Socialism -- a pathway to disaster

[Kenny]

Did i say, completely? No but you qualification is telling...


45,000 medical bills ERASED!

You are throwing congratulations around like candy in the above link because 45000 people were given free healthcare... By a church.

What does "free free healthcare" mean? You pay for it? Yes you did say "completely"

Are you upset about that? Do you suggest I get upset that 45000 people had 450 MILLION dollars in debt erased simply out of love? Why not rejoice in the good that was done? Are you suggesting that people not help? Was it "evil" to have people give towards someone else's debt? What is your complaint?

 

[Heyo]

What does "free free healthcare" mean? You pay for it? Yes you did say "completely"

Are you upset about that? Do you suggest I get upset that 45000 people had 450 MILLION dollars in debt erased simply out of love?

No, quite the opposite. How about erasing debt of even more people?

Why not rejoice in the good that was done?

We do.

Are you suggesting that people not help?

Are you?

Was it "evil" to have people give towards someone else's debt?

Nothing. It should be done on a federal level for everyone.

What is your complaint?

Your hypocrisy.
When Cuba gives free health care to all its people, it's bad. When a church does it for some people, it's good?

 

[ChristineM]

What does "free free healthcare" mean? You pay for it? Yes you did say "completely"

Are you upset about that? Do you suggest I get upset that 45000 people had 450 MILLION dollars in debt erased simply out of love? Why not rejoice in the good that was done? Are you suggesting that people not help? Was it "evil" to have people give towards someone else's debt? What is your complaint?

I did not say completely, you made that up and implied...

I am not upset. I just think it is hypocritical? I have no complaint,. I am simply pointing out your contradiction. That you gripe about socialism but when a church you favour carries our a socialist act, you rejoice.

 

[Left Coast]

Since I actually talked to the Nicaraguans who fled the country by night and lost family along the way--I find Bernie's point of view mute.

And since he talked to Nicaraguans who were actually living there during the Sandinista government...perhaps your point is mute?

 

[Shad]

It's cute cherry picking third world countries but how about having a look at other developed, 1st world nations?

You mean market-capitalist nations that are not socialist? Yes lets do that.....

 

[Shad]

Bernie's policies would make us basically a social democracy a la Scandinavia. Not exactly dirt poor countries. Better healthcare than us, for example.

Why do people constantly fall for this equivocation between Bernie and Venezuela, or Bernie and the USSR? Are they blind?

That is because Bernie can not get this terminology correct nor has his history of associations with communist and socialist organizations and nations not social democracy organizations demonstrated otherwise. When the very man gets his own label wrong how is it anyone's problem but his own? Seems like you know nothing of Sanders before the 2000s.

 

[Shad]

Are people blind?

Just greedy. The trade their votes for money not their own.

 

[Kenny]

And since he talked to Nicaraguans who were actually living there during the Sandinista government...perhaps your point is mute?

Politicians vs. real life on the ground? No contest.

 

[Left Coast]

Politicians vs. real life on the ground? No contest.

You didn't watch the video you yourself posted. He talked to real life people on the ground, not just politicians.

 

[Left Coast]

That is because Bernie can not get this terminology correct nor has his history of associations with communist and socialist organizations and nations not social democracy organizations demonstrated otherwise. When the very man gets his own label wrong how is it anyone's problem but his own? Seems like you know nothing of Sanders before the 2000s.

Maybe, can you educate me re: what I should know about Sanders from before the 2000s? With documentation please.

Re: his label, he's explained himself ad nauseam. Social democracy and democratic socialism are shades of grey different from one another, depending who you ask. Even Bernie's wiki page says, "An advocate of social democratic and progressive policies, Sanders is known for his opposition to economic inequality and neoliberalism."

As I said earlier, I care less about the label and more about the substance of policies.

 

[Shad]

Maybe, can you educate me re: what I should know about Sanders from before the 2000s? With documentation please.

Go look up his wiki and look at his associations.

Re: his label, he's explained himself ad nauseam. Social democracy and democratic socialism are shades of grey different from one another, depending who you ask.

People changing the definition to suit their whims is not my problem. This is why we have dictionaries. There is a difference between the two. There is no gray there. One exists within a capitalist system, the other abolishes it completely.

Even Bernie's wiki page says, "An advocate of social democratic and progressive policies, Sanders is known for his opposition to economic inequality and neoliberalism."

Socialists are too. You do not understand basic Marxism and Socialism do you? Yet he still calls himself a socialist. Ergo he has no idea what the terms he uses mean.

As I said earlier, I care less about the label and more about the substance of policies.

I disagree with his policies even if he were a card carrying Republican. My point is he changes the word to fit what he wants it to mean.

My point is Bernie has zero issues getting the label wrong. People can look up his past. They have grounds to be suspicious. I just think Bernie, like Biden, are in decline mentally.

 

[Left Coast]

Go look up his wiki and look at his associations.

I did. To which are you referring?

People changing the definition to suit their whims is not my problem. This is why we have dictionaries. There is a difference between the two. There is no gray there. One exists within a capitalist system, the other abolishes it completely.

When I Google "social democracy," the definition that auto-populates from Oxford Dictionary is, "A socialist system of government achieved by democratic means."

Social Democracy | Meaning of Social Democracy by Lexico

Merriam-Webster gives two definitions:

"1- a political movement advocating a gradual and peaceful transition from capitalism to socialism by democratic means

2 - a democratic welfare state that incorporates both capitalist and socialist practices"

Definition of SOCIAL DEMOCRACY

Wiki further explains:

"Social democracy originated as an ideology within the socialist and labour movements, whose goal at different times has been a social revolution to move away from capitalism to a post-capitalist economy such as socialism, a peaceful revolution as in the case of evolutionary socialism, or the establishment and support of a welfare state. Its origins lie in the 1860s as a revolutionary socialismassociated with orthodox Marxism."

Social democracy - Wikipedia

So if dictionaries are where you're looking, it's obvious that there is significant overlap between social democracy and socialism. Shades of grey, as I said.

Socialists are too. You do not understand basic Marxism and Socialism do you?

I don't know why there's constantly a bite to your posts. Are you trying to be insulting? I don't see the point. If you are saying that socialists are advocates of social democracy, I don't know what you're arguing about.

 

[Heyo]

My point is Bernie has zero issues getting the label wrong.

Bernie just stopped to care to correct those who mislabel him.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Is it because we're not as well developed or advanced as Europe? How embarrassing.

We are no longer a first world nation.

An MIT economist says the US has regressed to a developing nation status

 

[Shad]

Bernie just stopped to care to correct those who mislabel him.

He mislabels himself. Him changing the definition to whatever he wants does not fly.

 

[Shad]

I did. To which are you referring?

Socialist Party of America, spoke for the anniversary for the Sandinista Revolution. Sister city projects with only communist or socialist cities not in Scandinavia

When I Google "social democracy," the definition that auto-populates from Oxford Dictionary is, "A socialist system of government achieved by democratic means."

Now do socialist. Yawn

Definition of SOCIALISM
socialism noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com
Socialism - Oxford Reference

So if dictionaries are where you're looking, it's obvious that there is significant overlap between social democracy and socialism. Shades of grey, as I said.

Wrong. See above and try again.

I don't know why there's constantly a bite to your posts.

**mod edit**

Are you trying to be insulting?

Facts can be insulting.

I don't see the point. If you are saying that socialists are advocates of social democracy, I don't know what you're arguing about.

It is called overlap. Two people can share a similar view based on different sources.

 

[Left Coast]

Socialist Party of America, spoke for the anniversary for the Sandinista Revolution.

Fascinating,what did he say?

Sister city projects with only communist or socialist cities not in Scandinavia

What's involved in a sister city project?

Now do socialist. Yawn

Definition of SOCIALISM
socialism noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com
Socialism - Oxford Reference

Cool. So when we put them all together, we see: significant overlap. Like I said. Socialism isn't a monolith.

Wrong. See above and try again.

Nope, not wrong. See previous post and try again.

**mod edit**

Facts can be insulting.

You can present a fact without calling a person stupid because they don't agree with your interpretation.

It is called overlap. Two people can share a similar view based on different sources.

Yes, and when they share significant amount of overlap, we might make an analogy, like....shades of grey. Like I said.

I agree there's a distinction between the terms. That has nothing to do with conflating Sanders' views with authoritarian communism.

 

[atanu]

Yes... there are always good hearted people.

But notice the dichotomy:

Socialists are not motivated by greed - yet they want to take from other people.
Capitalists are motivated by greed - yet they help get products to people, employ and sustain people.

WAAAAIT A MINUTE : Don't get me wrong.

There are capitalists who are motivated by greed... but to say socialists are not? Tell that to socialists Maduros and Castros of this world who have offshore accounts.

What about personal responsibility?

A good heart would want a more egalitarian, equitable and just society.

 

[Father Heathen]

We are no longer a first world nation.

An MIT economist says the US has regressed to a developing nation status

MAGA mission accomplished?

 

[Father Heathen]

You mean market-capitalist nations that are not socialist? Yes lets do that.....

Sure, let's. I'm not the one trying to parallel universal healthcare with failed 3rd world socialist states.