Some remarks on Noah

[robocop (actually)]

OK since we had a hard time looking at science and religion together with Noah's ark I have tried to study the Torah about it for a while and although I have trouble focusing when I read due to mental illness I have some thoughts:

Morally, man is superior to all the animals, that God would squeeze the population down to 1 to make it better, that we can be renewed, and that it's just a cool story to tell children make it good to me. I read that Noah entered the ark at midday so that would make people back off because he was morally upright. I like to think that Noah could be so righteous that God would start the entire human race through him. And yet, he had problems afterwards and sometimes after an adventure we all do that. Just like Noah's Ark was an extremely difficult thing for humanity and God to do, it is extremely difficult for humanity to understand how Noah's Ark could have happened. God's promise that things would be regulated for humanity afterwards so they could always survive makes me feel good about it.
I can't really think of much bad about the story.

Scientifically, I have some ideas.

They could have used bird feeders. They could have dumped poop. They could have taken the animals for walks. A Korean study said the ark could float although I believe God took it into his hand (I'm not supposed to share that but that's from the Pearl of Great Price in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). I think from the Hebrew that the ark didn't rise up right away so it wouldn't be dashed into a mountain.

Only animals with nostrils came into the ark. I wonder if he collected DNA samples. Separating animals after the flood could be like parting the red sea. Gathering animals could be like the ten plagues.

I think it says they used steel or something and maybe it was just a little earlier than history says.

I think it could have just been the fertile crescent and other cultures heard about it and made their flood myths. I don't see how we'd know geographically that a flood hit the fertile crescent for 40 days.

The water could have been set up in the creation and so we don't know how so much water came.

Anyway, them's my thoughts until I can remember more.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Idle musings does not fix the endless problems with the flood and why we know that it did not happen.

 

[F1fan]

OK since we had a hard time looking at science and religion together with Noah's ark I have tried to study the Torah about it for a while and although I have trouble focusing when I read due to mental illness I have some thoughts:

Morally, man is superior to all the animals, that God would squeeze the population down to 1 to make it better, that we can be renewed, and that it's just a cool story to tell children make it good to me.

God never flooded the planet because animals had bad morals.

Plus, a competent God would have designed humans in a way that wouldn't require a reset or renewal. The story suggests God is incompetent.

 

[F1fan]

Scientifically, I have some ideas.

Scientifically there is no genetic bottleneck where it should be, so there was no Noah flood.
`

 

[Lain]

OK since we had a hard time looking at science and religion together with Noah's ark I have tried to study the Torah about it for a while and although I have trouble focusing when I read due to mental illness I have some thoughts:

Morally, man is superior to all the animals, that God would squeeze the population down to 1 to make it better, that we can be renewed, and that it's just a cool story to tell children make it good to me. I read that Noah entered the ark at midday so that would make people back off because he was morally upright. I like to think that Noah could be so righteous that God would start the entire human race through him. And yet, he had problems afterwards and sometimes after an adventure we all do that. Just like Noah's Ark was an extremely difficult thing for humanity and God to do, it is extremely difficult for humanity to understand how Noah's Ark could have happened. God's promise that things would be regulated for humanity afterwards so they could always survive makes me feel good about it.
I can't really think of much bad about the story.

Scientifically, I have some ideas.

They could have used bird feeders. They could have dumped poop. They could have taken the animals for walks. A Korean study said the ark could float although I believe God took it into his hand (I'm not supposed to share that but that's from the Pearl of Great Price in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). I think from the Hebrew that the ark didn't rise up right away so it wouldn't be dashed into a mountain.

Only animals with nostrils came into the ark. I wonder if he collected DNA samples. Separating animals after the flood could be like parting the red sea. Gathering animals could be like the ten plagues.

I think it says they used steel or something and maybe it was just a little earlier than history says.

I think it could have just been the fertile crescent and other cultures heard about it and made their flood myths. I don't see how we'd know geographically that a flood hit the fertile crescent for 40 days.

The water could have been set up in the creation and so we don't know how so much water came.

Anyway, them's my thoughts until I can remember more.

I highly recommend the Catena on Genesis, a compilation of Patristic comments on the book, for more information in your studies. God bless.

 

[Spirit of Light]

OK since we had a hard time looking at science and religion together with Noah's ark I have tried to study the Torah about it for a while and although I have trouble focusing when I read due to mental illness I have some thoughts:

Morally, man is superior to all the animals, that God would squeeze the population down to 1 to make it better, that we can be renewed, and that it's just a cool story to tell children make it good to me. I read that Noah entered the ark at midday so that would make people back off because he was morally upright. I like to think that Noah could be so righteous that God would start the entire human race through him. And yet, he had problems afterwards and sometimes after an adventure we all do that. Just like Noah's Ark was an extremely difficult thing for humanity and God to do, it is extremely difficult for humanity to understand how Noah's Ark could have happened. God's promise that things would be regulated for humanity afterwards so they could always survive makes me feel good about it.
I can't really think of much bad about the story.

Scientifically, I have some ideas.

They could have used bird feeders. They could have dumped poop. They could have taken the animals for walks. A Korean study said the ark could float although I believe God took it into his hand (I'm not supposed to share that but that's from the Pearl of Great Price in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). I think from the Hebrew that the ark didn't rise up right away so it wouldn't be dashed into a mountain.

Only animals with nostrils came into the ark. I wonder if he collected DNA samples. Separating animals after the flood could be like parting the red sea. Gathering animals could be like the ten plagues.

I think it says they used steel or something and maybe it was just a little earlier than history says.

I think it could have just been the fertile crescent and other cultures heard about it and made their flood myths. I don't see how we'd know geographically that a flood hit the fertile crescent for 40 days.

The water could have been set up in the creation and so we don't know how so much water came.

Anyway, them's my thoughts until I can remember more.

Question: was the flood a local flood around middle eastern area, or a worldwide flood that put every area on the earth under water
By local I mean known to man at that time.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Question: was the flood a local flood around middle easter area, or a worldwide flood that put every area on the earth under water
By local I mean known to man at that time.

Problem is that to the best of my knowledge, there is no scientific evidence of a worldwide Biblical flood.

My best guess is that there was probably some local flood that became legend and inspired the Bible story. And the story was probably passed down many times with exaggerations added along the way.

As you can see though, I don't have much faith in ancient religion, some Eastern stuff being an exception.

 

[robocop (actually)]

God never flooded the planet because animals had bad morals.

Plus, a competent God would have designed humans in a way that wouldn't require a reset or renewal. The story suggests God is incompetent.

I didn't say animals had bad morals. God could have done it to teach us a lesson.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Scientifically there is no genetic bottleneck where it should be, so there was no Noah flood.
`

If it was only in Mesopotamia, no genetic bottleneck necessary. Also, animals gathered could have had all opposite genes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If it was only in Mesopotamia, no genetic bottleneck necessary. Also, animals gathered could have had all opposite genes.

Sorry, but genes do not work that way. The number of alleles in an individual is very limited. Usually only two at the most for any gene. But if the flood was only in Mesopotamia then why would a magical boat even be necessary? Animal life from elsewhere would simply repopulate the Earth

 

[robocop (actually)]

I agree with your two comments.

The boat would be necessary to teach a lesson and get righteous people in Mesopotamia.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree with your two comments.

The boat would be necessary to teach a lesson and get righteous people in Mesopotamia.

Wouldn't killing the bad guys do the same thing? That is all that was needed. Noah had more than enough time to leave the area. His family could have walked out years before the flood according to the myth and then they could have just walked back.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Hold on I have a good answer....

 

[robocop (actually)]

Noah was commanded to do something extreme. Anyone else could have gone on the ark bit they thought he was crazy and they were wicked. This makes a much better story than moving out of Mesopotamia.

Perhaps that tells us that it was just a legend.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Noah was commanded to do something extreme. Anyone else could have gone on the ark bit they thought he was crazy and they were wicked. This makes a much better story than moving out of Mesopotamia.

Perhaps that tells us that it was just a legend.

It makes a good story, but it does not make any sense. Also the story clearly implies that the whole world had everything killed. The premise behind the reason for the flood would have failed if it was a local one, as you are trying to say. A local flood would not have killed everyone because they would also have been able to walk away from it. And a worldwide one did not happen.

Why not simply treat it as a morality tale? It still would fit the "all scripture is God breathed" verse since that verse does not even imply that all of the Bible is literally true. Have you read it? I doubt if you understood it if you think it means that the Bible is literally true. It only says that all scripture is useful in teaching and correcting others. As a teaching tool it would still work.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Maybe it was unnecessary to do the things it said it would and didn't do the things it said it would but Noah was righteous and because of what he believed God did for him he would pass on righteous memes. Also, other cultures would pick up on the story to help them have righteous memes.

When it says earth, maybe Moses thought it was the whole earth and it wasn't, or maybe the earth was just Mesopotamia. Maybe they defined the earth as only what they knew so it wasn't the authors' faults.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I can't really think of much bad about the story.

Really?

The indiscriminate killing of 99.99% of all humans - including the elderly, the disabled, the women, the children, toddlers and babies?

Not to mention the same for all animals?

And you can't think of "much bad" about the story?



How is massive genocide, infanticide, slaughter not a "bad thing"?

Scientifically, I have some ideas.

They could have used bird feeders. They could have dumped poop. They could have taken the animals for walks. A Korean study said the ark could float although I believe God took it into his hand (I'm not supposed to share that but that's from the Pearl of Great Price in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). I think from the Hebrew that the ark didn't rise up right away so it wouldn't be dashed into a mountain.

Only animals with nostrils came into the ark. I wonder if he collected DNA samples. Separating animals after the flood could be like parting the red sea. Gathering animals could be like the ten plagues.

I think it says they used steel or something and maybe it was just a little earlier than history says.

I think it could have just been the fertile crescent and other cultures heard about it and made their flood myths. I don't see how we'd know geographically that a flood hit the fertile crescent for 40 days.

The water could have been set up in the creation and so we don't know how so much water came.

Anyway, them's my thoughts until I can remember more.

So which of these figments of your imagination are you calling "scientific"?

 

[F1fan]

I didn't say animals had bad morals. God could have done it to teach us a lesson.

So if you're a parent and want to teach your kids a lesson you'd kill all the animals in the neighborhood?

 

[robocop (actually)]

Really?

The indiscriminate killing of 99.99% of all humans - including the elderly, the disabled, the women, the children, toddlers and babies?

Not to mention the same for all animals?

And you can't think of "much bad" about the story?



How is massive genocide, infanticide, slaughter not a "bad thing"?



So which of these figments of your imagination are you calling "scientific"?

Noah was the only one through which God could preserve a righteous enough population and he did it. The animals had to fit on the ark.

They are scientific hypotheses.

 

[robocop (actually)]

So if you're a parent and want to teach your kids a lesson you'd kill all the animals in the neighborhood?

In this case God did what He had to.