Some Qs

[Rival]

Judaism DIR.

I've been reading Exodus and have some questions for those among you better versed in this!

1. What's going on with Yitro? Why is it he has at least 2 names?

2. In 4:24 it seems like G-d comes from nowhere in a huff about to kill Moshe as his son is not yet cut. ?????

3. The rape of non-betrothed women laws in Ex.22 and Deut.22 are similar but not the same. What are the reasons for these differences?

 

[Harel13]

1. What's going on with Yitro? Why is it he has at least 2 names?

The classic answer is that he had seven names: Yitro, Yeter, Chovav, Chever, Reuel, Putiel and Keini. It's a midrash brought by Rashi.
Another answer is that Yitro and Reuel are two different people. I think Reuel was the father of Yitro, grandfather of Tzipporah. Sometimes grandchildren are called children of their grandparents.

 

[rosends]

Judaism DIR.

I've been reading Exodus and have some questions for those among you better versed in this!

1. What's going on with Yitro? Why is it he has at least 2 names?

2. In 4:24 it seems like G-d comes from nowhere in a huff about to kill Moshe as his son is not yet cut. ?????

3. The rape of non-betrothed women laws in Ex.22 and Deut.22 are similar but not the same. What are the reasons for these differences?

1. Rashi records that Yitro had 7 names. There are reasons for each
Chief of the Converts - Jethro's arrival and conversion was a crucial preparation for the giving of the Torah.

2. a LOT has been written on this -- it is a strange story When Hashem Tried to Kill Moshe | vbm haretzion

3. I took a quick look. It seems that Shmot 22 is dealing with an unmarried woman who is seduced by a man while Devarim 22 deals with a rape (or adultery)

 

[Rival]

3. I took a quick look. It seems that Shmot 22 is dealing with an unmarried woman who is seduced by a man while Devarim 22 deals with a rape (or adultery)

I did notice this but wondered about the word 'seduce'. This is a bit vague and could be interpreted by some as a rape if the girl is essentially taken advantage of.

 

[rosends]

I did notice this but wondered about the word 'seduce'. This is a bit vague and could be interpreted by some as a rape if the girl is essentially taken advantage of.

That becomes an issue of understanding the Hebrew Yefateh. In Devarim, the language is hechezeek which indicates a use of overpowering strength.

Rashi exaplins yefateh as " if he speaks kindly to her until she submits to him. Thus does also the Targum take it: ארי ישדל “if a man persuades”, the root שדל (the Pael conjugation) in Aramaic being the equivalent of פִּתָּה in Hebrew."

 

[Harel13]

When Hashem Tried to Kill Moshe | vbm haretzion

How ironic. This article was written by my middle school history teacher. Really awesome guy.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That becomes an issue of understanding the Hebrew Yefateh. In Devarim, the language is hechezeek which indicates a use of overpowering strength.

Rashi exaplins yefateh as " if he speaks kindly to her until she submits to him. Thus does also the Targum take it: ארי ישדל “if a man persuades”, the root שדל (the Pael conjugation) in Aramaic being the equivalent of פִּתָּה in Hebrew."

Thank you for this. I knew the interpretations, but I didn't know the Hebrew.

 

[Jake1001]

[QUOTE="rosends, post: 6559255, member: 55734”]

3. I took a quick look. It seems that Shmot 22 is dealing with an unmarried woman who is seduced by a man while Devarim 22 deals with a rape (or adultery):


Hi R. Rose, in modern society it is no sin for an unmarried woman to be seduced by a man. Are you onboard ?

 

[Harel13]

Hi R. Rose

(Rabbi Rosen)
@Jake1001, I recommend you leave the closing bracket at the end of the member number at the start of the quote, that way the quoted member will know they're being quoted.

 

[Jake1001]

(Rabbi Rosen)
@Jake1001, I recommend you leave the closing bracket at the end of the member number at the start of the quote, that way the quoted member will know they're being quoted.

Thank you, @Harel, I accidently backspaced too far and couldn’t recover

 

[rosends]

[QUOTE="rosends, post: 6559255, member: 55734”]

3. I took a quick look. It seems that Shmot 22 is dealing with an unmarried woman who is seduced by a man while Devarim 22 deals with a rape (or adultery):


Hi R. Rose, in modern society it is no sin for an unmarried woman to be seduced by a man. Are you onboard ?

On board with what? Modern society? Shmot 22 doesn't indicate any fault in the woman.

 

[Jake1001]

On board with what? Modern society? Shmot 22 doesn't indicate any fault in the woman.

What about the man ? In modernity we have no-fault sex.

 

[Rival]

What about the man ? In modernity we have no-fault sex.

Some of us here disagree with that position and believe in marriage first then sex.

 

[rosends]

What about the man ? In modernity we have no-fault sex.

The man has to pay the consequences of his actions. If he seduced the girl then he changed her status in the community and has to accept his role in that. Is that a "sin"? No. It is a behavior that has implications.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What about the man ? In modernity we have no-fault sex.

Society may allow this, but private individuals do not all agree that this is okay. I think that even you would agree that adultery is not okay, even though it is between two consenting adults.

 

[Jake1001]

Some of us here disagree with that position and believe in marriage first then sex.

You are living in the 1950’s.

 

[Jake1001]

The man has to pay the consequences of his actions. If he seduced the girl then he changed her status in the community and has to accept his role in that. Is that a "sin"? No. It is a behavior that has implications.

And those implications are .. ?

 

[Jake1001]

Society may allow this, but private individuals do not all agree that this is okay. I think that even you would agree that adultery is not okay, even though it is between two consenting adults.

What about separated man ?

 

[Rival]

You are living in the 1950’s.

It's the '80s, actually

But there are still millions of Orthodox Jews and there are Noahides like me who believe that sexual intercourse is reserved for marriage; or in the case of Noahides at least a stable, long-term relationship.

 

[rosends]

And those implications are .. ?

That he has changed the woman's status and owes her and her family some financial consideration for his actions. He has gone through the motions which mimic marriage so he should be bound as one who chose to get married.