Some problems i found with adam and the afterlife

[nPeace]

I think it could mean life force.Or it could mean we have a part of us that is kind of like a ghost.And when we die it goes to heaven.Not sure either way.If daniel 12:2 is true i will know at the resurrection.If soul sleep is true.

Interesting answer.
I think you can safely eliminate the ghost.
Yes. It means God holds your life in his hands. In other words, any prospect of life you may have, rests with him... and yes, he will remember you, as Daniel 12:2 states ... according to my understanding of scripture.

 

[Deeje]

This is not to be understood literally but symbolically.
The blood of Abel only screamed, but the souls of the dead have a conversation with God. They pronounced words. That is a difference, and therefore it cannot be understood symbolically.

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"

Yes, it's about the justice of God being carried out in their case, as it was in Abel's case. Very different circumstances but the same symbolism.

Where is the "alter" under which these "souls" are crying out to God? Their lives were sacrificed for God, so their deaths demand God's justice.

This is the Jewish portrayal of the alter....

Where is "under"?

 

[Deeje]

SOUL - JewishEncyclopedia.com just a review
soul and spirit are conditions of individual consciousness, ego. kind of as outlined in 1 Cor 2.

The reason why I mentioned ancient Judaism as opposed to modern Judaism is because they teach different things....especially about the soul.
Just as modern Christendom teaches very different things to what Jesus' first century Jewish disciples were taught.

Apostasy happened in both religious systems. Jesus exposed the Jews in his day and foretold that Christianity would suffer the same fate....open to the traditions of men rather than on the word of God. Each was corrupted by the same entity.....the avowed adversary of God.

 

[moorea944]

The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground (body), and breathed into his nostrils the breath (spirit) of life; and man became a living soul (soul)". Genesis 2:7. It is not said that man became spirit and soul; but rather, that God inbreathed spirit, and man became a living soul.

I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23)



If you look at Genesis 2:7 adam does not have a soul.But in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 man DOES have a soul

I put this in Religions Q&A.But thought it might get more replies here.

I found all of this at this website: The Errors of Soul Sleep

Your quit correct on this. Man "became" a soul. Never in the bible does it say that man was "given" a soul.
Now soul can be written in different ways too. It can mean life, person, the way I feel, etc..... Also the bible says that a soul can die. But if man "believes" that we have an immortal soul, why does the bible say that it can die?

"immortal soul" is not found in scripture. Immortal soul goes back to pagan times, Babylonian, Egyptian.

Stephan gave up his spirit at death. IT's only saying that he gave up his life. Same with Jesus. Man has given man a "soul", not God.

And what is death. When we die, we are dead until the resurrection. (too many verses to list). There is nothing in death, everything dies on us, heart, lungs, body, and our brain which makes us think and remember things too. Our feelings are going too. We are dead until resurrection.

But getting back to Adam, he became a soul. In Hebrew, it is Nephesh. A living breathing frame, someone who is alive. Man or animal. That's all it means.

 

[leov]

Your quit correct on this. Man "became" a soul. Never in the bible does it say that man was "given" a soul.
Now soul can be written in different ways too. It can mean life, person, the way I feel, etc..... Also the bible says that a soul can die. But if man "believes" that we have an immortal soul, why does the bible say that it can die?

"immortal soul" is not found in scripture. Immortal soul goes back to pagan times, Babylonian, Egyptian.

Stephan gave up his spirit at death. IT's only saying that he gave up his life. Same with Jesus. Man has given man a "soul", not God.

And what is death. When we die, we are dead until the resurrection. (too many verses to list). There is nothing in death, everything dies on us, heart, lungs, body, and our brain which makes us think and remember things too. Our feelings are going too. We are dead until resurrection.

But getting back to Adam, he became a soul. In Hebrew, it is Nephesh. A living breathing frame, someone who is alive. Man or animal. That's all it means.

OT says that a pile of dust was animated by God. Nephesh, Neshamah, Ruach, e.t.c. made that pile living thinking soul. Fwiw. Soul of Man is spiritual entity.

 

[moorea944]

OT says that a pile of dust was animated by God. Nephesh, Neshamah, Ruach, e.t.c. made that pile living thinking soul. Fwiw. Soul of Man is spiritual entity.

What verse says that it is a pile of dust?
And a soul of a man is not a spiritual entity. That would contradict creation.

 

[leov]

What verse says that it is a pile of dust?
And a soul of a man is not a spiritual entity. That would contradict creation.

". 7Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."
periodic table - Google Search
Strong's Hebrew: 5397. נְשָׁמָה (neshamah) -- breath

 

[moorea944]

". 7Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."
periodic table - Google Search
Strong's Hebrew: 5397. נְשָׁמָה (neshamah) -- breath

Yes, that's correct. The "pile of" through me off.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground (body), and breathed into his nostrils the breath (spirit) of life; and man became a living soul (soul)". Genesis 2:7. It is not said that man became spirit and soul; but rather, that God inbreathed spirit, and man became a living soul.

I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23)



If you look at Genesis 2:7 adam does not have a soul.But in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 man DOES have a soul

I put this in Religions Q&A.But thought it might get more replies here.

I found all of this at this website: The Errors of Soul Sleep

The Torah has no indication of any afterlife. This developed later, first with the idea of Sheol, and later with the place of purification, Gehenna.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Exactly. We are body, soul and spirit.

The body is our physical body. Then the spirit is our spiritual body or the so called "astral" body. And the soul is oyur consciousness. The soul is stream of consciousness. In other words your continuing thought life. Your mind. So when someone dies their soul leaves the physical body but is now attached to the spirit body. This means the soul continues but just not in the physical body.

It's like a flame of fire being transferred from one candle to another.

Just as fire needs fuel to keep burning. The soul needs a source of thought or consciousness. While in the physical body this comes from the physical brain. The brain acts as a thought generator. In other words by continuing to generate new thoughts it allows the soul to dwell within it. But once the brain dies then the soul goes elsewhere. Once someone dies it will continue but in the spirit body.


1 Corinthians 15:40 King James Version (KJV)
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Thanks for this post.
it is therefore also interesting to note that this is where the Trinity is explained at its best.
We are Body, Spirit and Mind.
or as I like to call the mind, our word.
God is also Holy existance in a body of light, a Holy Spirit and a Mind.
in our case, we will exchange our mortal bodies with a holy light covered immortal one as Adam had before he sinned.
We are a Trinity, because God made Adam and Eve in his immage.

 

[SA Huguenot]

The Torah has no indication of any afterlife. This developed later, first with the idea of Sheol, and later with the place of purification, Gehenna.

Num 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

 

[SA Huguenot]

The Torah has no indication of any afterlife. This developed later, first with the idea of Sheol, and later with the place of purification, Gehenna.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Now why would God kill Enoch to cut his life short on earth if Enoch was walking with God?
The whole idea that the Torah does not know an afterlife dissappears when one thinks where Enoch went...to God!

 

[SA Huguenot]

The Torah has no indication of any afterlife. This developed later, first with the idea of Sheol, and later with the place of purification, Gehenna.

Gen 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
And why would Abraham's grave be the grave of his people?
he left Ur and all his family was burried elsewhere.
Again, this is not the dead body referred to here, but Abraham's spirit!
No wonder Jesus said God is not the God of the Dead, but of the living!
YHWH, the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!
God never said, I am the God of the dead Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so why do Jews insert such a claim?
Abraham's spirit was collected with his people, in the kingdom of the dead where the souls are kept for judgement day.

 

[SA Huguenot]

The Torah has no indication of any afterlife. This developed later, first with the idea of Sheol, and later with the place of purification, Gehenna.

Gen 49:33 And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people.
This is perhaps the one place where the patriatchs can be said that one went into the grave with his people.
Jacob, because he had his grandfather, father and their wifes in this grave.
Therefore, the Torah does display a life after death.

 

[SA Huguenot]

The Torah has no indication of any afterlife. This developed later, first with the idea of Sheol, and later with the place of purification, Gehenna.

Sherbitt, I forgot.
God never says, I was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...He say I Am the God of....
Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Num 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

It doesn't imply that spirits survive death. Spirits or souls can be seen as what animates our bodies while we are alive. I'm not saying one way or the other that this is the case. I'm simply pointing out that it can be read this way.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Gen 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
And why would Abraham's grave be the grave of his people?
he left Ur and all his family was burried elsewhere.
Again, this is not the dead body referred to here, but Abraham's spirit!
No wonder Jesus said God is not the God of the Dead, but of the living!
YHWH, the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!
God never said, I am the God of the dead Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so why do Jews insert such a claim?
Abraham's spirit was collected with his people, in the kingdom of the dead where the souls are kept for judgement day.

Again, it doesn't have to be interpreted this way. Many Jews visit Abraham's tomb every year. He is truly gathered to his people.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Gen 49:33 And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people.
This is perhaps the one place where the patriatchs can be said that one went into the grave with his people.
Jacob, because he had his grandfather, father and their wifes in this grave.
Therefore, the Torah does display a life after death.

Again, Jews visit Jacobs tomb as well.

 

[Thief]

The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground (body), and breathed into his nostrils the breath (spirit) of life; and man became a living soul (soul)". Genesis 2:7. It is not said that man became spirit and soul; but rather, that God inbreathed spirit, and man became a living soul.

I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23)



If you look at Genesis 2:7 adam does not have a soul.But in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 man DOES have a soul

I put this in Religions Q&A.But thought it might get more replies here.

I found all of this at this website: The Errors of Soul Sleep

if I were closer to you
I speak to you....using my breath

the words are that of my soul....unto yours

God spoke
Adam listened

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Sherbitt, I forgot.
God never says, I was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...He say I Am the God of....
Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

I fail to see the significance. God is the God of now. He didn't stop being God.