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Son of God...pagan influences

Brian2

Veteran Member
Wow! :eek:

This is so incredibly absurd.

You are trying to match the Genesis Flood timeline with a hypothesis - the Black Sea Deluge hypothesis (BSDH) - that have been for decades systematically dismantled by evidence that BSDH have never occurred. BSDH is popular concept, BUT it is heading towards total failure, and more than likely becoming pseudoscience.

At the moment it is not pseudoscience even if scientists disagree on the evaluation of the evidence.
I picked this because it seems to be the best possibility so far. I can always go to vague ideas of events before that hypothesis is dated to.

But then you are faced with the rest of biblical timeline (Genesis, Exodus, Joshua, Samuel, Kings, the gospels, the Acts, etc) that are EVEN MORE OUT OF ALIGNED with history, archaeology, anthropology.

All that shows is your acceptance of secular history and rejection of Biblical history. Matching the Biblical chronology with the evidence shows a correlation between the Bible and the evidence imo.

To tell you the truth, I don't really care if you believe Genesis Flood equals BSDH.

You don't need science or archaeology or history to debunk the Bible, because you are doing great job at debunking the Bible with your own claims.

Bravo! :)

Yes I know that you want to debunk the Bible and have done so in your own mind anyway. My searching for answers in science for what the Bible claims runs into your scepticism and will always do that.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
All that shows is your acceptance of secular history and rejection of Biblical history.
There are biblical history, BUT like any other histories around the world, history needs VERIFICATION from more than one source - and the more sources there are, the better claim being “history”.

Independent sources, records of the same events.

Even better are archaeological evidence that are contemporary to the event or to the person or people involved.

In the Old Testament, most of the histories come from the books of kings, which we can verified from Assyrian annals that verify some of the reigns of rulers and common sources events, such as alliance formed, submissions or subjugation, wars or battles fought, etc.

I can tell you there are no such similar verification from Genesis to King Solomon’s, because they are all myths and many of the claims you have made (believing that they happened) in this thread, are either anachronistic (timeline of cities) or didn’t happen at all.

For instance. You claimed that you have evidence regarding to the Exodus, but not once have you presented any such evidence. You are just making claims without evidence.

More recently, you are relying on dubious hypothesis. I am referring to the Black Sea Deluge Hypothesis (BSDH).

Hypothesis are only proposed explanatory model.

You do understand what “proposed” mean, don’t you?

Proposed model, is like a draft or proposal, that can be accepted or rejected, depending on verification (checking or testing) and consensus that it has been thoroughly checked.

Hypothesis is only true, after it has been “tested” and “verified” by observations, meaning “evidence” and “data”, and not before verification. And BSDH don’t meet these requirements.

Back in the early days (2004) when I first heard of BSDH, in another forum before joining this one, I was very interested in learning more about BSDH, and like you, I was fascinated by this scenario, and that it could be possible aligned to Genesis Flood.

But the more I learned over the years, the more skeptical I became, because many of the claims are not supported by the evidence. Plus, it is 3000 years too early to be Genesis Flood.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
@Brian2

When you use BSDH’s 5600 BCE as your date for Noah’s Flood, you create whole boat loads of problems, where even ALL “biblical” events don’t match with historical events and archaeological timeline.

What I mean by “ALL” I mean everything in the Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament, from Abraham to Jesus, because every characters in the Bible would still be living in the Neolithic period, including Jesus!

The Neolithic period in the regions of Near East (from Iraq in the east, to Egypt, Levant and Anatolian Turkey in the west), lasted from 11000 BCE to 3100 BCE.

3100 BCE is the about the start of the Bronze Age, which lasted from 3100 BCE, to 1050 BCE, which would be followed by Iron Age.

Do you remember when I told you about there being only 292 years between the start of the Flood and Abraham’s birth?

The 292 years come from calculating the numbers of years between Flood and Abraham based on Genesis genealogy in Genesis 11.

If you seriously believe in 5600 BCE, then according to the timeline of Genesis 11, Abraham would be born in 5308 BCE in the time where there were no Egypt, no Mesopotamia (like no Uruk, no Ur, no Babylon, no Calch, etc, and only Nineveh would exist in 5308 BCE as some villages),

It would also mean Isaac be born in 5208 BCE and Jacob in 5148 BCE, and Jacob and his entire family migrated to Egypt in 5018 BCE, WHERE THERE WERE NO EGYPT to speak of, eg Egyptian kings, no dynasties.

There are only 2 to 3 generations between Levi and Moses, see Exodus 6 about Moses’ genealogy. And based on Exodus 12:40 “430 years”, Abraham, aged 85 would have received his covenant (Genesis 15) a year before Ishmael was born, which would date this chapter (about Abraham’s covenant) to 5223 BCE and Moses leaving Egypt from Rameses (Exodus 12:37) in 4793 BCE, where there were no Rameses and no Pithom, and Joshua starting his invasion in Canaan, beginning with Jericho in 4753 BCE.

The good news for you, that Jericho have been around since 9600 BCE, but the bad news, there was no Canaan between Abraham living in Canaan and Jericho falling to Joshua.

And according to 1 Kings 6:1, Solomon started building his temple in 4th year of his reign, 480 years after Moses leaving Rameses. This would put the foundation of the temple 4313 BCE, and after Solomon’s death, his kingdom would be divided into 2 - Israel and Judah. And that would mean the temple was destroyed by Neo-Babylonian army in 3933 BCE...

...EXCEPT there were no Israel, no Judah, no Neo-Babylonian army, no Nebuchadnezzar between 4313 and 3933 BCE.

And to make matter even worse, Jesus would have been born in 3352, where there was no Rome, no Bethlehem, no Augustus and no Herod the Great.

Do you see what I am getting at, Brian?

Your BSDH’s date of 5600 BCE, would push every events in the Bible back, by over 3000 years!

This is why, when you first brought up the Black Sea scenario for Noah’s Flood, you have basically destroyed the biblical timeline. You have basically debunked the Bible.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
There are biblical history, BUT like any other histories around the world, history needs VERIFICATION from more than one source - and the more sources there are, the better claim being “history”.

True but lack of verification of everything as you say does not mean it is false.
With Biblical history it seems that the documentary hypothesis, errors in the dating of Jericho, a misreading of the Bible stories and some bias against the Bible being true have conspired to cause errors in the dating of events in the Bible and has also led to not being able to find confirmation at the times secular history thinks the Bible is talking about.

I can tell you there are no such similar verification from Genesis to King Solomon’s, because they are all myths and many of the claims you have made (believing that they happened) in this thread, are either anachronistic (timeline of cities) or didn’t happen at all.

For instance. You claimed that you have evidence regarding to the Exodus, but not once have you presented any such evidence. You are just making claims without evidence.

I'm sure we have spoken about evidence for Israel in Egypt.
Here is a short video if I have not. I think it is cut short and misses the bit about the Vizier's residence with the 12 pillars and 12 graves, one of which is a pyramid (Joseph and brothers?) and the finding there of the remains of a statue which could have been a statue of Joseph in his coat of many colours.
If you watch it just skip over the introduction with Tim Mahoney.
I think I have also said that if moving of the dating of the Exodus to the 15th cent BC gives a good alignment with the book of Joshua and the archaeology of Canaan.
Given those 2 things, Israel in Egypt and the destruction in Canaan aligning with the Bible, this points to the Exodus also being true.
The Exodus story is a story of miracles however and in it God said that He preserved Israel in the wilderness for 40 years and did not even let their shoes wear out, so there could be good reason for lack of evidence of the wilderness story. But conditions in Canaan and Egypt fit well with the Exodus story through an earlier dating.
If you want to see some other things that a redating of Egyptian chronology and of Biblical Chronology would fix here is an interesting video and it even has some evidence of events in the Book of Samuel.

More recently, you are relying on dubious hypothesis. I am referring to the Black Sea Deluge Hypothesis (BSDH).

Hypothesis are only proposed explanatory model.

You do understand what “proposed” mean, don’t you?

Proposed model, is like a draft or proposal, that can be accepted or rejected, depending on verification (checking or testing) and consensus that it has been thoroughly checked.

Hypothesis is only true, after it has been “tested” and “verified” by observations, meaning “evidence” and “data”, and not before verification. And BSDH don’t meet these requirements.

Back in the early days (2004) when I first heard of BSDH, in another forum before joining this one, I was very interested in learning more about BSDH, and like you, I was fascinated by this scenario, and that it could be possible aligned to Genesis Flood.

But the more I learned over the years, the more skeptical I became, because many of the claims are not supported by the evidence. Plus, it is 3000 years too early to be Genesis Flood.

Some people disagree with the BSDH and others agree.
It is not 3000 years too early if it aligns with the building of various cities mentioned in Gen 11 and if the genealogies of Gen 1-11 are not chronological as we have today, and generations are missing.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Some people disagree with the BSDH and others agree.
It is not 3000 years too early if it aligns with the building of various cities mentioned in Gen 11 and if the genealogies of Gen 1-11 are not chronological as we have today, and generations are missing.
It is too early if actually want it to meet with the timelines of Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, and even Jesus, because a gap of 3000 years between Flood and later timelines are just huge.

Second, not all cities mentioned about Nimrod (Genesis 10) are dated archaeologically at the same times.

Uruk (Erech) may have been as old as 5000 BCE (the oldest settlement) and Nineveh about 6000 BCE, but Akkad about 2500 BCE, pre-dynastic Babylon about 2200 BCE, and Kalhu (or Calch) around 1250 BCE.

For Genesis Nimrod to built all the cities mentioned in Assyria (especially Nineveh and Calch/Kalhu), Nimrod would have to live about 4750 years. That's the gap between Nineveh and Calch, the earliest dates of their foundation.

So do you think Nimrod could possibly live that long?

Second. We actually do know the name of founder of Kalhu (Calch). It is Shalmaneser I of Assyria, not Nimrod. Shalmaneser I ruled in the early 13th century BCE.

Third, the city of Kalhu (Calch) is even younger than the Rameses (Pi-Ramesses in Egyptian) in Exodus 1 & 12, and centuries younger than Jericho being deserted (approximately 1570 BCE).

And setting the Genesis Flood date to the same date as BSDH, don't help the bible at all.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
It is too early if actually want it to meet with the timelines of Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, and even Jesus, because a gap of 3000 years between Flood and later timelines are just huge.

Second, not all cities mentioned about Nimrod (Genesis 10) are dated archaeologically at the same times.

Uruk (Erech) may have been as old as 5000 BCE (the oldest settlement) and Nineveh about 6000 BCE, but Akkad about 2500 BCE, pre-dynastic Babylon about 2200 BCE, and Kalhu (or Calch) around 1250 BCE.

For Genesis Nimrod to built all the cities mentioned in Assyria (especially Nineveh and Calch/Kalhu), Nimrod would have to live about 4750 years. That's the gap between Nineveh and Calch, the earliest dates of their foundation.

So do you think Nimrod could possibly live that long?

Second. We actually do know the name of founder of Kalhu (Calch). It is Shalmaneser I of Assyria, not Nimrod. Shalmaneser I ruled in the early 13th century BCE.

Third, the city of Kalhu (Calch) is even younger than the Rameses (Pi-Ramesses in Egyptian) in Exodus 1 & 12, and centuries younger than Jericho being deserted (approximately 1570 BCE).

And setting the Genesis Flood date to the same date as BSDH, don't help the bible at all.

I think there is really just too much that we don't know. We don't know how much of a gap there is in the genealogies and we don't know what sort of later editing was done to align city names with later names and we don't know if the names in the list of nations is people or nations and we don't know if earlier towns existed under places where later and larger ones were built and we don't know where the chaldeans came from and if they were in UR at the time of Abraham and etc. We don't even know whether it was Nimrod who established multiple cities or if it was his descendants.
There are many things in the Bible like this and later findings have verified what the Bible says. That is the view of faith anyway. We cannot say for sure that the Bible is not right in what it says of the period between the flood and the Patriarchs.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
As you know, in the Christian scriptures (New Testament), Jesus is mentioned as the “Son of God”, being of divine origin, God, with a mortal mother, Mary, so biologically part god and part human. His conception “supernatural” or “unnatural”, while his birth natural.

In Genesis 2, Adam was created from dust, and given life from God’s breath, hence a living soul, human. But Adam is usually seen as god’s creation, not as god’s son in the (literal) biological “reproduction” sense.

With Jesus, there are simply no precedence in the Hebrew Scriptures, nor in Judaism, where God fathered an offspring upon a mortal woman.

But in other (polytheistic) religions and myths, from other ancient civilizations and cultures, such children were born from divine and mortal parentage, and were called demigods.

Gilgamesh was such a one, whose father was Lugalbanda and mortal, while his mother was the goddess.

Dionysus, Minos, Perseus, Heracles (Hercules), Polydeuces (Pollux), Helen and many others, were all children of Zeus and mortal women. Poseidon, Ares, Hermès and Apollo have many children with mortal women.

Achilles was son of Peleus and goddess Thetis, while Aeneas was son of Anchises and goddess Aphrodite. Far fewer goddesses would have have children with mortal men.

The question is why an Abrahamic religion, like Christianity, that is supposed to be monotheistic, would choose to follow foreign pagan example?
It is because of Paul who invented a new Religion and named it "Christianity" that has got nothing to do with Jesus and or Mary. Paul's intention was to deviate the followers of Jesus from the path Jesus followed, I understand. Right?

Regards
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
It is because of Paul who invented a new Religion and named it "Christianity" that has got nothing to do with Jesus and or Mary. Paul's intention was to deviate the followers of Jesus from the path Jesus followed, I understand. Right?

Regards
No paarsurrey, Paul never meant to deviate the followers of Jesus from the path that Jesus followed. So far as I understand, Jesus appeared to Paul and gave him a mission to teach non-Jews about His teaching. He was originally called Saul, later Paul.

Acts 9:3 Context: As he traveled, it happened that he got close to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the sky shone around him.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
As you know, in the Christian scriptures (New Testament), Jesus is mentioned as the “Son of God”, being of divine origin, God, with a mortal mother, Mary, so biologically part god and part human. His conception “supernatural” or “unnatural”, while his birth natural.

In Genesis 2, Adam was created from dust, and given life from God’s breath, hence a living soul, human. But Adam is usually seen as god’s creation, not as god’s son in the (literal) biological “reproduction” sense.

With Jesus, there are simply no precedence in the Hebrew Scriptures, nor in Judaism, where God fathered an offspring upon a mortal woman.

But in other (polytheistic) religions and myths, from other ancient civilizations and cultures, such children were born from divine and mortal parentage, and were called demigods.

Gilgamesh was such a one, whose father was Lugalbanda and mortal, while his mother was the goddess.

Dionysus, Minos, Perseus, Heracles (Hercules), Polydeuces (Pollux), Helen and many others, were all children of Zeus and mortal women. Poseidon, Ares, Hermès and Apollo have many children with mortal women.

Achilles was son of Peleus and goddess Thetis, while Aeneas was son of Anchises and goddess Aphrodite. Far fewer goddesses would have have children with mortal men.

The question is why an Abrahamic religion, like Christianity, that is supposed to be monotheistic, would choose to follow foreign pagan example?
There is a connection but it's actually the opposite of what you think. They were copying God's plan. Satan knew from the beginning that God's Son would come and so he decided to make his own race of people. This is why in Genesis it says

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

So even though the seed of the woman (Jesus) would come; yet this makes clear that Satan would also have his own "seed".

According to Genesis chapter 6 this happened. The "Sons of God" (angels) had children with human women. Their offspring were the "men of renown". These "men of renown" should remind you of Hercules, Gilgamesh etc. They were mythical figures and children of the "gods".

Satan wanted his own people on earth to corrupt mankind both spiritually and genetically so they could help him stop the prophesied "seed of the woman" which is Jesus Christ. This is why God needed to send the flood and only saved Noah because he was "perfect in his generations". Which also in Hebrew means he was perfect in his lineage. So he wasn't corrupted genetically. And he would be the ancestor of Jesus Christ.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
There is a connection but it's actually the opposite of what you think. They were copying God's plan. Satan knew from the beginning that God's Son would come and so he decided to make his own race of people. This is why in Genesis it says

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

So even though the seed of the woman (Jesus) would come; yet this makes clear that Satan would also have his own "seed".

According to Genesis chapter 6 this happened. The "Sons of God" (angels) had children with human women. Their offspring were the "men of renown". These "men of renown" should remind you of Hercules, Gilgamesh etc. They were mythical figures and children of the "gods".

Satan wanted his own people on earth to corrupt mankind both spiritually and genetically so they could help him stop the prophesied "seed of the woman" which is Jesus Christ. This is why God needed to send the flood and only saved Noah because he was "perfect in his generations". Which also in Hebrew means he was perfect in his lineage. So he wasn't corrupted genetically. And he would be the ancestor of Jesus Christ.

Are you saying that some people are just evil because they descended from those angel/human unions?
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Are you saying that some people are just evil because they descended from those angel/human unions?
More or less. I believe that's where many demons come from who are not fallen angels. According to the book of Enoch they came out of the bodies of the giants who died in the flood or before the flood. They are evil spirits. This seems to have been allowed because of their angelic parentage. So these spirits remained on earth after the body died.

But does that mean that they must be evil? No I don't believe so. I think they had a choice. However by the time they died; they had chosen evil and their disembodied spirits are evil and plague the human race to this day.

Of course there is something else to consider. Many normal, average people could be descended from Nephilim to this day. That doesn't mean they have to be evil. They can repent and they aren't going to be lost if they do. Because Jesus died for humanity and if they have humanity; then Jesus died for them.

Really according to the Bible all flesh is evil. Paul called his own body "vile". (Philippians 3:21) Not because we are all getting older. No, it was because he knew that his body had desire for sin. It's in us all. No one is good. So we can't judge those who could perhaps trace their lineage back to some Nephilim somewhere in their family tree. We all have sin in our flesh and we all need Jesus to change our "vile bodies" to be like his. That's what Jesus came to do. All the works of Satan will be destroyed and his attempt to corrupt the human race is included. God will take care of it. Again just because someone has that in their family tree; that doesn't mean they are damned and it doesn't mean they can't be born again as the children of God. Because that's the power of Jesus Christ. He put the flesh to death on the cross and he put all curses to death and He rose free forever. So all curses and all evil are overcome in the cross of Jesus Christ and he says "I make all things new".
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I think there is really just too much that we don't know. We don't know how much of a gap there is in the genealogies and we don't know what sort of later editing was done to align city names with later names and we don't know if the names in the list of nations is people or nations and we don't know if earlier towns existed under places where later and larger ones were built and we don't know where the chaldeans came from and if they were in UR at the time of Abraham and etc. We don't even know whether it was Nimrod who established multiple cities or if it was his descendants.
There are many things in the Bible like this and later findings have verified what the Bible says. That is the view of faith anyway. We cannot say for sure that the Bible is not right in what it says of the period between the flood and the Patriarchs.

You are just speculating and making excuses.

There are no biblical writings in the Bronze Age, neither in the 3rd millennium BCE (nothing from Enoch and Noah), nor in the 2nd millennium BCE (nothing recorded from Abraham to Joshua and the Judges).

Even in the early Iron Age, there are no one writing books of Samuel, Kings, Psalms, Proverbs, from Saul to Solomon.

None of these books from Genesis to Kings existed until either the late 7th century BCE (eg reign of Josiah) or more likely the 6th century BCE (eg Babylonian Exile and the so-called Second Temple period).

There are some real historicity to be found in the books of Kings, but only when there were already two kingdoms, Israel and Judah, where we can actually timeline of kings to independent sources, like from Assyrian royal archives and annals that recorded some kings’ names being contemporaries with Assyrians. The Assyrians recorded no David, nor Solomon, and neither did the contemporary Egyptians.

So Genesis didn’t exist until the the 6th century BCE, so Genesis and Exodus were never written by Moses, which make Moses being a mythological character too. Genesis to Deuteronomy May have been attributed to Moses, according to Jewish and Christian traditions, but there are no Late Bronze Age Torah or Pentateuch in existence.

So about Genesis 10 writing about Egypt, and Nimrod building cities in Babylonia (Shinar) and Assyria, were just myths, writing after the facts' but with 6th century BCE, having no real histories of what happened to the Hebrew people prior to the existence of Israel and Judah kingdoms.

Genesis 11 about Chaldeans in Ur, wrong; Genesis 11 establishing ties between Chaldeans and Ur, are anachronistic. The only people that established themselves and spread through Babylonia, were the Amorites, who established Babylon as their capital and the 1st dynasty of Babylon were actually Amorites, not Chaldeans.

There are no records of Chaldeans living in 2nd millennium BCE Old and Middle Babylonian periods, which coincided with Middle Bronze Age and Late Bronze Age, The Chaldeans didn’t exist in this region, not until the 10th century BCE, in Assyrian annals, when they migrated into the region between Ur and marshy region to the shoreline of Persian Gulf.

And I have written previously, Egyptian culture predated the 1st dynasty, as did the pre-Sumerian Uruk (Erech) and Ur, both of them thriving cities, since the beginning of the 4th millennium BCE. Archaeologists even named MOST of the 4th millennium BCE, as the Uruk period (c 3800 - c 3100 BCE).

The Sumerian proper began with the Jemdet Nasr period (c 3100 - 2900 BCE).

But Uruk predated the Uruk period. The oldest settlement of Uruk was founded around 5000 BCE. Nineveh is even older, at around 6000 BCE. Both Nineveh and Uruk formed in the Ubaid period (6500 - 3800 BCE).

Ubaid, Uruk and Jemdet Nasr periods are all named after the distinctive types and styles of pottery being used at these periods, and developed in each of these towns (Tell al-Ùbaid, Uruk (Unug) and Tell Jemdet Nasr).

Genesis 10 (about Egypt, Nimrod with Babylonia & Assyria) & 11:28 (about Ur and the Chaldeans) don't verify anything. All it shown that there are not much historicity in Genesis.

There are also not much historicity about what Exodus say about Rameses (Egyptian Pi-Ramesses) and Joshua about Jericho and Megiddo.

The actual city of Pi-Ramesses wasn’t constructed until the 19th dynasty, where Seti named the city after his father Ramesses I, but it was completed until by Seti’s son, Ramesses II. And Pi-Ramesses was a city with summer palace, not a supply town, as Exodus 1 stated.

The construction of Pi-Ramesses (13th century BCE), post-dated Jericho abandonment around 1570 BCE. Another thing Bible got wrong.

Clearly Genesis, Exodus and Joshua are completely unreliable sources. It only have invented myths about the regions and cities these books mentioned.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
As you know, in the Christian scriptures (New Testament), Jesus is mentioned as the “Son of God”, being of divine origin, God, with a mortal mother, Mary, so biologically part god and part human. His conception “supernatural” or “unnatural”, while his birth natural.

In Genesis 2, Adam was created from dust, and given life from God’s breath, hence a living soul, human. But Adam is usually seen as god’s creation, not as god’s son in the (literal) biological “reproduction” sense.

With Jesus, there are simply no precedence in the Hebrew Scriptures, nor in Judaism, where God fathered an offspring upon a mortal woman.

But in other (polytheistic) religions and myths, from other ancient civilizations and cultures, such children were born from divine and mortal parentage, and were called demigods.

Gilgamesh was such a one, whose father was Lugalbanda and mortal, while his mother was the goddess.

Dionysus, Minos, Perseus, Heracles (Hercules), Polydeuces (Pollux), Helen and many others, were all children of Zeus and mortal women. Poseidon, Ares, Hermès and Apollo have many children with mortal women.

Achilles was son of Peleus and goddess Thetis, while Aeneas was son of Anchises and goddess Aphrodite. Far fewer goddesses would have have children with mortal men.

The question is why an Abrahamic religion, like Christianity, that is supposed to be monotheistic, would choose to follow foreign pagan example?

The OT talks about "sons of god" who impregnated "daughters of men" and made the Nephilim. Jesus was not one of these dudes.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
Mary was a "daughter of men", and she was impregnated by whom specifically?

The verses were written before Mary was born. Technically, she is one, but at the time, who knows who it was talking about? My post was just saying that the terms "son of god" and "sons of gods" really need to be clarified.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
The verses were written before Mary was born. Technically, she is one, but at the time, who knows who it was talking about? My post was just saying that the terms "son of god" and "sons of gods" really need to be clarified.
Sure, but until we know precisely who impregnated Mary, the possibility remains that it may have been by ben elohim. Is the angel Gabriel a ben elohim?
 
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