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Spain and Ireland Nationalize Their Hospital Systems in Response to COVID-19

Discussion in 'European Politics' started by Left Coast, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
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    #1 Left Coast, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  2. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Why would you want the government taking over any hospitals? I didn't think you like the federal government these days.
     
  3. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    It might take multiple shocks like the current pandemic, but the era where profits are the primary consideration and being one's brother's keeper and even more is looked on laughingly will end.

    It's been said by the wise in every tradition. This is from the Jewish tradition, the Baal Shem Tov:

    "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Why? Because every human being has a root in the Unity, and to reject the minutest particle of the Unity is to reject it all.”
     
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  4. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    If we nationalized our hospitals here, Mr. Trump would not be able to charge the Democrats with being socialists in the upcoming election.
     
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  5. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
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    As much as Trump and a number of of his high-level appointees are laughably unqualified, many people in federal government service are lovely and competent people who do good work.

    That said, here in California, I'd settle for a state takeover.
     
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  6. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Desperate times call for desperate measures. It appears to be necessary that liberty is sacrificed for the greater good temporarily.
     
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  7. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    He cant. POTUS does not have that power. POTUS can not make law.
     
  8. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member
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    He can per executive order. He even has experience with Eminent Domain seizing land for his wall. And his powers go even further during a state of emergency.
    And if he doesn't do it, governors have similar power in their states.
     
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  9. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    By invoking the Defense Production Act, I would imagine he now has some control over the services hospitals as a private industry provide.
     
  10. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    But...but they can do nothing without the 'boss' saying they can; the 'boss' now is Donald Trump. Looks like you're endorsing Trump. Don't think you can have it both ways.
     
  11. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    He has already invoked the Act. He has refused so far to implement it.
     
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  12. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    If you want to discuss this with me, first become informed. Otherwise, you're just wasting my time.
     
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  13. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    Right. Shad was suggesting nationalizing hospitals would take lawmaking powers the President doesn't have, but from a temporary perspective the Act should enable him to do what is best for the country. And not his election efforts.
     
  14. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
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    If Trump nationalized private hospitals, I would endorse that decision. Come back to me when that happens. Right now he thinks this whole thing is magically going to wrap up by Easter, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
     
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  15. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    The highest death totals are in all of these countries, lol.

    As soon as you nationalize medicines you get state rationing, death panels, and even more fun. See the great thing about privatized care is that you isolated risk -- if one hospital doesn't acquire enough supplies it's just that ONE hospital that has a problem. If all the hospitals get supplies from the same place NONE of them have anything. That means in the privatized system SOMEONE always has resources if they're more industrious in obtaining them, and it also means those people can help those that need more of this or that. Likewise, if one hospital is overloaded and decides give everyone a DNR order (they're already talking about this) you can literally leave and go to another hospital that doesn't do this. If you're in a nation with a DNR order you're boned short of getting on a plane and getting treatment internationally. (Good luck with that, lol.)

    But, for anyone that has to deal with that scenario I hope you get lucky and never get the bug. I have friends in several of these countries and they're much more panicked than anyone I know in the USA.
     
  16. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Please explain to me what you think 'nationalizing' private hospitals entails, and how would that change anything?
     
  17. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
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    The highest death totals from COVID are in Spain and Ireland? They nationalized in response to the crisis, the crisis didn't happen because if it.

    All healthcare and health insurance requires rationing.

    LOL wow haven't heard that complete bullsh*t in a while. Bringing back an Obama-era phrase, retro!

    If all hospitals are state-run, suppliers would be forced to do business and distribute their products fairly to all. The number of suppliers doesn't change.

    Hospitals would be less likely to be overloaded if private hospitals shared the burden of the public, not just people who can afford their over-priced care. So if that's your worry, you should support this.

    People in the USA are in denial, partially because their denial has been encouraged by our President.
     
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  18. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
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    It means bringing private hospitals under the same regulation and administration as public hospitals, which includes the patients they accept and the amounts they charge for care provided. It would create capacity in the public hospital system which can become quickly overloaded by the poor and uninsured who can't afford to go elsewhere for care.
     
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  19. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    You mean to the standards of the worst hospitals we actually have? We have state and county hospitals and compared to any other hospital they're total ****. So, we should make all our hospitals equally ****? :D

    We're already mobilizing resources from downstate hospitals to cities and the private hospitals are doing that themselves in support of the ones in the areas getting hit the hardest. I just don't see any reason to intervene all of the things being suggested are already being done.
     
  20. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
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    It's a little like charter schools. When you get to hand-pick who you'll serve and who you won't, hey, what do you know, you look great in comparison to institutions serving, you know, the public.

    It's not already being done. We don't
    need private hospitals' charity of excess supply donations. We need them to serve the general public.
     
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