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Sorry if you live in these US counties. Hopes of the American dream are long gone for you. Dead.

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Nowhere Man, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    We peaked around the late 60s, around the time of the Moon landings. Ever since then, it's been downhill. We haven't even been back to the Moon. We were supposed to have had a Moon base by now, as well as manned missions to Mars.

    I remember your opposition to proposals for rent and price controls, among other things.
     
  2. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    I'm sure 'Dan' will be happy to get back on the big screen:

     
  3. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    Sooo...who do you think is the top dog now?
     
  4. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Yes, I know. And I think we are falling more and more into the characteristics of the second world countries as described.

    My problem is that we no longer really belong in the same club as most of Europe and the rest of the developed world.

    I agree, our summit was not WWII. It was in the early 60's to mid 70's. We got scared from Sputnik and actually put resources into education. That lead to a peak in many ways in the early 70's. And, truthfully, we have been coasting since. This has been a long, gradual decline, but the rot is at the core now and I suspect the pace will quicken.
     
  5. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    Wow...you & I have very different values.
    I don't see the value in space exploration determined by the number of humans walking
    on other moons/planets. Instead, I want information leading to greater understanding.
    Unmanned probes & remote sensing technologies have given us far far more than the
    moon landings.
    Since the 60s, we've advanced greatly.
    A few examples....
    - Gotten rid of forced prayer in public schools.
    - Ended forced conscription of soldiers.
    - Legalized gay marriage.
    - Ended quotas in affirmative action.
    I oppose price controls, which are far from a "minor tweak".
    That would be descent into a command economy.
    You must've been a big fan of Nixon, eh.
     
  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    2nd world countries are "Eastern bloc of the communist-socialist states,"
    Ref....
    First, Second, and Third World - Nations Online Project
    I disagree with that assessment.
    We're better than they are in many respects, eg, free speech, freedom from forced servitude.
    Ain't nobody perfect.
    Which European country would you prefer to live in, & why?
    I too see a desire to coast, eg, so many millennials clamoring for socialism,
    free college, wanting for things they don't earn. But you're predicting that
    a trend you see will continue. It doesn't have to continue as it has.

    I recall in the late 60s one of my teachers lamenting the decline in student
    quality. My bro-in-law teaches engineering, & says new students are less
    prepared than in years past. While I see some merit in this here & there,
    it reminds me of....
     
  7. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    None of these examples have anything to do with America's quality of life or economic standing. These are more symbolic social issues which have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. (Besides, most of these advancements you cite happened as a result of the social changes brought about in the 60s, but even in that department, we've been relatively stagnant since then. The hippies sold out.)

    But this is a thread about the American Dream - part of which means relative improvement with each generation. Nowadays, we have millennials moving back in with their parents when it should be the other way around.

    Still, you seemed to suggest that it would be disastrous, which couldn't really happen in an economy as robust and vibrant as what is being suggested here.

    Nixon was the best Republican president America has had since Teddy Roosevelt. If you look at the other Republicans who have held office during the 20th and 21st centuries, none of them compare to Nixon. But no one can hold a candle to FDR.
     
  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    Really?
    Once again, you & I have very different values.
    What you find "symbolic" was a life & death matter to me.
    Agreement to disagree is the best course now.
     
  9. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    Even then, you missed the part I added after the part you quoted above.

    It's not that I don't value those things, but we were talking about something different.
     
  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    You think it's unrelated.
    I don't.
     
  11. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    So how do you define the American Dream? How do you define progress?

    Granted, we may have different values, but even within the context of your own values, can you honestly say that America has shown much progress over the past 50 years?

    Even in terms of social progress, Europe is far ahead of us. Even Germany, a country which only 75 years ago had a ruthless dictator in charge, while we had a progressive like FDR. They've advanced while we've gone backwards.

    There have certainly been scientific and technological improvements, but how much of it is truly American anymore? It all comes from overseas now. Do Americans invent anything anymore? Do we produce anything anymore?

    Being dependent upon other nations because we don't know how to make stuff is something that third world nations have to do.
     
  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    I gave some of my criteria.
    But a formal definition...don't have one.

    You keep pursuing this, but with our greatly
    different values, we're not going to agree.
     
  13. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    It's not that it really matters that much; we're just talking.

    It's not even that I'm "pursuing this" (whatever that means), but it appeared that you didn't understand why some people believe that there has been an overall decline in America. I was just trying to explain it and bring up points you might not have previously considered.

    I was thinking that you might try to reciprocate and bring up points that I might not have previously considered.

    I don't necessarily seek agreement here; I'm just interested in other people's beliefs and how they see the world.
     
  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    I'm interested in the things you thought irrelevant.
     
  15. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    So what's your position on toilet paper? Over or under?
     
  16. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    No.
     
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  17. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    [​IMG]
     
  18. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    We agree.
     
  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    So there's some libertarian in you after all.
     
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