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Featured Song of Genesis 1

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Magus, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    I am studying both Hebrew and Greek , Every translation of Genesis 1:1 is wrong, even the Masoretic Text So i decided to translate it using a different methodolog by studying both the Septuagint and Masoretic to reconstruct the original song, here are my first three verses

    Gen 1:1-2
    In the Summit of Hermon
    We sang,
    O Hermon "Let there be an ensign upon this land"
    For the land was not one and behold darkness loomed over the abyss and the
    streams of Hermon washed over the waters

    Gen 1:3-5
    We sang
    "O Hermon , let there be light and there was light '
    'O Hermon, the light was good
    "O Hermon, separate the light and separate the dark
    O Hermon , the light was day and the light was dark
    There was evening and there was morning, the first day

    Gen 1:6
    We Sang
    " O Hermon
    Let there be new dry Land in the midst of the waters
    Let is separate the waters, that the waters come into being.

    Gen 1:7
    We Sang
    "O Hermon Let there be dry-land by dividing the waters
    O Hermen Separate the dry-land and separate the waters above the dry-land

    Gen 1:8
    We Sang
    O Hermon, The dry land we call the ensign
    and there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

    Gen 1:9
    We sang
    O Hermon
    Gather together the waters below the ensign and bring them together
    and behold, dry land appeared, , bring together the waters above the
    ensign and behold dry land appeared

    Gen 1:10
    We Sang
    O Hermon , the dry ground became the land and the the waters gathered together and it was called Jordan

    Gen 1:11-12
    We sing
    Oh Hermon
    bring forth from the land an enclosed pasture and sow the seeds of many varieties and let them bring forth fruit yielding trees that produce fruits and nuts of many kind all over the earth and the garden
    brought forth seeds of many kind and trees of many fruits with nuts inside them upon the land
    We Sang 'O Hermon ' it was beauteous and there was evening and there was morning, the third day.


    ---
    In the Masoretic, each verse begins ' God said' , were-as the Septuagint it is ' and sing, O God '
    why would the Masoretic read it as 1st person is beyond me.

    There is rhythm or a repetitive chant in from 1:1 to 2:4 containing Stanzas , each
    of which begins ' We sang' followed by the chorus. "O Hermon Let there be "
     
    #1 Magus, Sep 16, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
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  2. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    Please mods, please let me use the funny smily for this.
     
  3. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    Readers of the Talmud don't understand the Torah, What is a Noahide, 'Seven laws of Noah, where are these Laws in the story of Noah?, If you wanna challenge my translation throw away that silly Talmud, learn Hebrew-Greek and read the actual Torah.
     
  4. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    This is Mount Hermon , the geographical context of the song, a popular Ski resort among Israelis.

    Hermon has seasonal winter and spring snow falls, which cover all three of its peaks for most of the year. Melt water from the snow-covered mountain's western and southern bases seeps into the rock channels and pores, feeding springs at the base of the mountain, which form streams and rivers. These merge to become the Jordan River. Additionally, the runoff facilitates fertile plant life below the snow line, where vineyards and pine, oak, and poplar trees are abundant
     
  5. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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  6. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    It's important to you that "the hills melted"? Sorry, I just don't get it.

    What do you dislike about the Talmud? Cuz of what it says about Jesus?
     
  7. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    I updated my translation, will finish it very soon.



    The Talmud is not the Torah , Jews don't seem to read the Torah at all, they read the Talmud , there entire identity is the Talmud not the Torah.
     
  8. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    The Jews I got to know read and chanted verses from the Torah. At least the two I did Scripture studies with.

    Have you known many Jews?
     
  9. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Jews read the torah but your argument is that the text of the torah which we read is somehow wrong and you have a different text. You wrote in the OP "Every translation of Genesis 1:1 is wrong, even the Masoretic Text" but the Masoretic text isn't a translation. So if you decide that the Masoretic text is wrong then you are working from a different text. Why don't you show me YOUR Hebrew text so we can discuss how you translated the Hebrew words.
     
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  10. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    I have studied the Masoretic for some time now and i believe it is a translation of an early Aramaic and Greek text , the Septuagint however is older then the Masoretic and more honest

    I will start with the word 'Shamayim

    Here is my first verse
    - Let there be an ensign upon this land"

    This is actually similar to Zechariah 9:6
    'for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign

    The Hebrew for ensign is ' נֵס' as in Isaiah 13:2

    Isaiah 13:2 shaphah (old name for Hermon)
    - Lift ye up a banner ( נֵס) upon the high ( shaphah) mountain

    In the Septuagint, 'נֵס is σημεῖον (SHMEION)
    σημεῖον (Shmeion ) > שְׁמַיִן ( shamayin) > שָׁמַיִם (shamayim)

    Joshua 4:9
    And Joshua set up twelve stones in the midst of Jordan

    Gen 1:10
    O Hermon , the dry ground became the land and the waters gathered together and it was called Jordan ( River Jordan is formed from the melted snow of Mount Hermon )

    Jos 3:17 - LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan

     
  11. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    So you aren't using an actual Hebrew text, just deciding that the Masoretic text is wrong and constructing your own. Got it. Have fun.
     
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  12. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    I am using the Masoretic and Septuagint at the same time and study particular words and how they are rendered contextually.

    Deuteronomy 4:48
    Mount Sion, which is Hermon
    it should read ' the mountain of snow , which is Hermon '

    Deuteronomy 3:9
    Hermon, the Amorites call it Shenir

    According to the Lexicon, 'Shenir = Snow mountain , because the Gk word
    for Snow is KHION (χιών ) or dialectely, 'SHION' ( שְׂנִ )

    שְׂנִיר is 'שְׂנִ' (Snow) and 'הַר ' (Mount) thus 'Mountain of Snow and this is also the origin of הַר סִינַי

    Did not Sinai melt according to Judges 5:5 and Psalm 68:8 ?

    Here are more Torah verses you aught to read
    .
    Deuteronomy 2:36 ' מֵֽעֲרֹעֵר אֲשֶׁר עַל־שְׂפַת־נַחַל אַרְנֹן וְהָעִיר אֲשֶׁר בַּנַּחַל
    'from Aroer, brink of the river Arnon, from the city, that is by the river'
    Numbers 21:14
    Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD, What he did in the Red sea (Suphah) , and in the brooks of Arnon
    Deuteronomy 3:8
    The river of Arnon unto mount Hermon
    Psalm 68:14
    When the Almighty scattered kings in it, it was white as snow in Salmon (צַלְמוֹן)
    Judges 9:48
    Mount Salmon (צַלְמוֹן)

    In Judges 9:48, 'Mount Salmon' in the Septuagint is Mount Hermon

    Salmon is a dialectic form of Hermon
    Er Hrmon - Er Srmon - Er Slmon - Er Zlmon

    'Ir Shelom also known as Zion' (χιών )
    'Er Hermon also known as Sion ' ( Deu 4:48)

    Psa 133:3
    As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Snow (Zion χιών)
     
    #12 Magus, Sep 16, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  13. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    It is important to Learn about SNOW

    The Greek word for Snow , that is χιών KHION, as a locative noun it is χιώνὼν KHIONON and that is the origin of the name KNON כְּנַעַן that is also written QINI קֵינִי and QINIZ קְנִזִּי the Hebrew letter קֵ is called Qoph, that is Q and PH, because the Hebrew letter קֵ became the Gk letter PHI and so the name QINI or QINIZ in Gk became PHINI of PHINIZ that is φοίνικ 'Pheonic and thus the Greeks called them Phoenicians and also Lebanese, named for the white capped Mountains or as in the name Khonon ( כְּנַעַן) after the Snow capped mountains.

    The Hebrew word for frost or ice is קֶרַח ( Qerakh ) , in Greek that is κρύστ- Cryst- (>Crystal) and this word became ' Fryst ' ( קְ > F ) , thus the English words 'Frost, Frozen and Freeze' , the dialectic shift can be seen in another Hebrew word meaning Frost, that is כְּפוֹר ( Kfor ) ' KF > K , as in Frost and Frozen but also the word 'Crust', which means 'Skin because snow covers the land in a white skin , the Hebrew word for Skin is גֶּלֶד ( GLD ) and גליד ( GLID ) is the Hebrew word for Ice Cream , Aramaic ' גלידא' (GLIDA ) means Ice , which as a glass-like appearance thus the Hebrew word for Glass is 'גִּלָּיוֹן (GLIUN ) near identical to the Greek word meaning Glass, ὑάλινος (YALINOS) as well as the word GLASS itself because Ice is shiny and glittery (GLIT) thus became the word GOLD , the Hebrew word for gold is חָרוּץ (KRUTS) as in קֶרַח (QRKH) as in the Greek word for gold χρυσός (KRUSOS) ' and because Ice freezes גליד (GLID), we put hair JEL on our Hair, to freeze it up, thus the Arabic word for Ice is Jalid, as in the Latin word for Ice 'Gelu alike the Greek word for Glass ύαλος (Yalos)


    These verses now make sense

    Numbers 12:10 (Snow cloud )
    And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous
    white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.

    Exodus 4:6-7 ( The Snow from heaven )
    He put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous as snow

    Judges 5:4-5
    clouds also dropped water ... Sinai (snow) melted

    Isa 55:10
    For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth

    Gen 31:25
    Then Laban overtook Jacob. Now Jacob had pitched his tent in the mount:
    and Laban with his brethren pitched in the mount of Gilead ( Mountain of Snow )
     
    #13 Magus, Sep 16, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  14. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Except that this is wrong. The word is not Shenir, but S'nir, and none of that means snow so the Hebrew has no mention of snow. That is something you are reading in based on a jump you make in Greek. You have every right to make this composite text but recognize that it is a combination that is an invention based on illogical leaps that you have decided on. I could go on and point out that Psalms 68 doesn't say that Sinai melted and your leaps from Tzalmon (which you improperly transliterate) to anything else make no real sense. But you go on and create whatever you want to create if it makes you happy.
     
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  15. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    Are you aware of the geography of the Levant , the River Jordan is sourced from Mount Hermon

    The SNOW of that mountain melts , which feeds the springs and streams that merge to form the Jordan
    Isaiah 55:10 ' The SNOW watered the Earth ' .

    The Book of Jeremiah it writes 'swelling of Jordan ' (12:5 ) and the Hebrew word is גָּאוֹן (GAON ) as in KHION ( Snow ) and that is also the name of the Second River of Eden known as GIHON , that also appears in 2 CH 32:20 ' the upper watercourse of Gihon ' and in 2 Kings 2:21

    2Ki 2:21
    And he went forth unto the spring of the waters, and cast the salt in there
    2Ki 2:22
    So the waters were healed


    What does SALT do ? It melts SNOW, fresh water enters the rivers, they were manually melting the snow to feed the streams to water the gardens of Eden

    2Ki 2:13
    He took up also the mantle (addereth) of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank (SAPHAH ) of Jordan;
    2Ki 2:8
    And he took the mantle of Elijah(addereth) that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.
    1Ki 18:40
    Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon ( PISON )

    Gen 2:6 ( Fire melted snow, watered the earth )
    But there went up (עָלָה ) a mist (Fire-brand) from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

    1Ki 18:38
    Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice (עֹלָה), and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench (תְּעָלָה )

    Psa 104:3
    Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind, Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

    The name Jordan is cognate with ' ERI DANOS' meaning Early burnt, from a myth that a flaming chariot plunged into the River.

    This is the origin of the flaming PHOENIX or the flaming Cherub

    Deu 11:4
    And what he did unto the army of Egypt, unto their horses, and to their chariots; how he made the water of the Red ( Saphah) sea to overflow (tsuwph)

    Mic 1:4 ( the melting snow of Mount Hermon )
    And
    the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft
    as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place.
     
    #15 Magus, Sep 16, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  16. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    John 18:1
    over the brooks of Cedron, where was a garden

    All translations of this verse in the New Testament are wrong, the Greek word that they translate
    as 'Brooks' χείμαρρος (cheimarros) , the Lexicon definition is 'Flowing in winter' and using the Greek study
    tool, the meaning is the same 'winter-flowing, swollen by rain and melted snow'.

    PROOF
    www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5493&t=KJV
    www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=%CF%87%CE%B5%E1%BD%B7%CE%BC%CE%B1%CF%81%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82&la=greek


    2 Samuel 15:23
    ' Brooks of Kidron ' בְּנַחַל קִדְרֹון
    The Septuagint reads this as 'χειμάρρουν Κεδρων ' ( Kidron, flowing in snow )

    Deuteronomy 2:36 ' מֵֽעֲרֹעֵר אֲשֶׁר עַל־שְׂפַת־נַחַל אַרְנֹן וְהָעִיר אֲשֶׁר בַּנַּחַל
    'from Aroer, brink of the /winter flowing/ Arnon, from the city, that is by the cleft'

    'נַחַל appear twice in this verse, , the first time, in the Gk it is 'Xeimarrou' (Winter Valley)
    the second time it is 'φάραγγι' (Faraggi) meaning Cleft or Chasm.

    Judges 5:21 ' נַחַל קִישֹׁון '
    Brooks of Kishhom 'χειμάρρους Κισων ' ( Winter valley of Kison/Pison )

    Lam 2:18
    Their heart cried unto the Lord, O wall of the daughter of Zion
    let tears run down like a 'winter torrent' day and night:


    Deuteronomy 32:51
    the waters of Meribah-Kadesh (מְרִיבָה מְרִיבָה)in the wilderness (מִדְבָּר) of Zin(SNOW)


    Ezekiel 47:19
    And the south side southward, from Tamar(Phoenicia) even to the waters of strife in Kadesh (מְרִיבָה מְרִיבָה))

    Eze 47:17-19 ( See full verse for geographical context 0
    And the border from the sea shall be Hazarenan the border of Damascus, and the north northward, and the border of Hamath And this is the north side, And the east side ye shall measure from Hauran, and from Damascus, and from Gilead, and from the land of Israel by Jordan, from the border unto the east sea. And this is the east side,And the south side southward, from Tamar even to the waters of strife in Kadesh, the river to the great sea. And this is the south side southward, The west side also shall be the great sea from the border, till a man come over against Hamath. This is the west side.

    Num 13:21
    So they went up, and searched the land from the wilderness of Zin(SNOW) unto Rehob , as men come to Hamath.

    Jos 13:5
    And the land of the Giblites, and all Lebanon, toward the sunrising, from Baalgad under mount Hermon unto the entering into Hamath.

    Judges 3:3
    mount Lebanon, from mount Baal hermon unto the entering in of Hamath

    Gen 33:17( Syria-Lebanon)
    And Jacob journeyed to Succoth
    Exo 13:20
    they took their journey from Succoth

    Succoth, from Sucus ( Sap), as in the edible sweet sap of the Cedrus Libani
    grown in Lebanon, as in the feast of the tabernacle, Manna and Bdellium.

    Exodus 14:2
    that they turn and encamp before Pihahiroth,
    between Migdol and the sea, over against Baalzephon

    Songs 7:4
    Migdol of Lebanon which looketh toward Damascus.

    Deuteronomy 1:1 'מֹול סוּף ' ( Suwph Muwl ) )
    in the plain over against the 'Saphah' between Paran, and Tophel, and Laban (Lebanon) and Hazeroth, and Dizahab.

    Tophel from תֹּפֶל ( White)
    Laban ( White)
    Hazeroth * Hazarhatticon see Ezekiel 47:16
    חַוְרָן from חִוָּר meaning 'White ' - Dan 7:9 - White (Chivvar) as Snow

    Dizahab 'Fair weather cometh out of the north' * Job 37:22

    Isa 13:2 - Mount Saphah

    River of Blood' ( יְאֹר דָּם ) ' IAR DM' ( Ιορ δάν) ' Jordan ' or Eri Danus ( Burnt River)

    Psa 68:8
    The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: even Sinai (SNOW) itself was moved

    Amos 9:13 ' melting mountain ' ,
    the mountains shall drop (Nataph) sweet wine(`aciyc), and all the hills (Gibah) shall melt (Muwg)

    This is Mount Carmel ( Mountain of Wine ) and why Noah planted a Vineyard after the flood , the melting snow
    feeds the streams and rivers and thus the vineyards.

    Amo 9:5 ( melt-snow)
    And the Lord GOD of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt,

    Nah 1:5
    The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned
     
    #16 Magus, Sep 16, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  17. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    Numbers 33:41 ' from mount Hor, and pitched in Zalmonah
    צַלְמֹנָה - Tsalmonah
    Σελμωνα - Selmona

    Judges 9:48
    צַלְמוֹן - Tsalmown
    Ερμων - Ermon


    Psalms 68:14 ' White as snow in Salmon.
    צַלְמוֹן - Tsalmown
    Σελμων - Selmon


    Psalm 68:2 'Wax (downag) melteth before the fire'
    Ps 86:8 ' Sinai itself moved '

    Micah 1:4
    And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax(downag) before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place.
     
  18. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    הרים נזלו מפני ה' זה סיני מפני ה' אלקי ישראל

    Mountains / flowed / before / YH-H
    This / Sinai
    Before / YH-H / G-d / Israel

    ונמסו ההרים תחתיו והעמקים יתבקעו כדונג מפני האש כמים מגרים במורד

    And shall melt / the mountains / under Him
    And the valleys / shall be split
    Like wax / before / fire
    Like water / pouring / in a steep

    הנה ימים באים נאם ה' ונגש חורש בקצר ודרך ענבים במשך הזרע והטיפו ההרים עסיס וכל הגבעות תתמוגגנה

    Behold / days / coming /says / YH-H
    and will approach / plow-man / in (ie. to) harvester
    and treader / grapes / in (ie. to) puller (ie. bringer) / the seed
    And will drip / the mountains / wine
    and all / the hills / will melt

    הרים רעשו ממנו והגבעות התמגגו ותשא הארץ מפניו ותבל וכל ישבי בה

    Mountains / quaked / from Him
    And the hills / melted
    and raised up / the land / before Him
    and (inhabited) world / and all / settlers of / in her (ie. the world)


    ארץ רעשה אף שמים נטפו מפני אלקים זה סיני מפני אלקים אלקי ישראל

    Land / quaked / even / Heaven / dripped / before / G-d
    This / Sinai
    Before / G-d / G-d of / Israel

    Yeah. And then?
     
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  19. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    No you're not. Your using a transliteration of the MT and an LXX. What you're doing is looking for Hebrew words that when transliterated into English, appear similar to Greek words that would otherwise be unrelated. Then you're just swapping the Hebrew for the new Greek meaning.
     
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  20. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    They are three words in Nuham 1:5

    מוּג the Gk translation is τήκω (Teko) which means 'to make liquid and
    the meaning of מוּג is 'melt away' 'dissolve or soften..

    The Gk Teko that is cognate with הִתּוּךְ (HTUK) , used in Ezekiel 22:22 that writes 'Silver melted' another is נָתַךְ (NTK) that is used in Nuham 1:6 'Poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

    How dialect works, the Hebrew מוּג ( MUG) most likely as the same word root as the English word MELT, because G roles in GL ,
    Did you know the Armenian word for Jerusalem is Yerusaghemy and the Latin word for daughter, that is FILIA , this word appear to be unrelated
    to the Hebrew בַּת, but through a dialectic path, making the root the Linear B word Tu-Ka-Te
    (A) Tukate > Thugater (Gk) > Daughter
    (B) Tukate > Tbkate > Tbkte > Tbhte > Bhte > Bht > Bt ( בַּת )
    (C) Tukate > Tfkate > Tfkda >Fghia > Filia

    Judges 5:5
    The mountains melted NZL (נָזַל )

    Look at other verses use of this word
    Numbers 24:7 - He shall pour (NZL) the water out (NZL) of his buckets
    Songs 4:15 - A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams(NZL) from Lebanon.
    Jeremiah 18:14 - Will a man leave the snow of Lebanon which cometh from the rock of the field? or shall the cold flowing(NZL) waters that come from another place be forsaken?

    Sinai is only used 37 times in the Hebrew scriptures.

    Deuteronomy 33:2
    - came from Sinai
    -rose up from Seir
    -shined forth from mount Paran

    Well this geographical context is similar to Gen 14:6
    Horites in their mount Seir unto Elparan

    Joshua 11:17
    mount Halak, that goeth up to Seir
    Unto Baalgad in the valley of Lebanon under mount Hermon

    Joshua 12:7
    in the valley of Lebanon even unto the mount Halak that goeth up to Seir

    With the state of US educational system, i assume you have a poor sense of geography, so how do they jump
    from Sinai to Seir to Hermon.







     
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