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Sorry if you live in these US counties. Hopes of the American dream are long gone for you. Dead.

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Nowhere Man, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    And I agree. We are still better off than most. But we are in decline. I'm guessing we will be the 'Old Man' before too much longer.
     
  2. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe being a spoilt brat.

    But regardless, life is whatcha make of it.
    The USA is ridiculously far from perfect!
    Always has been, looks to continue.
    I just dont get listing all this shyt that is
    so awful, instead of going out and making
    the most of it!

    My bf's family fled with nothing ahead of
    the Nazi death camps. The are like upper east
    side now.

    Let those who will, complain. Let them.
     
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  3. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

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    Nah.
     
  4. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Adjusted for inflation we generally make less now than those who were in the past.

    Of course when you have 500 to even a thousand percent markup on products and services it's no small wonder why people just can't get ahead no matter how hard they try.
     
  5. Duke_Leto

    Duke_Leto Active Member

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    Because no matter to what extent worker productivity increases, capitalists will never pay much more than is required for workers to survive -- and often much under that. Thus we get social welfare, which enables companies to pay less and less, at least relative to inflation, and it keeps people complacent enough to not rise up en masse.
     
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  6. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    There's also the whole "socialism bad because lol" mentality. Not lookin' good, I'd say.
     
  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    I've not claimed that all is hunky dory.
    I've seen some things get better, & some decline.
    Sounds like once I left school, things went down hill, eh.
    Can this be quantified, just to ensure it isn't merely a pessimistic outlook?
    Actually, a couple heavy lifters are in the works.
    But I say our real space exploration hasn't been sending men into space.
    Sure, that's dramatic, but we get more info from unmanned probes &
    remote sensing. NASA's faster-better-cheaper has been very cost
    effective & productive. Telepresence is the future of space exploration.
    The differences are just a few years from the top spot to 31st.
    That's glib but unconvincing.
    One can focus upon what's awful, or on what's good.
    Perhaps you should be watching Breaking Bad or Game Of Thrones
    instead of Wheel Of Fortune or The Real Housewives Of Revoltistan?

    Do you really believe we're no longer a first world country,
    or was that a metaphor for dramatic effect.
     
    #27 Revoltingest, Apr 19, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  8. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
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    Here are some facts associated with these counties.

    The counties are found in 18 states.

    56% are in the southern states. 22% are in midwestern states. The remaining four are in western, northern and eastern states.

    72% are in red states.

    78% are in states that Trump won.

    90% of these counties were not won by Trump.
     
  9. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    It is entirely proper to remain optimistic and strong on a personal level and still note that the economic and social structure as a whole has gone south.
     
  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    I know that some people feel bad about things today.
    I measure status by metrics different from lefties.
    I see general progress in the last few years.
    Lefties see us going down da terlit....but that appears to
    be largely about anguish over hating Trump as a person.

    We're a third world country?
    That's losing touch with reality.
     
  11. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Social mobility is USA is going down precipitously. That's not a perception but fact.
     
  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    That doesn't address the claim made at the beginning of this
    discussion about Ameristan no longer being a first world country.

    A parenthetical aside....a question about mobility....
    How much is due to governmental/economic structure,
    & how much to a sub-culture of fecklessness?
     
    #32 Revoltingest, Apr 19, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  13. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    That's not the content of the OP post. First world, third world etc. are subjective comparisons. Here is a better way to parse the data.
    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/02_economic_mobility_sawhill_ch3.pdf

    The findings from cross-country research challenge the traditional view of the United States as a land with more mobility and opportunity than other countries. While cross-country comparisons of relative mobility rely on data and methodologies that are far from perfect, a growing number of economic studies have found that the United States stands out as having less, not more, intergenerational mobility than do Canada and several European countries. American children are more likely than other children to end up in the same place on the income distribution as their parents. Moreover, there is emerging evidence that mobility is particularly low for Americans born into families at the bottom of the earnings or income distribution.

    Though based on shakier evidence, mobility rates in less developed countries appear to be lower than in the United States in some instances, but not significantly different in others.


    Also see,
    https://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/Pathways-SOTU-2016-Economic-Mobility-3.pdf
     
    #33 sayak83, Apr 19, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  14. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    "Deadwood" is going to be a movie! Wow, I won't sleep tonight...
     
  15. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    I started conversing with Poly about his claim that we're no longer a
    1st world country. I disagreed, & gave my reasons. You joined in on that.
    Do you believe that we're a 3rd world country now?
     
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    I hope that Swejjin & Wu have another Who's-on-first moment.
     
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  17. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    It's not so much that we're a third world country yet, but that we've been slowly declining. In the years just after WW2, America was on top of the world, but not anymore. Our relative position in the world has been slipping. We're not in top form as we once were, and this has some people worried about the future.

    Besides, even you have talked about how America would face disaster if we made a few minor tweaks in policy. You've told me this many times whenever I've talked about some of my proposals for change. That wouldn't be possible if our position was as strong as you're implying here.
     
  18. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I don't yet think we are third world. But we are in the second tier now. Struggling to maintain and having a lot of political issues.
     
  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    I see enormous progress since WW2, both economically & socially.
    I don't know what "minor tweaks" you speak of.
    So I don't buy that argument.
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    Having political issues hardly makes us a non-1st world country.
    We've had nasty rancor before in my lifetime (Vietnam era), & we thrived.
    (Historically, it's been even worse...Civil War, WW1, WW2.)
    And we've made progress in social areas since then, particularly in civil liberties.

    Unlike some, I don't look back upon the post WW2 era as being our high point.
    One can look at what's wrong at the moment, & suffer from ennui.
    Or one can look at the total picture across time, & enjoy optimism.
    You told yourself that we're essentially a 3rd world country.
    But now you see us as a 1st world country with problems.
    I hope this change boosts your spirits.
    Too many people are steering themselves into a pessimistic funk.

    Parenthetical aside....
    I wondered if there were a "2nd world country" in between the "1st" & "3rd".
    There is, but it doesn't apply to us.
    Ref....
    First, Second, and Third World - Nations Online Project
     
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