Something (else) I don't get about Christianity

[astarath]

You don't agree with anything anybody says unless they agree with you.

Or unless I agree with them(if it is their original thought and it is consistent with the tenets of my faith.)

The God you are describing is indeed falliable and incorrect

The God I just described is not falliable, just his creations.

 

[UnTheist]

You don't agree with anything anybody says unless they agree with you.

Or unless I agree with them(if it is their original thought and it is consistent with the tenets of my faith.)

The God you are describing is indeed falliable and incorrect

The God I just described is not falliable, just his creations.

God knew what He was creating, so He made us falliable. With great power comes great responsibility. God obviously didn't keep up to that.

 

[Othello]

God knew what He was creating, so He made us falliable. With great power comes great responsibility. God obviously didn't keep up to that.

Exactly.

---
To the original question, I say: Don't worry about "God" allowing you to enter heaven or sending you to hell. Until you experience it and can prove it, the two places don't exist. (IMO: They're just hogwash created by religion to scare people into believing)
Live life to the fullest here and now, and stop worrying about some place you don't know about...

 

[Katzpur]

Until you experience it and can prove it, the two places don't exist.

Explain to me how our inability to prove something means it doesn't exist. Just stop and consider the fact that during the past 75 years, science has discovered 26 previously unknown elements. Does that mean they didn't exist before they were proven to exist?

I'm not trying to imply that science is ever going to be able to prove the existence of Heaven and Hell. I'm simply pointing out that lack of proof is not necessarily anything more than lack of proof.

(IMO: They're just hogwash created by religion to scare people into believing)

Well, it's good to know that what was fact just two sentences ago is now simply a matter of opinion.

By the way, I just noticed where you're from. I just wanted to mention that NYC is my absolute favorite city in the U.S. There's nowhere like it, is there?

 

[Comprehend]

... we do not understand Heaven to be a one-size-fits-all kind of place, but that we will each be rewarded according to our faithfulness, with some receiving a greater portion of God's glory than others.

Which is different than the way it works in this life right?

EDIT: sorry, couldn't resist. wrong debate...

 

[Katzpur]

Which is different than the way it works in this life right?

EDIT: sorry, couldn't resist. wrong debate...

Good try, but I'm not bitin'.

 

[Comprehend]

Good try, but I'm not bitin'.

thought I would give it a shot.

 

[Super Universe]

God knew what He was creating, so He made us falliable. With great power comes great responsibility. God obviously didn't keep up to that.

Where in the night sky does it say "It's all about you!"

The universe does not exist to please humans and make you rich and happy.

It's the other way around.

 

[!Fluffy!]

Mercy,

The kind of heresy in the OP only applies to fundamental evangelical Christianity in America.

I don't think that this reflects Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Coptic Christianity. Orthodoxy - and even the Reformers - taught that Chrisitian living is just as important or more so than belief in Jesus Christ to get to heaven.

The heresy propounded in the OP is a very modern idea and has no place in Christian teaching whatsoever.

Thank you.

 

[UnTheist]

Where in the night sky does it say "It's all about you!"

The universe does not exist to please humans and make you rich and happy.

It's the other way around.

I never said it was all about me. We exist so we can survive and pass on our genes. As well as trying to be happy.

But God knows the risk of creating something. They might turn against Him. And that is not a good enough reason to toture them for eternity. If you disagree, I would love to hear it

 

[Super Universe]

I absolutely disagree.

When was hell mentioned in the Old Testament? Never. Thousands of years passed and revelation came many times yet not once was there any mention of eternal hell.

Christ revealed the concept of burning a soul in hell because at the time of Christ's bestowal upon the earth Lucifer had begun his rebellion in the higher dimensions.

Christ's warning was meant for Lucifer, and in a way to us as well but we wouldn't be punished for anything we do in the 3rd dimension.

Only when we've matured into sentient universal beings are we responsible for our choices. No one condemns an unknowing child to death.

Here, in the 3rd dimension of material existence you have complete freewill to do anything you wish. God does not expect you to be born knowing right from wrong and consequences of action and inaction. If God expected or wanted that then it would immediately be so.

God created the 3rd dimension so that you could obtain your own experiences and learn right from wrong on your own. Think of a parent who drops their child off at school.

 

[porkchop]

I think I have a good grasp on what God sees as 'good'

Sadly, my mom think non-believers will go to Hell, and she always uses that as en excuse. She thinks not believing is the worst thing a human being could possibly do against God.

Listen to your mum.

 

[Katzpur]

Sadly, my mom think non-believers will go to Hell, and she always uses that as en excuse. She thinks not believing is the worst thing a human being could possibly do against God.

Listen to your mum.

Since I am the mother of two adult children (neither of whom is religious), I suspect that your mom's statement was made out of love and concern. Unfortunately, I don't think she has stopped to consider the fact that it is impossible for a person to believe simply because someone else has told him he'll burn in Hell if he doesn't. Belief isn't something that can be turned on and off with a switch. Furthermore, I don't think that God would want us to believe in Him because mommy said we should. I'm so glad I was raised in a home where I was taught to question and to come to my own conclusions. I wouldn't have the faith I have today if I'd just blindly accepted everything I was ever taught.

 

[Othello]

Explain to me how our inability to prove something means it doesn't exist. Just stop and consider the fact that during the past 75 years, science has discovered 26 previously unknown elements. Does that mean they didn't exist before they were proven to exist?

I'm not trying to imply that science is ever going to be able to prove the existence of Heaven and Hell. I'm simply pointing out that lack of proof is not necessarily anything more than lack of proof.

Things don't exist until they are discovered and are verified by tangible evidence and testimony. With a lack of proof, something would only be a belief/theory, not fact.

Regarding the elements: I don't see how you can compare conrete things like elements to very abstract things like dogma.

Well, it's good to know that what was fact just two sentences ago is now simply a matter of opinion.

By the way, I just noticed where you're from. I just wanted to mention that NYC is my absolute favorite city in the U.S. There's nowhere like it, is there?

Opinions can contain fact. If two people argue over the color of a banana, one stating that bananas are yellow, it would be both their opinion and fact wouldn't it?

There really is no place like New York!

 

[Katzpur]

Things don't exist until they are discovered and are verified by tangible evidence and testimony.

Huh? So the dinosaur bones that have been unearthed during the past several hundred years only became real once they were discovered? Before that, they didn't exist?

With a lack of proof, something would only be a belief/theory, not fact.

I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. Ultimate reality has absolutely nothing to do with either theory or fact. It's just reality waiting to be realized.

Regarding the elements: I don't see how you can compare conrete things like elements to very abstract things like dogma.

I'm not, though. What I'm trying to say is my belief in Heaven and Hell has absolutely nothing to do with whether they really exist, as does your lack of belief. So it's really impossible for either one of us to state our opinion on the matter as if it were fact.

Opinions can contain fact. If two people argue over the color of a banana, one stating that bananas are yellow, it would be both their opinion and fact wouldn't it?

Exactly, just as they can contain fallacy.

 

[Reverend Rick]

People want to rationalize and debate with God? There is no debate with God. There is no room for contempt. If there was proof, the faith requirement would be a no brain-er huh?

What I don't understand is why this is such an issue. If you don't believe in God, why concern your self about the terms to get to an afterlife?

 

[autonomous1one1]

Greetings Mercy Not Sacrifice.
My view on getting into heaven is outside the scope of your OP, which is pointed at questions for specific Christians. Therefore, I apologize at the outset for responding but I wanted to offer a totally different perspective.

For me, heaven and hell are not places one goes to for all eternity after death. They are more like states within the being, or kinds of being, during life. A hard line need not be drawn between hell and a good life; and one notes only that living in hell is the worst and living in heaven is the best. But the latter in my view is a unique kind of being during life. There are degrees in between. One can be a ‘good’ person, doing good and loving others, and live a happy life without belief in God. This would not fit my thought for hell, but neither would it fit my thought on heaven. It would be a ‘nice life’ however.

With this ‘nice life’ one is estranged from God, lives in finitude with death a certainty, may have suffering of many different types, and likely has love that is limited. On the other hand, Love of God and ultimately union with God offers life on a different plane. Once estrangement from God is overcome (during life), finitude and death are transcended and eternal life is realized, much suffering is avoided, and love is enhanced into unconditional, universal agape. That is heaven, the Kingdom of God, and is within us for the living.

It is interesting to note that 'Love God' and 'Love your Neighbor' as mentioned by Astarath are conditions for my heaven as well. (For me, Neighbor is all else.)

Best Wishes,
a1

 

[uumckk16]

An infallable God with an incorrect teaching?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that I am quite sure you know that is not what I meant.

 

[UnTheist]

Listen to your mum.

Think for yourself

 

[UnTheist]

Huh? So the dinosaur bones that have been unearthed during the past several hundred years only became real once they were discovered? Before that, they didn't exist?

I believe it is somewhere in solipsism. The idea is that without an observer, there is no reality.