Solution to homosexuals is by government executions according to Pastor.

[Terrywoodenpic]

That depends on what actually happens and the circumstances and conditions.

I'm vehemently against totalitarian measures to control any speech by authoritarians on a 'what if' basis.

That's more dangerous than any hate group or person out there.

That is not the law.
Incitement is a crime in a majority of countries.
There is no country, including the USA, where
freedom of speech is an absolute.

Civil cases of libel and slander take place more often in the USA than in any other country.

 

[1213]

...
Is it me, or is there an unusual amount of hate going on in Christianity today?

How many pastors there are that say the same as that pastor? By what I know, he is the only one saying that and there is probably more than 1000 pastors in the world. So, <1/1000 is not in my opinion an unusual amount of hate going on in Christianity. However, even when vast majority of pastors seem to be on the gay side, even Pope also, it does not necessary mean they are without hate. And I don't think the pastor in this case was hateful, just saying one thing said in the Bible. Telling what a law book says is not hateful. Obviously, it is not the only thing Bible says, but still, it is not sign of hate on itself to tell what is said in the Bible. In addition to his scripture, it would be good to notice also:

"Don't judge, so that you won't be judged. For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you."
Mat. 7:1-2

Be careful. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in the day, and seven times returns, saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him."
Luke 17:3-4

Disciples of Jesus should be merciful. But that doesn't mean we can't say if something is against God's will. And actually, saying it can be seen as sign of love, that we care.

 

[PureX]

Yep. Like Clarance Thomas, a black man that despises black people, there are some gay men that despise gay people.

It was my thought as well.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Disciples of Jesus should be merciful. But that doesn't mean we can't say if something is against God's will. And actually, saying it can be seen as sign of love, that we care.

Actually, you cannot in any way demonstrate that you know what "God's will" IS. All you can do is tell us what you think it is. But I say you are no better informed than I am, and as a consequence, since I lack your religious beliefs, your suppositions on such matters mean nothing to me.

It is a sign of hubris, not love, to suppose that you know what is better for another person than they do, unless they are suffering medical distress and you are a physician (or something analogous to that).

 

[metis]

@RayofLight
@Kharisym
@Terrywoodenpic

I always wondered why do gay people dress and talk like girls? and even take a makeup etc.
I mean, I can understand that there is same sex attraction, but why being girlish?

In some cases at least, it's probably due to having a higher level of estrogen. Generally speaking, we all usually have a certain level of both, but it's the one that is most dominant that mostly affects one gender preference.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That depends on what actually happens and the circumstances and conditions.

I'm vehemently against totalitarian measures to control any speech by authoritarians on a 'what if' basis.

That's more dangerous than any hate group or person out there.

Looking at the World, it doesn't seem this concern is warranted. As has been pointed out, it's not legal for such things in other places, amd those other places are more free than America.
And posters are right. People will act on such messages, especially in today's climate. And when Evangelicals say something they tend to very seriously mean it. It is something that needs snuffed out before it escalates, especially considering evangelicals have a very nasty martyrdom complex. They craved it and yearned for it when I was one of them, to be made a martyr in a world that is hostile and aggressive towards them, and see it as a badge of honor. It seems to have been festering unabated since I left, which isnt too surprising as I left it before hordes, masses and droves began leaving it meaning those who are left are the ones not being swayed by the many cult like and mentally, socially, and spiritually deranged features of it. They still support it and adhere to it. The others who don't are running from it like their lives depend on it (some literally do depend on it).

 

[Twilight Hue]

Looking at the World, it doesn't seem this concern is warranted. As has been pointed out, it's not legal for such things in other places, amd those other places are more free than America.
And posters are right. People will act on such messages, especially in today's climate. And when Evangelicals say something they tend to very seriously mean it. It is something that needs snuffed out before it escalates, especially considering evangelicals have a very nasty martyrdom complex. They craved it and yearned for it when I was one of them, to be made a martyr in a world that is hostile and aggressive towards them, and see it as a badge of honor. It seems to have been festering unabated since I left, which isnt too surprising as I left it before hordes, masses and droves began leaving it meaning those who are left are the ones not being swayed by the many cult like and mentally, socially, and spiritually deranged features of it. They still support it and adhere to it. The others who don't are running from it like their lives depend on it (some literally do depend on it).

Prosecute whenever the crime is actually committed. Not before, just because one happens to think so.

 

[Kharisym]

Prosecute whenever the crime is actually committed. Not before, just because one happens to think so.

Its my opinion that a state of absolute theoretical freedom (maybe described as anarchy) will result in less actual freedom than a society with carefully selected rules. With absolute freedom, then the freedom of some will be used to infringe upon the freedoms of others to the extent that some people have very little freedom themselves.

In terms of freedom of speech, this mechanism of extreme freedom actually reducing freedom can be seen. People with a lot of power (mega preachers) can limit the freedoms of people they dislike by inciting public opinion and making it dangerous for the people they don't like to exercise the freedom they supposedly have. What's more, is that prosecuting these things after the fact does not eliminate the mechanism by which powerful people with absolute freedom can shackle those lesser.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Prosecute whenever the crime is actually committed. Not before, just because one happens to think so.

That is dangerous and willing to let something happen knowing it will happen and only acting after the fact.
And it's not just a think it may happen. We see more and more reason to see it as likely. Evangelicism is a cult, they already believed the world hates them and is out to get them and now they are losing power and being told they must share the world.
This also isn't the first time one of them has called for such a thing, nor is their hatred aimed exclusively at homosexuals as their is documented circumstances of them attacking atheists, as well as being terrible people towards the homeless.
The elements that give rise to violence definitely need snuffed out.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

How many pastors there are that say the same as that pastor? By what I know, he is the only one saying that

How many pastors DON'T believe that homosexuality justifies eternal perdition?

I don't think the pastor in this case was hateful, just saying one thing said in the Bible.

Irrelevant what he felt. He's a purveyor of some of the hatred in his Bible whatever he's feeling. Cold bigotry, or the condescending bigotry of lowered expectations, is bigotry nevertheless. It might be easier to see in the misogyny. How many men lovingly consider women inferior and don't think education is really right for a woman's mind? They would tell you that they're loving and caring, and perhaps they don't feel any malice. So what?

And of course, it's how the general public perceives this that is relevant, not what defenders of the faith say in its defense. It may comfort you to say that there is no hatred there, but that's not what outsiders see. What they see are followers of a bigoted, intolerant deity imitating that deity's bigotry and intolerance. Does it matter what they feel?

Maybe Christians should be a little more interested in what non-Christians are telling them about what they see. It doesn't matter at all to the unbeliever that Christians disavow Christian bad actors and try to call them not Christian. Of course they are Christian and also the fruit of Christianity. Outsiders don't care what the book says, which the believer will point to to define true Christianity. That's fantasy Christianity, what we wish we were Christianity, how we'd like to be perceived Christianity.

But "true" Christianity is actual Christianity as seen on the streets, not the words in the book. Humanists could teach these Christians a few things about the Golden Rule, and they don't have a holy book. Maybe that's in part why. How can Christians learn to love one another when the gold standard for love is that deity? Why wouldn't Christians be homophobes or consider themselves loving for being such if their god wasn't also a homophobe and described as the exemplar of perfect love?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In some cases at least, it's probably due to having a higher level of estrogen. Generally speaking, we all usually have a certain level of both, but it's the one that is most dominant that mostly affects one gender preference.

Don't feed it, @metis! It'll only be back for more!

 

[wandering peacefully]

How many pastors DON'T believe that homosexuality justifies eternal perdition?



Irrelevant what he felt. He's a purveyor of some of the hatred in his Bible whatever he's feeling. Cold bigotry, or the condescending bigotry of lowered expectations, is bigotry nevertheless. It might be easier to see in the misogyny. How many men lovingly consider women inferior and don't think education is really right for a woman's mind? They would tell you that they're loving and caring, and perhaps they don't feel any malice. So what?

And of course, it's how the general public perceives this that is relevant, not what defenders of the faith say in its defense. It may comfort you to say that there is no hatred there, but that's not what outsiders see. What they see are followers of a bigoted, intolerant deity imitating that deity's bigotry and intolerance. Does it matter what they feel?

Maybe Christians should be a little more interested in what non-Christians are telling them about what they see. It doesn't matter at all to the unbeliever that Christians disavow Christian bad actors and try to call them not Christian. Of course they are Christian and also the fruit of Christianity. Outsiders don't care what the book says, which the believer will point to to define true Christianity. That's fantasy Christianity, what we wish we were Christianity, how we'd like to be perceived Christianity.

But "true" Christianity is actual Christianity as seen on the streets, not the words in the book. Humanists could teach these Christians a few things about the Golden Rule, and they don't have a holy book. Maybe that's in part why. How can Christians learn to love one another when the gold standard for love is that deity? Why wouldn't Christians be homophobes or consider themselves loving for being such if their god wasn't also a homophobe and described as the exemplar of perfect love?

Hypocrisy in it's "purest" form.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

@RayofLight
@Kharisym
@Terrywoodenpic

I always wondered why do gay people dress and talk like girls? and even take a makeup etc.
I mean, I can understand that there is same sex attraction, but why being girlish?

Why do Christians pidgeon hole people and focus on a few examples while ignoring every other example that doesn't for their narrative?
And dressing girly? I have known very few gay men who wear women's clothing or wear makeup. Probably because they're men and men usually don't wear women's stuff.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is this an attempt at a joke or do you actually believe this? It has to be a joke.

Wonder what he'd think of the lesbians I know who wear men's clothing, including boxers, and act just like they are one of the guys? By that statement I wonder if he's aware they even exist.

 

[paradox]

If the shoe fits.

You're as free as you want to be a stereotyping (person).

They don't all do that. You're stereotyping.

It's funny how you say I'm generalizing, but in same time you don't see yourself generalizing on Christians, is this not hypocrisy?

Proud to be an American is antisocial?
Proud of your children, of your school, of your sports team, of your church is anti-social?

There is nothing wrong in patriotism or belonging to a group.
But there is a line when pride stops being reasonable and becomes repulsive and counter productive.

What's embarrassing is the pathetic attempts Christians still make at playing No True Scotsman. They are Christian, they are your ilk, amd they are taking directly from what the Bible says.
As for what's to be followed? Ask 100 Christians and get 100 answers.

It's very simple, if you live by OT you can't call yourself Christian, Christians are literary Christ's followers and live by NT.
If somebody thinks we should live by the Jewish law (like this pastor), he's subject to law not to Jesus, and thus is not Christian but rather Jew.

And yet another burst of complete ignorance. The fact is that the vast majority of gay people do nothing of the kind.

I may be censured by Mods for saying this, but I think you should make at least a tiny effort at learning something about the topic you take some delight in pontificating on.

That was completely insulting and derogatory to very many people -- myself included. I do not dress or talk like a girl. I wear men's clothes. I am masculine in all my behaviours and even at my age could probably take you on in a fist fight.

I mean it ----- that was an insulting, ignorant, stupid post.

An putting me into the same basket as this "pastor" is not insulting and ignorant and stupid?
Do you think he represents Christians or what Christianity is?

Have you never read John 8:1-11
Do you not find this "pastor" contradictory to Jesus' teachings?

I can understand you don't like what this pastor is saying, but what does this have to do with Christianity really?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's very simple, if you live by OT you can't call yourself Christian, Christians are literary Christ's followers and live by NT.
If somebody thinks we should live by the Jewish law (like this pastor), he's subject to law not to Jesus, and thus is not Christian but rather Jew.

I'm pretty sure this pastor says otherwise.
And that's the thing with Christianity. For all the denominations and interpretations none can demonstrate their approach is better than the other.

An putting me into the same basket as this "pastor" is not insulting and ignorant and stupid?

You are both Christian. If you're insulted go tell this pastor what he's doing wrong. Don't tell us. We see the behavior of your tribe. You need to tell those of your tribe to knock it off if it offends you.

 

[paradox]

How ignorant. "Pride," as celebrated by LGBTQetc. people all over the world isn't about "being proud." It's about having lived our whole lives being told by people all around us (you know, the loving Christian folk) that "you should be ashamed!"

Until we learned that there was no fracking reason for us to be ashamed.

You may not like our choice of the word, but I suspect even you would agree that "Not Ashamed" day wouldn't really express what we want to express.

oh, btw. something come to my mind and I would like to hear what you think about it...

This "pastor" obviously said something you don't like or agree with,
now imagine if he on top of that says how proud he is of his speech (or not ashamed as you define it).

Imagine all those gathered around him in this hall stand up and tell him, shame on you for saying such a thing.
But "pastor" instead of being ashamed proclaims how proud he is for execution calls.

How would you see his pride or lack of shame?
A lot worse right?

 

[paradox]

I'm pretty sure this pastor says otherwise.
And that's the thing with Christianity. For all the denominations and interpretations none can demonstrate their approach is better than the other.

You are both Christian. If you're insulted go tell this pastor what he's doing wrong. Don't tell us. We see the behavior of your tribe. You need to tell those of your tribe to knock it off if it offends you.

Therefore what you're saying is that Christians live by the Jewish law?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The headline of this thread is "solution to homosexuals"

Why do they think Homosexuals are a problem needing a solution?
Homosexuals are amongst those groups in society giving the least problems to anyone else.

Therefore what you're saying is that Christians live by the Jewish law?

Some Christians certainly give preference to their interpretation of the old testament, over the new teachings of Jesus.

However they have nothing like the same understanding of these as the Jews, or in the way that they interpret the Jewish law or the rest of the old testament.

It is those, like this pastor, who spread and encourage the most hate, fear and discord.
It is they, and their like, not Homosexuals, who are perhaps in most need of a final solution.

 

[paradox]

Some Christians certainly give preference to their interpretation of the old testament, over the new teachings of Jesus.

Which is why they're not Christians in actual meaning.

You can say "I'm good person because I believe so" but if you do bad things you're obviously not good right? it doesn't matter what you believe.

It is they, and their like, who are perhaps in most need of a final solution.

forgive him, otherwise you're not different than this "pastor", since what you're suggesting is an eye for an eye, a teeth for teeth.