY SAME Jesus Christ who dwells within us when we accept Him as our Saviour. He hasn't changed. We've closed our hearts and minds to what we have IN HIM.

Jesus told us...

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also: and greater works than these he will do because I go to My Father." John 14:12 (NKJV)

I really enjoy the contemporary praise and worship as well. And I love the fact that there are no formalities in our church...I can raise my hands to the sky in praise and worship...I don't have to stifle a "Hallelujia" or an "Amen" if I feel like saying it. I LOVE that. Free worship without crazy stares from people within a congregation.

As far as speaking in tongues is concerned...I've posted several times that...according to the Bible...there are two purposes for speaking in tongues...#1) Self-edification...to bring yourself closer to God and #2) For the sake of Prophesy. Biblically speaking, no one should be speaking in tongues FOR the masses unless they are doing so for the sake of prophesy and if so, there MUST be an interpretor. I for one, speak in tongues for self-edification. Speaking in tongues doesn't save me. Jesus Christ saved me. But it's a beautiful way to connect with my Heavenly Father. To completely yield myself to the Holy Spirit and to say whatever I'm prompted to by the spirit is beautiful and enriching. It's not about WHAT I'm saying. It's all about the experience...my personal growth in Christ. Whether what I'm saying is an actual heavenly or earthly language or simply just a bunch of gibberish...it's between God and I.

"Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries." 1 Cor. 14:1-2 (NKJV)

"He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church." 1 Cor. 14:4 (NKJV)

For me...it's all about self-edification.

I've never heard of a Pentecostal congregation claiming to be above other Christians because of the "baptism in the spirit". That's ridiculous. In fact, in our church...it's so NOT about our denomination and ALL but about our individual growth in Christ. One of my Pastor's greatest messages is to try to get people to think outside of denominational box and to focus on what the Bible instructs us to do...to embrace the Word of God...pray on how we can use our God-given talents to further the kingdom of Christ and promote unity...as ONE BODY of Christ.

Further, every Christian has experienced the "baptism in the Holy Spirit". If you didn't, you wouldn't be a Christian. Too many people put TOO much into speaking in tongues. It's a VERY small detail of the ENTIRE picture. The moment that you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour and truly invite Him into your Heart...that's when you receive the Holy Spirit and that right there is the "baptism".

"John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit." Acts 11:16 (NKJV)

Yes, Pentecostals and I believe some Charismatics DO believe that a sign of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the gift of tongues but MOST people do not believe that if you don't speak in tongues, you're not saved. That's just, well...ridiculous. But you SHOULD feel SOMETHING. If you accept Christ into your life but stand there stone cold with no emotion and feel no change or stirring within you...then I'd say...you should probably pray on it because you haven't received. When you receive the Holy Spirit...there's SOMETHING...whether you feel a surge of emotion, you cry, you laugh, you feel a release or you speak in tongues. It's different for everybody. I can't describe how incredibly spiritual it was for me when I truly accepted Christ into my life. I literally FELT the Holy Spirit pour over me. I FELT Satan lose his grip on my soul. I felt a freedom and peace that surpasses all. I KNEW I was saved.

And I have actually "laughed" in the Spirit before. This can happen to genuine people.

We believe in water baptism. We believe it is a symbol of your commitment to Christ, your rebirth. But...we don't believe that water baptism is any more necessary than speaking in tongues. These things don't SAVE you. Jesus Christ saves you when you accept him, repent of your sins and pick up your own cross to follow him. Once you have the Holy Spirit...once you've accepted Christ...salvation is yours but you have to feed your Spirit by staying in the Word. If you don't feed your Spirit...you can't grow. Your faith can't flourish.

I don't disagree that there are some people who are really "out there" who claim to be a part of the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement. Most Pentecostals that I've come in contact with, feel very similarly to the way that my Church teaches. There are some people who speak in tongues for show and act completely goofy. And those few give others such a negative impression of an incredibly spiritual movement.

Anyway, I know I've typed a novel but I I wanted to share that a lot of things pertaining to Pentecostals and Charismatics are blown way out of proportion. There are some goofballs out there but there are also many genuine people who are just truly trying to walk as fully as they can with Christ...embracing the Word of God and leaning on the Spirit for guidance.

 

[Dentonz]

I absolutely do not speak in tongues, and I attended a Charismatic Church for about 3 years, even though I knew better. Lucky for me my Mom and Dad sent a great 5 hour video from their church about the whole Charismatic Movement, and I read many books on the subject and got out fast. Guess I got sucked into the whole thing because I enjoyed the Contemporary Praise and Worship Music. But they had strange beliefs on that, too. And they believed one could lose one's salvation, that there is a secondary experience where one receieves the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit' AFTER salvation, and that these people are 'more righteous' than 'regular' christians. They believe in faith healers like Benny Hinn, and the whole TBN crowd, in the 'prosperity movement', being 'slain in the spirit', etc. When one gets into believing in tongues, one believes in on-going revelation and the door is open for anything. Take the Toronto Blessings. First it was a 'gift of laughter' where the whole congregation would break out in laughter, and that was accepted. Then the same church came up with, get this, barn yard animal noises! Yeah, the whole congregation baa-ing and moo-ing and clucking, etc. Of course this was rejected by the main Charismatic Churches, why? THey said it was ridiculous, and it was. But the laughter thing, that was ok. ?!? alrighty then. Just like I don't believe in Benny Hinn who knocks down 3 aisles of people with a wave of his coat, (not), I don't believe the tongues movement is valid or of the Lord. It is dangerous and it is gibberish, not real language as described in Acts 2. Thousands of hours of recordings have been analyzed of it, and it is gibberish, nothing more. But, if people wanna do it, and believe it, whatever. I will say that on the main things pentecostals and charismatics are pretty much on course and I would call them brothers and sisters in Christ.

Hebrews 6: 1-6 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentence from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of BAPTISMS(plural), and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to open shame."

If there is only repentance and salvation, then how can you possibly interpret this?
What are the different baptisms he's talking about? How about laying on of hands, or the ressurection of the dead? "This we will do". All these are in addition to salvation or "foundation of repentance".
And then if someone who has been enlightened and has partaken of the power of the Holy Ghost were to fall away, they could not be restored unto just the doctrine of repentance.
When you receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost it is secondary to receiving the Holy Ghost upon salvation. You become "empowered from on high" is how Jesus put it. Even Jesus was Baptized in water and then the Holy Ghost descended on him.

 

[Dentonz]

Hebrews 6: 1-6 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentence from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of BAPTISMS(plural), and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to open shame."

If there is only repentance and salvation, then how can you possibly interpret this?
What are the different baptisms he's talking about? How about laying on of hands, or the ressurection of the dead? "This we will do". All these are in addition to salvation or "foundation of repentance".
And then if someone who has been enlightened and has partaken of the power of the Holy Ghost were to fall away, they could not be restored unto just the doctrine of repentance.
When you receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost it is secondary to receiving the Holy Ghost upon salvation. You become "empowered from on high" is how Jesus put it. Even Jesus was Baptized in water and then the Holy Ghost descended on him.

In addition: Jesus was talking to the apostles in Acts 1 when he tells them in verse 4 to "wait for the promise of the Father". verse 5 "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." Verse 8 " But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost has come upon you....."

OK??? Hadn't he already gave the Apostles power? They were also already 'saved' or 'born again'. They had all been baptized in the Jordan river, they all accepted Jesus as their Lord, they left all that they had to follow him. And when he died on the cross he said "It is finished". So if there is nothing after salvation, you might as well throw out everything after John's gospel.

 

[Ernestine]

My opinion is that today no one can speak in tongues. Those who were present at Pentecost were filled with holy spirit and one of the abilities they were given was the ability to speak in tongues--speak different languages. That was temporary and for a reason--so that they could spread the gospel. The "gifts" were eventually done away with as the Bible states.

 

[Dentonz]

My opinion is that today no one can speak in tongues. Those who were present at Pentecost were filled with holy spirit and one of the abilities they were given was the ability to speak in tongues--speak different languages. That was temporary and for a reason--so that they could spread the gospel. The "gifts" were eventually done away with as the Bible states.

So you " know as you are known" and your "face to face" with our Lord. Because in the scripture your refering to that is the criterea for the gifts being done awy with.

 

[BM5]

Ernistine is right.

This speaking in tongues which is nothing but an incoherent babbling gives nothing to God and does not edify anyone ----- Demonic ?

 

[dawny0826]

Ernistine is right.

This speaking in tongues which is nothing but an incoherent babbling gives nothing to God and does not edify anyone ----- Demonic ?

You obviously haven't read ANY of my posts.

 

[dawny0826]

My opinion is that today no one can speak in tongues. Those who were present at Pentecost were filled with holy spirit and one of the abilities they were given was the ability to speak in tongues--speak different languages. That was temporary and for a reason--so that they could spread the gospel. The "gifts" were eventually done away with as the Bible states.

Actually...I believe that the greatest responsibility of EVERY Christian IS to spread the gospel. Every person has gifts and talents and Christians are to pray on their individual talents to that they can utlize them to bring people to Christ.

As I've stated MANY times in this thread, I did start the thread...

People keep thinking of speaking in tongues as in speaking in tongues for the masses to prophesy. There is only TWO aspects of speaking in tongues which is discussed in the Bible...that is speaking in tongues for self-edification and speaking in tongues for the masses...to prophesy.

When I speak in tongues, I speak in tongues for self-edification...mostly when I feel led to by the Holy Spirit, when I'm praying or praying...most of the time in the privacy of my own home...during my personal devotions.

Don't tell me that I don't speak in tongues. I do. WHAT I'm saying...isn't an issue. The point is that my heart is in the right place and I'm yielding my tongue to the Holy Spirit. It's almost like an exercise that leaves me feeling more deeply connected to my Saviour.

"And these signs shall follow them that believe...they shall speak with new tongues." Mark 16:17

And for the record, Mark 16 isn't dealing with the Pentecost...the Great Comission is discussed in these verses. And what is the Great Comission? It's the obligation of every Christian...to get out and spread the gospel.