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Featured Sooo -- are viruses alive?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by YoursTrue, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Some say yes, some say no. This is a precursor to other questions. But what do you think, based on your "scientific" knowledge? Are viruses alive?
     
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  2. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Maybe tho your "knowledge" has the breakthrough understanding to tell us what life is.
     
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  3. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    This depends on what you mean when you say something is alive.

    Different people have different definitions.

    Viruses do not have an internal metabolism. They do not eat or photosynthesize. They do not grow. They do not have senses. They have no reactivity, so they do not change their 'behavior' based on circumstances. So, in those senses they are not alive.

    But, viruses DO reproduce. They can be inactivated (often said to be killing them). They form in biological systems and act like parasites in many ways. So, in that sense, they act very much as if they are alive.

    So, the answer depends on which list of things you find most important. Most scientists put viruses in the 'not alive but can be killed' category.
     
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  4. darkskies

    darkskies Active Member

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    "Alive" has an ambiguous definition.
     
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  5. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Unactivated, no.

    Activated, yes.

    That strattling grey area.
     
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  6. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    True. We are nothing but atoms that are not regarded as alive, yet living beings are when atoms get together.
     
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  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Guess what we would see if evolution was true? We would find countless gray areas where people could not agree if something was "alive" or not.
     
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  8. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    You left out that viruses also undergo evolution and natural selection,,,, just like all living things.
     
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  9. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Yes, those should be included. They have genetics. But they do not have *both* DNA and RNA. Viruses have one or the other. Also, they do not have ribosomes to translate the genetic material into proteins. The host system does that.
     
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  10. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    It seems the scientific jury is out, but anyway -- living, non-living --.maybe yes, maybe no. But now -- let's say viruses are "alive," ok? And they morph, such as the variants of the covid-19 virus. Do they ever, according to scientific knowledge, become anything other than viruses??
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    No. Law of monophyly. The same reason that people are still apes.
     
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  12. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    OK, I kind of answered Twilight Hue about this, although it does get kind of technical in figuring out what's what, alive or not alive. So I will pose a similar question:
    Do variants of a virus such as the covid-19 ever, according to scientific knowledge, become anything other than a virus?? Not sure if science has deternined an answer.
     
  13. Left Coast

    Left Coast Circular File Complaint Analyst
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    Are you trying to present an argument against evolution here?
     
  14. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    In short if you go back far enough we are still bacteria, just on another branch of the evolution tree.
     
  15. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    If we also go back far enough, we dissolve if normally buried, into gases and move into the soil. So it makes sense that when the Bible says we are dust -- essentially that is reasonable. However -- I don't see proof that dust morphs or evolves by any reasonable equation into other forms of life. :) Thus dust does not evolve into an ant or a human. Humans stay humans, ants stay ants, and so far I see that viruses remain viruses. :) Although ants and humans can deteriorate (not evolve) to dust.
     
  16. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    I am asking if science ascertains that viruses, living or not according to scientific terms, are known to evolve to other forms of living matter. And now that I'm thinking about it, hmmm...how about non-living matter? Either way. Dust or not dust, non-living matter becoming living matter? Question's out. (Somewhat like what was before evoution? Life? Non-life?) So either viruses evolve into something else, or they stay viruses. Or maybe they're not alive. I mean -- which is it?
     
  17. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I think so.

    It seems viruses can and do evolve like any other living organism.


    How Viruses Evolve | Science | Smithsonian Magazine

    https://www.khanacademy.org/science/ap-biology/natural-selection/common-ancestry-and-continuing-evolution/a/evolution-of-viruses#:~:text=Viruses undergo evolution and natural,mixed" viruses with unique properties.
     
  18. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Now I'm not, and never was, a scientist in the technical sense. However, I remember learning about atoms and that there is space in them and between them, let's say, in a piece of furniture. So as a young student I figured an object like a piece of furniture, was a bunch of atoms with lots of space (so-called) between them.
     
  19. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Here's the thing with me. I hope you have not given me information you cannot personally explain. And now I'm beginning to understand more about the questioning in the book, "Darwin's Black Box." If I remember the title.
     
  20. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Does the article say or explain if or how viruses move to become (evolve) other forms of life? In other words, not viruses? Less or more complicated?
     
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