Socialist Healthcare is Fundamentally Flawed

[Autodidact]

It's failed everywhere it was tried. It makes everyone pay higher taxes. It lowers the quality of healthcare. It makes longer waiting lines. It eliminates people's ability to choose their own healthcare plans and their own doctors. It means lesser healthcare for the elderly. It makes things even easier on people who don't work and skim off government. There is absolutely no desire for anyone to be a doctor. Oh and don't forget that ever since England adopted universal healthcare, patient deaths due to doctor negligence have risen nearly 80% more than they were before.

I doubt that you're interested in the facts, but in case you are, did you know that countries with universal health care not only pay about half what we do for health care, but all but one actually pay less in taxes for health care? That's right, we pay more in taxes for health care than countries with universal health care. And of course, all of them have greater longevity, better health, lower infant mortality and dramatically higher patient satisfaction. Other than,that, yeah, it's a total failure.

Have you ever talked to a Canadian about their health care system? Or a Spaniard? Or an Israeli? Ask them if they'd rather use the U.S. "system." I dare you.

 

[Autodidact]

As a Canadian, I love our health care system. It has a few problems, but at last we don't have people not getting treated for a lack of dollars. Most of us also have extended health coverage insurance for stuff that goes beyond basic, like dental, prescriptions etc.

Oh no, Vin, you're just not aware that your system is a failure, and you wish you could have the U.S. system, don't you? Don't you?

 

[Autodidact]

What happens if you want some procedure, which they might deny or make you wait too long?
Could you pay for the procedure in Canada?

What happens if you want some procedure, which they might deny or make you wait too long?
Could you pay for the procedure in the U.S.?

 

[Revoltingest]

What happens if you want some procedure, which they might deny or make you wait too long?
Could you pay for the procedure in the U.S.?

I know you must be making some point, but yes.
In the US, there is no legal prohibition against privately contracting for services from docs & hospitals.
(Under Hillary's plan, this would not have been the case though.)
Does anyone know the answer to my question about this option in Canada?

 

[Where Is God]

If death by no medical care due to the lack of funding(preventable deaths) were a category, it would be THE NUMBER ONE cause of death in America. "taxes will go up" - if you were dieing I would be more than happy to shell out for you. Clearly that wouldnt be ssomething you would do for me.

 

[Revoltingest]

If death by no medical care due to the lack of funding(preventable deaths) were a category, it would be THE NUMBER ONE cause of death in America. "taxes will go up" - if you were dieing I would be more than happy to shell out for you. Clearly that wouldnt be ssomething you would do for me.

You should work harder on proofreading your posts.

 

[Where Is God]

You should work harder on proofreading your posts.

I am on a iPod *and* autocorrect ****** me off in so many ways you don't understand so I just gave up. Sorry.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I know you must be making some point, but yes.
In the US, there is no legal prohibition against privately contracting for services from docs & hospitals.
(Under Hillary's plan, this would not have been the case though.)
Does anyone know the answer to my question about this option in Canada?

I don't know about Canada, but I can answer the question with relation to Norway if you like.
We also have universal healthcare, and yes, you can contract privately for services if you want to, although very few people actually do since the universal system covers just about everything except boob-jobs, which, surprise surprise, you have to pay for yourself.
There are exceptions to this too though.
For instance, if a woman gets breast cancer and has to get one or more of her breasts removed, the system covers reconstruction.

 

[Valjean]

Generally you get the healthcare you need, when you need it, in the countries with Beveridge, Bismark and National systems. Coverage for discretionary care -- face lifts, the aforementioned 'boob jobs, &c --varies.

In the American out-of-pocket system you get what you can pay for except in emergencies. Healthcare in the US is extremely expensive so people generally rely on insurance to cover a portion of their bills. The policies, however, have yearly and total caps on what they'll pay, plus treatment protocols are decided by clerks whose job it is to minimize expenses. The Drs may propose treatments, but the decisions are made by the office clerks.

Nowhere in the developed world is healthcare rationed to the extent it is in the US.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Just to give an example, about a 16 months ago I was hospitalized with the swine-flu and a bacterial infection in my lungs. I stayed in the hospital for three weeks, one of which I was in an artifical coma and two of which I had 24 hour surveilance.
Add to this the numerous antibiotic cures I received to beat down the infection in my lungs as well as other medication and you have a bill that runs into tens of thousands of dollars.

When I was released I signed a release form.
That's all.

No bill.
No charge.
No nothing.

I just signed the form and went home.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

In the UK most people use the NHS.
However It is always an option to use one of the Private hospitals and pay either your self or with insurance.

All GP Doctors and Consultants are private contractors, who may or may not have contracts with the Health service. what they do, or charge for, outside that service contract, is down to them.
Some do work part time in Private hospitals.

The advantages of Private hospitals are Private rooms, Pre booked operations, and high level of personal service. The disadvantages are medical... a lower level of specialisms under one roof, poor out of hours consultant level support, poor emergency support. a narrow range of expertise.
Insurance costs capped by non medical staff.

Our Nhs takes up the all the difficult and problem cases created in the private health care system.

Private hospitals are sometimes used by the NHS to do elective surgery (free for the patient)
I had a hernia done that way by a consultant I had been seeing in a NHS hospital. They do this when the operating theatres are fully booked on critical cases.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't know about Canada, but I can answer the question with relation to Norway if you like.
We also have universal healthcare, and yes, you can contract privately for services if you want to, although very few people actually do since the universal system covers just about everything except boob-jobs.....

What screwed up priorities you guys have!