South Africa is burning.

[George-ananda]

Why do you say "black " Africa and not just Africa?

Because I equate North Africa with the Arab-Islamic cultural world.

How prevalent do you think anti-white sentiment is?

I would say it is quite strong but most people are not activists.

As for white many whites choose to stay has many reasons I might have a few answers:

1. They love the country and the people. (I have met white Sangomas and people who genuinely want to help the people.)

2. They don't have the money to leave because they are too poor. (Yes there are many poor white people)

3. Segregation. We have places that are distinctly white, black, coloured, Indian etc. Some white people have also created their own towns such as in Oranje. So they are isolated from those who they don't like.

4. They have made friends with people from different races so they live among them better. They feel they are part of the community.

5. There are Afrikaaners who believe that South Africa was given to them by God. So it is their right to live there. (can't remember the name of the doctrine but I think it is linked to the Dutch Reformed Church and events such as the Great Trek)

6. You are conflating white farmers with white South Africans in general. Most white South Africans aren't farmers and many live in wealthy areas far away from the poorer areas and own businesses. We even have foreign white people who are established here. They don't have the same fear as the white farmers.

7. The cultures of different ethnicities of white people, same as with black people, differs and they face different challenges. For instance an Afrikaaner faces different challenges to an English person because the culture is different and that also depends on where they live. Non whites will also many times view them differently because Afrikaaners tend to be associated with Apartheid an other white people not necessarily so.

8. Many fought against Apartheid and so have demonstrated that they are willing to struggle to bring the country right.

But these are generalizations and I don't think that there can be just a few answers. Each person has their own reason for being here.

Those are some good thoughts/answers to my honest question.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Because I equate North Africa with the Arab-Islamic cultural world.

What is interesting is that there is overlap between the two. For instance Somalia consists of Black muslims and then the problems mix. But the whole continent goes through mostly the same problems, except that in North Africa they have a huge problem with religious terrorist groups.

I would say it is quite strong but most people are not activists.

Most white people don't come across anti white racism from average people they come across in their every day life. The media does show certain political figures expressing anti white sentiment, but those are the same people whose supporters started the riots and as we can see the majority of South Africa didn't participate. So Anti White sentiment might be large but it isn't from the majority of black people. If that was the case white people would have been kicked out long ago.

Those are some good thoughts/answers to my honest question.

Glad they helped.

 

[SA Huguenot]

To me I consider all of black Africa to be a effing mess. I genuinely wondered why whites viewed as non-natives who brought an oppressive history would want to deal with that mess and the people with those attitudes.

OP never responded to my question.

I must have missed your enquiry.

let me tell you why there are "White" people in South Africa.
As with all the European countries in the late 1400's early 1500's, they tried to trade with the East after the Islamic wars in the middle east and Eastern Europe made it too expensive and dangerous to travel through the north of Africa. You had an almost definate chance to loose everything, and to end up as a Muslim slave. If you do manage to get through to either side, your merchandise would cost 100 fold due to taxation and bribes.

The Portuguese were the first to pass the Cape of Good hope, and to reach india and back. They needed to get warehouses, docks, and trading stations all the way to China and Indocesia. Out of this need countries such as Mocambique and Angola developed. The Portuguese lost hundreds of thousands of their sea men, and continiously had wars against the Muslim populations north of madagascar up to India. Due to the wars in Spain, Turkey, and places where Bulgaria, Romania, austria, and the rest of the Eastern European lands were ravaged by the Muslim advance, the Portuguese acted very harch against the Muslim countries, and had continious atlantic wars for over 100 years. if Muslims were caught not trading with them, their cargo was seized, and the people sunk with their boats. Muslim women had their noses cut off, at other times small villages were drown and much more autrocities, such as selling them as slaves occured. The Portuguese eventually lost their hold on the trade with the East when Germany, France, England joined into this newlu found riches with the trade routh around the Cape.

Eventually the Dutch also decided to trade with the East, and they needed a halfway station, The Cape of Good Hope was the chosen settlement. Initially the idea was not to keep these people there, but to use it as a refreshing station for Dutch ships.

Things just developed further, and the Dutch, which were Protestant, decided to ensure that the Christian religion be spread to the indigenous people in the Cape colony.
Jan Van Riebeeck, the first Governor at the Cape, had thought to join the Portuguese and English in the slave trade, and thought the Cape would be more cheaper to the trade than to travel all the way to Mocambique or higher up to Dar es Salam etc.
The Dutch government never allowed the Cape colony to capture slaves from the interior to be sold to the rest of the world.
However, the Dutch did own slaves in the Cape. These were slaves bought by the Compant, (Dutch Indian Company) of who were convicted criminals from the Arab lands and Indonesia.
They were not captured slaves per say, but Muslims who were found guilty of treason, theft, or other crimes, and were sentenced for slavery.
This is where the rich culture of the Muslim community in the Cape came from.
The Cape colonists did not like to buy any black slaves from the slave trade, for two reasons. one reason was that the black slaves simply ran away and dissappeared into the interior of Africa.

Therefore, the Dutch at the Cape never participated in the African slave trade.

After a few years, these farmers at the Cape obviously build their farms on land which they purchased, and permanent free residency was allowed by the DEC. With the wars in Europe between France, Spain, England etc, more people were sent to the collonies in North America, and South Africa. Even the persecution against the Protestants in Europe by the Catholic Church and wars of religion, had Hueguonotes, and Calvinists fleing the the NEW World. These people had no Country left in Europe, and stayed in the American colonies, and some at the Cape of Good hope.

Needless to say, these people then continued to farm. As they bought more land, they started to enter the interior of the African continent.
They were very vulrnable to the European political arena, and when England had war with the Netherlands, or france, the Cape would change to English, then back to Dutch and so on.
Under the English. in the early 1800's they had it really bad. The English Anglican anti slavery movement just hated the Dutch cCalvinists, and incited the indigenous people against these "Boers", as these whites were known, and this resulted in the Boers leaving the Brittish Cape, to create their own country in th 1830's. They bought land, traded with the Black chiefs, and even went into war with black Chiefs against the enemies of those Chiefs, to allow purchases of land.
For instance, Piet Retief fought the enemies of Dingaan, the Zulu king, to get back Dingaan's stollen cattle.
Dingaan gave the Boers land to settle, but by deception with the signing of the treaty, had the boers caught, impaled most, and killed the rest with Knobkierries, (Hitting sticks). Piet Retief was last to die as he watched his family, friends and son being massacered.

Dingaan then mobilised his Zulu impis to kill all the whites in Natal, and they murdered a lot of Boer Trekkers.
on 6 Dec 1838 the boers , 472 of them including women and children, fought off 15000 Zulus. They were armed with front loaded flint rifles, and 3 small canons sized 1.5 foot.
It was a miracle that they achieved victory. Just to compare this battle (Blood river) with how the Brittish fared against the Zulu's, we can go to Islandwana battle 1879 where more than 1800 hardened Brittish soldiers fought 20 000 Zulus, and 1300 were massacred. The Brittish had Martini–Henry breechloading rifles and two 7-pounder mountain guns as well as 2 Gattling Guns (which never gets mentioned) and hale rockets.

Anyhow. By this decisive war, the Boers now owned the area known as Natal, Free State, and the Transvaal.

They were eventually annexed and overrun by the British in 1902 when the Boer republics were made part of the Cape Colony, and they called it the Union of South Africa.
Our farms were destroyed, and our land taken away, and our people had to leave and came to the Witwatersrand to work in the mines. The old countries were dismantled, and a new multiracial country ruled by the English elete ruled. in 1948 the government again changed when the Boers, now called the Afrikaners took control of the democratic ellected government, and they again seeked sovereign rule. The Afrikaner then passed laws to ensure that South Africa remains their country, unfortunately the British commonwealth still dictated what they should do in South Africa. Keep in mind that the old Transvaal and Free state was dismantled, and the Cape and Natal and vast areas of the black lands was now included in the RSA, it ment that the Afrikaner had no hope of maintaining their own sovereign identity, and laws were made to ensure that the Africaner is protected in this land.

These laws were called "Apartheid" laws (Seperate development), which the liberal leaders changed to "Apart hate". from 1961 up to 1993 the National Government attempted to create seperate development for the Black nationalities, and to guarantee a country for the Afrikaner Boers.
Unfortunately, everyone could see that the Boers were the minority, and the more the Government fought, the stronger resistance grew against the idea of an Afrikaner South Africa, Even the Afrikaner saw this will not be viable, and with a referendum the majority of White Afrikaners voted to change the Constitution to one of majority Rule.

This is in a nutshell why there are White people in Africa, and they are part of this land, and do not belong to any other country in Europe.
These Whites realy thought that the new democratic country will be a working choice, only to learn that South Africa is now reversed in Apart Hate against any decency or intellectual solutions.

Why do I still live here?
Where should I go where I will not be an Immigrant?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Some people think things were better under Aparteid, maybe for whites only!

Hahaha.

Most of Africa is controlled by Black leaders. Wonder how that pans out? Whites are a minority in the country. Sound familiar?

 

[Samael_Khan]

I must have missed your enquiry.

let me tell you why there are "White" people in South Africa.
As with all the European countries in the late 1400's early 1500's, they tried to trade with the East after the Islamic wars in the middle east and Eastern Europe made it too expensive and dangerous to travel through the north of Africa. You had an almost definate chance to loose everything, and to end up as a Muslim slave. If you do manage to get through to either side, your merchandise would cost 100 fold due to taxation and bribes.

The Portuguese were the first to pass the Cape of Good hope, and to reach india and back. They needed to get warehouses, docks, and trading stations all the way to China and Indocesia. Out of this need countries such as Mocambique and Angola developed. The Portuguese lost hundreds of thousands of their sea men, and continiously had wars against the Muslim populations north of madagascar up to India. Due to the wars in Spain, Turkey, and places where Bulgaria, Romania, austria, and the rest of the Eastern European lands were ravaged by the Muslim advance, the Portuguese acted very harch against the Muslim countries, and had continious atlantic wars for over 100 years. if Muslims were caught not trading with them, their cargo was seized, and the people sunk with their boats. Muslim women had their noses cut off, at other times small villages were drown and much more autrocities, such as selling them as slaves occured. The Portuguese eventually lost their hold on the trade with the East when Germany, France, England joined into this newlu found riches with the trade routh around the Cape.

Eventually the Dutch also decided to trade with the East, and they needed a halfway station, The Cape of Good Hope was the chosen settlement. Initially the idea was not to keep these people there, but to use it as a refreshing station for Dutch ships.

Things just developed further, and the Dutch, which were Protestant, decided to ensure that the Christian religion be spread to the indigenous people in the Cape colony.
Jan Van Riebeeck, the first Governor at the Cape, had thought to join the Portuguese and English in the slave trade, and thought the Cape would be more cheaper to the trade than to travel all the way to Mocambique or higher up to Dar es Salam etc.
The Dutch government never allowed the Cape colony to capture slaves from the interior to be sold to the rest of the world.
However, the Dutch did own slaves in the Cape. These were slaves bought by the Compant, (Dutch Indian Company) of who were convicted criminals from the Arab lands and Indonesia.
They were not captured slaves per say, but Muslims who were found guilty of treason, theft, or other crimes, and were sentenced for slavery.
This is where the rich culture of the Muslim community in the Cape came from.
The Cape colonists did not like to buy any black slaves from the slave trade, for two reasons. one reason was that the black slaves simply ran away and dissappeared into the interior of Africa.

Therefore, the Dutch at the Cape never participated in the African slave trade.

After a few years, these farmers at the Cape obviously build their farms on land which they purchased, and permanent free residency was allowed by the DEC. With the wars in Europe between France, Spain, England etc, more people were sent to the collonies in North America, and South Africa. Even the persecution against the Protestants in Europe by the Catholic Church and wars of religion, had Hueguonotes, and Calvinists fleing the the NEW World. These people had no Country left in Europe, and stayed in the American colonies, and some at the Cape of Good hope.

Needless to say, these people then continued to farm. As they bought more land, they started to enter the interior of the African continent.
They were very vulrnable to the European political arena, and when England had war with the Netherlands, or france, the Cape would change to English, then back to Dutch and so on.
Under the English. in the early 1800's they had it really bad. The English Anglican anti slavery movement just hated the Dutch cCalvinists, and incited the indigenous people against these "Boers", as these whites were known, and this resulted in the Boers leaving the Brittish Cape, to create their own country in th 1830's. They bought land, traded with the Black chiefs, and even went into war with black Chiefs against the enemies of those Chiefs, to allow purchases of land.
For instance, Piet Retief fought the enemies of Dingaan, the Zulu king, to get back Dingaan's stollen cattle.
Dingaan gave the Boers land to settle, but by deception with the signing of the treaty, had the boers caught, impaled most, and killed the rest with Knobkierries, (Hitting sticks). Piet Retief was last to die as he watched his family, friends and son being massacered.

Dingaan then mobilised his Zulu impis to kill all the whites in Natal, and they murdered a lot of Boer Trekkers.
on 6 Dec 1838 the boers , 472 of them including women and children, fought off 15000 Zulus. They were armed with front loaded flint rifles, and 3 small canons sized 1.5 foot.
It was a miracle that they achieved victory. Just to compare this battle (Blood river) with how the Brittish fared against the Zulu's, we can go to Islandwana battle 1879 where more than 1800 hardened Brittish soldiers fought 20 000 Zulus, and 1300 were massacred. The Brittish had Martini–Henry breechloading rifles and two 7-pounder mountain guns as well as 2 Gattling Guns (which never gets mentioned) and hale rockets.

Anyhow. By this decisive war, the Boers now owned the area known as Natal, Free State, and the Transvaal.

They were eventually annexed and overrun by the British in 1902 when the Boer republics were made part of the Cape Colony, and they called it the Union of South Africa.
Our farms were destroyed, and our land taken away, and our people had to leave and came to the Witwatersrand to work in the mines. The old countries were dismantled, and a new multiracial country ruled by the English elete ruled. in 1948 the government again changed when the Boers, now called the Afrikaners took control of the democratic ellected government, and they again seeked sovereign rule. The Afrikaner then passed laws to ensure that South Africa remains their country, unfortunately the British commonwealth still dictated what they should do in South Africa. Keep in mind that the old Transvaal and Free state was dismantled, and the Cape and Natal and vast areas of the black lands was now included in the RSA, it ment that the Afrikaner had no hope of maintaining their own sovereign identity, and laws were made to ensure that the Africaner is protected in this land.

These laws were called "Apartheid" laws (Seperate development), which the liberal leaders changed to "Apart hate". from 1961 up to 1993 the National Government attempted to create seperate development for the Black nationalities, and to guarantee a country for the Afrikaner Boers.
Unfortunately, everyone could see that the Boers were the minority, and the more the Government fought, the stronger resistance grew against the idea of an Afrikaner South Africa, Even the Afrikaner saw this will not be viable, and with a referendum the majority of White Afrikaners voted to change the Constitution to one of majority Rule.

This is in a nutshell why there are White people in Africa, and they are part of this land, and do not belong to any other country in Europe.
These Whites realy thought that the new democratic country will be a working choice, only to learn that South Africa is now reversed in Apart Hate against any decency or intellectual solutions.

Why do I still live here?
Where should I go where I will not be an Immigrant?

Just something to add: People do not realise that Afrikaaners are a specific ethnic group that whose ancestors yes dates back to Europe, but whose culture and language developed in South Africa. That is why the language incorporates the word "Afrika" in the name because it was developed here and incorporates words indigenous groups and malays as well. (If I remember correctly Afrikaans was developed so that everybody working in the mines could communicate easily). The Afrikaans culture has been developed and influenced by all the other ethnic cultures of South Africa. So an Afrikaaner is distinctly different from Europeans.

So Afrikaaners aren't European, they are African. And Afrikaans is the youngest language in the world which is indigenous to South Africa. Thing is an African is an African if they are born here, and it doesn't depend on who their parents or ancestors are.

 

[George-ananda]

Why do I still live here?
Where should I go where I will not be an Immigrant?

Thank you very much for that very detailed history lesson. An outsider today like myself has to shake his head in overwhelm at all that. I guess everywhere in the world has its complicated history.

As to your ending question, I agree at this point you would be an immigrant anywhere else.

Thinking if I was a SA Huguenot in 2021, my (naïve perhaps) instinct is to say let's find a first world country and develop our next generations in a free orderly first world country where there is not the apart hate for whites that just too many blacks in South Africa appear to have.

Plus my instincts are also fueled by the opinion that black run countries will be a mess for the foreseeable future (as described in your OP). (Prejudiced but I feel correct too on my part).

 

[SA Huguenot]

This morning I learned that a lot of Black people, Indians, Muslims, Colourd people and Whites took control and are guarding shops and towns to prevent the havock.
Taxi operators, mainly black men, are working shifts to protect everything.

From this aged White man, who grew up in the Apartheid years, it is as a refreshing rain shower after drought.

There is yet hope, and there are heros in all nationalities.

I can only hope this was an eye opener to the Political leaders, that socilaism is a danger, and the only way to get South Africa back to its full potential, is to have respect for people's property.
The legislation that the ANC wants to pass through parlaiment to Exproriate property without any compensation, it now the biggest danget to the survival of this country.

If the government is allowed to take any farm, home, business, without reason or compensation, we are all screwed.
They have the idea that everything should belong to the state, and you will rent that property over 99 years, as is in Mocambique, and Zimbabwe.

They hate the values of ownership, because they perceive it as "Rich", and "Poor".
They do not take into account that private entrepineurship is what creates employment, and stability.

Anyhow, we have shortages of fuel, bread, milk, and some shops had to rasion sales items per customer.
our companies dont have diesel, and our trucks dont have any trade between Gauteng and Natal, and they think it might continue for another week.

Greetings to everyone living in peace in their countries.
Do not take it for granted, your parents created it for you.

 

[Stevicus]

This morning I learned that a lot of Black people, Indians, Muslims, Colourd people and Whites took control and are guarding shops and towns to prevent the havock.
Taxi operators, mainly black men, are working shifts to protect everything.

From this aged White man, who grew up in the Apartheid years, it is as a refreshing rain shower after drought.

There is yet hope, and there are heros in all nationalities.

I can only hope this was an eye opener to the Political leaders, that socilaism is a danger, and the only way to get South Africa back to its full potential, is to have respect for people's property.
The legislation that the ANC wants to pass through parlaiment to Exproriate property without any compensation, it now the biggest danget to the survival of this country.

If the government is allowed to take any farm, home, business, without reason or compensation, we are all screwed.
They have the idea that everything should belong to the state, and you will rent that property over 99 years, as is in Mocambique, and Zimbabwe.

They hate the values of ownership, because they perceive it as "Rich", and "Poor".
They do not take into account that private entrepineurship is what creates employment, and stability.

Anyhow, we have shortages of fuel, bread, milk, and some shops had to rasion sales items per customer.
our companies dont have diesel, and our trucks dont have any trade between Gauteng and Natal, and they think it might continue for another week.

Greetings to everyone living in peace in their countries.
Do not take it for granted, your parents created it for you.

You think that socialism caused this? I know it's become fashionable these days to make socialism out to be some kind of whipping boy for all of our problems, but I honestly can't see it.

Even if, as you say, socialism is the problem, then it's necessary to examine the causes and why people might be inclined to support socialism in the first place.

It shouldn't be that difficult to understand why the plebs and the proles would want to elevate themselves and their position in society, so they would gravitate towards those who focus on the needs of the common people.

Those in the upper classes might also be inclined to support socialism to some degree, or perhaps a mixed Keynesian liberal system, as a way of hedging their bets and creating a barrier and safety net to positively discourage revolution. But that only really works when the economy is prosperous enough, with a surfeit of goods, resources, and food so as to lead to a relatively decent standard of living for all, even the lower classes. I think that's what we've tried to do here in the United States, and the same trend can be noted in other countries which tend towards liberal democracy. It took a while before we got to this point, and we still have many lingering problems which may set us back, the pandemic being one of them.

The way I see it, we have a choice to make.

We could share what we have, and promote cooperation and friendship among all nations and peoples of the world - so that we can build a better standard of living for all and work together to resolve the problems we all face as human beings.

The other choice is that we hoard what we have, close off our nations and territories with walls and other barriers to keep all the undesirables out. If we need more stuff, we can always expand, like we've always done. But that sort of thinking led the planet to two horrific world wars, as well as a Cold War which brought us to the brink of total destruction.

Then, there'd be nothing left to share, nothing left to hoard, nothing left to defend.

So, I don't know. Maybe there really is no hope for humanity, and we're all doomed. In the long run, we are all dead.

 

[George-ananda]

This morning I learned that a lot of Black people, Indians, Muslims, Colourd people and Whites took control and are guarding shops and towns to prevent the havock.
Taxi operators, mainly black men, are working shifts to protect everything.

From this aged White man, who grew up in the Apartheid years, it is as a refreshing rain shower after drought.

There is yet hope, and there are heros in all nationalities.

I can only hope this was an eye opener to the Political leaders, that socilaism is a danger, and the only way to get South Africa back to its full potential, is to have respect for people's property.
The legislation that the ANC wants to pass through parlaiment to Exproriate property without any compensation, it now the biggest danget to the survival of this country.

If the government is allowed to take any farm, home, business, without reason or compensation, we are all screwed.
They have the idea that everything should belong to the state, and you will rent that property over 99 years, as is in Mocambique, and Zimbabwe.

They hate the values of ownership, because they perceive it as "Rich", and "Poor".
They do not take into account that private entrepineurship is what creates employment, and stability.

Anyhow, we have shortages of fuel, bread, milk, and some shops had to rasion sales items per customer.
our companies dont have diesel, and our trucks dont have any trade between Gauteng and Natal, and they think it might continue for another week.

Greetings to everyone living in peace in their countries.
Do not take it for granted, your parents created it for you.

All interesting information.

It seems a lot scary to me that South Africans need private citizens to police the country as apparently the police, national guard, army and whatever government bodies are not strong enough to control the situations themselves. This strikes me as approaching civil war conditions.

Am I understanding this correctly or am I missing something?

Well, I wish well and that law and order gets strong near universal backing.

 

[George-ananda]

You think that socialism caused this? I know it's become fashionable these days to make socialism out to be some kind of whipping boy for all of our problems, but I honestly can't see it.

Even if, as you say, socialism is the problem, then it's necessary to examine the causes and why people might be inclined to support socialism in the first place.

It shouldn't be that difficult to understand why the plebs and the proles would want to elevate themselves and their position in society, so they would gravitate towards those who focus on the needs of the common people.

Those in the upper classes might also be inclined to support socialism to some degree, or perhaps a mixed Keynesian liberal system, as a way of hedging their bets and creating a barrier and safety net to positively discourage revolution. But that only really works when the economy is prosperous enough, with a surfeit of goods, resources, and food so as to lead to a relatively decent standard of living for all, even the lower classes. I think that's what we've tried to do here in the United States, and the same trend can be noted in other countries which tend towards liberal democracy. It took a while before we got to this point, and we still have many lingering problems which may set us back, the pandemic being one of them.

The way I see it, we have a choice to make.

We could share what we have, and promote cooperation and friendship among all nations and peoples of the world - so that we can build a better standard of living for all and work together to resolve the problems we all face as human beings.

The other choice is that we hoard what we have, close off our nations and territories with walls and other barriers to keep all the undesirables out. If we need more stuff, we can always expand, like we've always done. But that sort of thinking led the planet to two horrific world wars, as well as a Cold War which brought us to the brink of total destruction.

Then, there'd be nothing left to share, nothing left to hoard, nothing left to defend.

So, I don't know. Maybe there really is no hope for humanity, and we're all doomed. In the long run, we are all dead.

Maybe one way of looking at the point @SA Huguenot is trying to make is that socialists stir up this hatred towards property and farm owners that turn violent.

Societies proper level of socialism and capitalism can be debated but it's the extremist and violent fringe on all sides that will doom everything. I'd say let democracy play out but they all have come together on law and order or their society will turn into a hell hole.

Give fair democracy a chance and be strong against crime.

 

[Samael_Khan]

All interesting information.

It seems a lot scary to me that South Africans need private citizens to police the country as apparently the police, national guard, army and whatever government bodies are not strong enough to control the situations themselves. This strikes me as approaching civil war conditions.

Am I understanding this correctly or am I missing something?

Well, I wish well and that law and order gets strong near universal backing.

I agree, this could lead to civil war, but if certain conditions were met. It seems like the sabotaging which the riots covered was an attempt by certain individuals to overthrow the government. But the success of this wouldn't lead to civil war alone. The group that tried to take over isn't popular, and South Africans in general, even with all the underlying racism, would ban together to resist, which is what we are seeing now. And South Africans generally have a harsh sense of justice so the majority could call for blood. They also wouldn't have the support of the military so their coup attempt would fail. The problem of racial tension would arise though, as the current action from the far left is already stirring up the far right, the relics of the Ossewabrandwag, and the two would battle each other and attack the races that they are opposed to. But they are a minority. It would be a three way battle between the far right, the far left and the majority of South Africa. The majority will win, unless foreign forces start interfering, but the end result would be messy and set South Africa even further back.

Swift Justice have universal backing from most of the population, that is why a lot of communities are defending themselves but not killing people, but the problem, as always is the case, is that government are too lenient on people. Law and Order on the other hand means doing things by the book, which the government is doing, such as gathering evidence and doing things according to procedure, but they are getting criticized for doing so because it is slow.