Social transfers to different castes in the varna caste system of Hindus

[Shantanu]

1. The varna-based caste system of social stratification has its origins in the Veda Samhitas and was repeated in Bhagavad Gita. It has been passed down to the present generations through the gotra system of marriages making one's caste a hereditary acquisition. It has been explained that the basis of the varna caste system is that different people were mentally suited to different type of karmas in that humanity is divided into three gunas: sattvic, rajasic and tamasic. This raises the question of how these gunas are acquired by an individual and whether there should accordingly be flexibility in how the system is applied in society?

2. Humans can change their mentalities depending on their life experiences, upbringing and education. The gunas are therefore not set in stone as a genetic acquisition. This means that any human being should be flexibly be able to alter the caste that he belongs to during the course of his life. Indeed in modern times we see that people of all castes perform all kinds of duties in society. There is therefore a need for reform and re-examination of the Hindu marriages so that it conforms to the reality of human biological composition regardless of how we have acquired the caste system through the passage of history.

3. My first question is therefore to determine how flexible was the varna-based caste system conceptually when it was created? Is there anything written in the Veda Samhitas or other sruti that prohibits inter-varna marriages for example? Can a Shudra man marry a Brahmin girl, and if so do they become Brahmins or Shudras? Also, do any of the srutis or even smritis prevent a Shudra person from declaring himself to be a Brahmin and adopting a Brahmin gotra through a yagna or ritual?

4. I quote this from the 'Question on Caste System vs Varna System' thread by dharma_seeker as relevant to the point I am making. He says: Hindusim differenciates people not by his birth but by his thinking, actions and personality. He further quotes: Sri Krishna in Bhagavad Gita clarifies (Chapter 4 verse 13) states "catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah tasya kartaram api mam viddhy akartaram avyayam" meaning that the fours varnas were established based on ones karma/duties.
and that:
An individual should be classified in a particular class (varna) irrespective of his birth if he possesses the decisive characteristic of that class. One's class should be decided considering the holistic picture of the qualities of the class of the person and those of the other classes. - Shrimadbhagvat 7.21.35

5. It is good and practical to have a caste system that logically functions through birth because in doing so children are brought up to the values imparted to them by their parents which in turn will determine the balance of gunas that the child acquires. So the gotra-based system of marriages should be retained. But for those individuals who show an excessive desire for doing good, or going into farming or the military, etc., there should be a system in place that enables them to transfer to the caste of their choice. The four varnas should not be seen as upper/higher or lower but simply a structure that describes a person by his guna and work for society.

6. This subject needs to be tackled because it is at the heart of Hinduism. So let us discuss.

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

1. The varna-based caste system of social stratification has its origins in the Veda Samhitas and was repeated in Bhagavad Gita. It has been passed down to the present generations through the gotra system of marriages making one's caste a hereditary acquisition. It has been explained that the basis of the varna caste system is that different people were mentally suited to different type of karmas in that humanity is divided into three gunas: sattvic, rajasic and tamasic. This raises the question of how these gunas are acquired by an individual and whether there should accordingly be flexibility in how the system is applied in society?

Actually, the three guṇas are present in all, its only a matter of which is predominant. Pure sattva doesn't exist within the creation. Both varṇa and āśrama systems have both social and adhyātmik purposes. The former is subject to change owing its connectedness to society. An individual has both innate and 'externally influenced' characteristics - svabhāva and prabhāva.

2. Humans can change their mentalities depending on their life experiences, upbringing and education. The gunas are therefore not set in stone as a genetic acquisition. This means that any human being should be flexibly be able to alter the caste that he belongs to during the course of his life. Indeed in modern times we see that people of all castes perform all kinds of duties in society. There is therefore a need for reform and re-examination of the Hindu marriages so that it conforms to the reality of human biological composition regardless of how we have acquired the caste system through the passage of history.

Svabhāva is innate, it is the very nature of an individual, this applies for adhyātmik purposes. Of the heritable and externally influenced prabhāva the current caste system functions. But in my opinion most of the rationale for this is irrecoverably lost (exceptions do exist).

3. My first question is therefore to determine how flexible was the varna-based caste system conceptually when it was created? Is there anything written in the Veda Samhitas or other sruti that prohibits inter-varna marriages for example? Can a Shudra man marry a Brahmin girl, and if so do they become Brahmins or Shudras? Also, do any of the srutis or even smritis prevent a Shudra person from declaring himself to be a Brahmin and adopting a Brahmin gotra through a yagna or ritual?

Well, the vaidik conception of varṇāśrama system is not rigid. Instances abound - Ṛṣi Jābāla, Viśvāmitra, Vālmīki, Ved Vyāsa. One cannot adopt any gotra - for there is (was) a basis for this, though now it might've been completely lost. Progeny of inter-caste marriages have specific designations, and it is mostly the smṛtis that elucidate role of each within the society.

4. I quote this from the 'Question on Caste System vs Varna System' thread by dharma_seeker as relevant to the point I am making. He says: Hindusim differenciates people not by his birth but by his thinking, actions and personality. He further quotes: Sri Krishna in Bhagavad Gita clarifies (Chapter 4 verse 13) states "catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah tasya kartaram api mam viddhy akartaram avyayam" meaning that the fours varnas were established based on ones karma/duties.
and that:
An individual should be classified in a particular class (varna) irrespective of his birth if he possesses the decisive characteristic of that class. One's class should be decided considering the holistic picture of the qualities of the class of the person and those of the other classes. - Shrimadbhagvat 7.21.35

5. It is good and practical to have a caste system that logically functions through birth because in doing so children are brought up to the values imparted to them by their parents which in turn will determine the balance of gunas that the child acquires. So the gotra-based system of marriages should be retained. But for those individuals who show an excessive desire for doing good, or going into farming or the military, etc., there should be a system in place that enables them to transfer to the caste of their choice. The four varnas should not be seen as upper/higher or lower but simply a structure that describes a person by his guna and work for society.

I would disagree, the caste system as it is now at best serves administrative purposes especially with political motivations. A large population has no definite idea of gotra - even when they do by tradition, it is impossible to say it is accurate. I believe, it would be best to provide support of economically challenged irrespective of their caste, and the varṇa system be limited to religious functioning. However, this is also kind of utopian.

Requirements for a brahmaṇa are very challenging, especially in contemporary times: Continuous study of śāstras, performance of all auspices throughout the day, not engaging in trading or agriculture, not being employed, not accumulating wealth, not teaching for a fee, if having a gurukula - managing it with one's own means including stay and food for pupils, and most importantly engaging in the contemplation of brahman (which is the reason why one would be referred to as brāhmaṇa). Now how many would qualify as a brahmaṇa?

Also remember Bhiīṣmācārya's words : janmanā jāyte śūdraḥ - one is always born as a śūdra.

What exists today is only a shadow of the actual system, can we revive it? perhaps, how many would volitionally start practicing it? impossible to say!

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[Shantanu]

Actually, the three guṇas are present in all, its only a matter of which is predominant. Pure sattva doesn't exist within the creation. Both varṇa and āśrama systems have both social and adhyātmik purposes. The former is subject to change owing its connectedness to society. An individual has both innate and 'externally influenced' characteristics - svabhāva and prabhāva.


Svabhāva is innate, it is the very nature of an individual, this applies for adhyātmik purposes. Of the heritable and externally influenced prabhāva the current caste system functions. But in my opinion most of the rationale for this is irrecoverably lost (exceptions do exist).


Well, the vaidik conception of varṇāśrama system is not rigid. Instances abound - Ṛṣi Jābāla, Viśvāmitra, Vālmīki, Ved Vyāsa. One cannot adopt any gotra - for there is (was) a basis for this, though now it might've been completely lost. Progeny of inter-caste marriages have specific designations, and it is mostly the smṛtis that elucidate role of each within the society.




I would disagree, the caste system as it is now at best serves administrative purposes especially with political motivations. A large population has no definite idea of gotra - even when they do by tradition, it is impossible to say it is accurate. I believe, it would be best to provide support of economically challenged irrespective of their caste, and the varṇa system be limited to religious functioning. However, this is also kind of utopian.

Requirements for a brahmaṇa are very challenging, especially in contemporary times: Continuous study of śāstras, performance of all auspices throughout the day, not engaging in trading or agriculture, not being employed, not accumulating wealth, not teaching for a fee, if having a gurukula - managing it with one's own means including stay and food for pupils, and most importantly engaging in the contemplation of brahman (which is the reason why one would be referred to as brāhmaṇa). Now how many would qualify as a brahmaṇa?

Also remember Bhiīṣmācārya's words : janmanā jāyte śūdraḥ - one is always born as a śūdra.

What exists today is only a shadow of the actual system, can we revive it? perhaps, how many would volitionally start practicing it? impossible to say!

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

Thank you for your insights. It is very much appreciated.

I disagree that all three gunas are present in every individual. There are people on this earth who are absolute animals so entirely subjected to the tamasic guna without an iota of sattvic mentality. They commit horrendous crimes of terrorism, murders, rapes, robbery, paedophilia etc. These are the people that have no sense of responsibility and discipline and so are fit only for the menial tasks of society, as Shudras. This is because their tamasic nature will make a mess of things like religious rituals, administration, and agriculture. But there are also people who are so caring and truthful that they are governed entirely by the sattvic guna. These are I accept rare and so exceptional cases. They are thoughtful and are truth seekers performing religious duties. This is because the sattvic guna of humans was awakened by God, Sri Krishna. Up until about 20,000 years ago all humans lived to tamasic guna like all other animals as their driving force from their consciousness.

The thoughts that prompted the ancient rishis to think up the idea of varna caste system were God-inspired thoughts that provided a rationale for the stratification of society along the lines of guna acquisition. Over these 7000 years since the vaidik system was introduced, there has been increasingly more sattivic guna expressed in humanity so that the same system of varnas are no longer required to civilise human beings as there used to be. But abandoning the system will lead to people once again losing their sattvic nature and reverting to their tamasic guna inspirations to live like animals. This can only be prevented by retention of the varna system in some form.

I agree that some of what we are is due to svabhava (nature/genetics) but most of what we are is due to education and upbringing. Otherwise our laws and orders would have been made to isolate people who are genetically very bad. Prison systems have the objective of reforming criminals so that it is possible through education to change people's gunas-balance from tamasic guna to rajasic and sattvic guna. The system of social stratification of society through the varna system makes people think about who they are and what they should strive too.

The Brahmins need to be almost entirely governed by the sattvic guna. The duties of the Brahmins are also no longer recognised to be as intensive as you have described. There is no need for a gurukul for every Brahmin. The most important tasks is learning the mantras and knowing how to conduct the priestly duties for all the functions of society. They should receive payment for these duties to society. Contemplation of the Brahman (Brahma) and meditation for guidance is of course important without which the Brahmin will not attain a state where he is respected by society for being knowledgeable. Society should have a system in which such people are selected and accorded the role of a Brahmin.

Of course there are those who have a bit of each guna. They can fit into other roles in society.

Our Hindu system inherited from the Vedic times accepted that society should be organised. People should be selected for particular roles in society to optimise the functioning of the State according to the nature and character of the individuals. The classification of people according to varnas meant that people always knew who is of what nature. It was truth in action. So I am suggesting that retention of a reformed varna system will be good for Indians. Or the country will head towards disintegration.

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

I disagree that all three gunas are present in every individual. There are people on this earth who are absolute animals so entirely subjected to the tamasic guna without an iota of sattvic mentality.

Predominance of sattva+raja leads to wakefulness, rajas+tamas dreaming state, predominance of tamas to deep sleep. Now, do we have a normal person who is not subject to these three stages in daily lives?

They commit horrendous crimes of terrorism, murders, rapes, robbery, paedophilia etc. These are the people that have no sense of responsibility and so are fit only for the menial tasks of society, as Shudras.

You wouldn't say this if you knew what śūdra means. A person needs to be a śūdra before aspiring to be anything else. It is a basic quality - being of service to the society and assisting other three in accomplishing their goals. The classification as conceived by śāstras is both individual and societal. This is why śūdras are considered as the feet of the Supreme - they are the basis on which everything else stands.

Over these 7000 years since the vaidik system was introduced, there has been increasingly more sattivic guna expressed in humanity so that the same system of varnas are no longer required to civilise human beings as there used to be.

If anything, there has been a marked increase in violence and indulgence over the past 7000 years. The vaidik system is eternal and has a history that goes back several millenias which is why it is considered sanātana.

The duties of the Brahmins are also no longer recognised to be as intensive as you have described. There is no need for a gurukul for every Brahmin.

This would not only contradict the śrutis and smṛtis and undermine the very rationale and basis for its conception, but also result in disharmony - who would decide and on what basis as to what each of them ought to engage in? Don't you think so?

नारायणायेतिसमर्पयामि ।

 

[Stormcry]

Hello Shantanu, Bhagavat 7.21? There's no 21th chapter in 7th canto. Please provide the correct one

 

[Shantanu]

Hello Shantanu, Bhagavat 7.21? There's no 21th chapter in 7th canto. Please provide the correct one

I was only quoting dharma_seekers from his post on Question of Caste System vs Varna System. I have not seen the source of the quotation. Please find it to correct this.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The utility of caste is finished in the modern India. Now we are back to the qualities that a person is born with by the grace of God (that is for the theists who form the overwhelming majority here). A brahmin boy excels in business, a shudra teaches, the warrior tills fields, and a vaishya joins the army. Today's yuga-dharma is different from what it was 3,000 years ago.

 

[Shantanu]

Predominance of sattva+raja leads to wakefulness, rajas+tamas dreaming state, predominance of tamas to deep sleep. Now, do we have a normal person who is not subject to these three stages in daily lives?

You wouldn't say this if you knew what śūdra means. A person needs to be a śūdra before aspiring to be anything else. It is a basic quality - being of service to the society and assisting other three in accomplishing their goals. The classification as conceived by śāstras is both individual and societal. This is why śūdras are considered as the feet of the Supreme - they are the basis on which everything else stands.

If anything, there has been a marked increase in violence and indulgence over the past 7000 years. The vaidik system is eternal and has a history that goes back several millenias which is why it is considered sanātana.

This would not only contradict the śrutis and smṛtis and undermine the very rationale and basis for its conception, but also result in disharmony - who would decide and on what basis as to what each of them ought to engage in? Don't you think so?

नारायणायेतिसमर्पयामि ।

My definition of human character is based on my own observations of human nature and not taken from the shastras. According to what I have seen humanity is broadly classified into divine, routinal or normal, and evil people who derive these three energies from their consciousness and which I define as being sattvic, rajasic and tamasic gunas respectively. Similarly, the roles for people in society are to be based on these characteristic gunas.

Mr Pinker in his book The Angels of our Better Nature has shown that violence has decreased over time.

The role of the Brahmin in society needs to be reeavaluated according to todays realities. Fresh thinking is needed.

 

[Shantanu]

The utility of caste is finished in the modern India. Now we are back to the qualities that a person is born with by the grace of God (that is for the theists who form the overwhelming majority here). A brahmin boy excels in business, a shudra teaches, the warrior tills fields, and a vaishya joins the army. Today's yuga-dharma is different from what it was 3,000 years ago.

You see that society has disintegrated because the caste system was dismantled by pressures from Muslim and Christian invaders and the legacy that they left. The modern education system which we inherited copies the western basis of society and instills in this regard the principle of equality of human beings regardless of the type of character a person is.

Further, secularism teaches Indians now that all that was given to us by religion is bad and not to be tolerated in the running of government. In my view what we need is a Hindu Rashtra or a Dharmarashtra that will bring ancient wisdom into play again for the future of India. This is because there was scientific sense to the Vedic system which needs to be explained.

 

[Stormcry]

Shantanu, Bhagavata Purana undoubtedly supports Caste By Birth. "Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas are very near to Shri Hari’s feet by virtue of their birth and Vedic ceremonies, yet they are misguided by wrong interpretation of Vedas (about the fruits of actions.) ( Bhagavata 11.5.5) Krishna says: "The brahmana is superior to all living beings by birth , let alone when he is austere, learned, content and devoted to Me." ( Bhagavata 10.86.53)

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm not convinced that we have the collective wisdom to return to any ancient system, regardless if it's better or not. Sounds like a whole lot of argument to me.

 

[Shantanu]

Shantanu, Bhagavata Purana undoubtedly supports Caste By Birth. "Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas are very near to Shri Hari’s feet by virtue of their birth and Vedic ceremonies, yet they are misguided by wrong interpretation of Vedas (about the fruits of actions.) ( Bhagavata 11.5.5) "The brahmana is superior to all living beings by birth , let alone when he is austere, learned, content and devoted to Me." ( Bhagavata 10.86.53)

That is very clear. Thanks for providing the references.

 

[Shantanu]

I'm not convinced that we have the collective wisdom to return to any ancient system, regardless if it's better or not. Sounds like a whole lot of argument to me.

A society needs firm foundations based on the realities of our constitution. If we can agree on what our constitution is progress can be made.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

The problem is one of human nature. The caste system is one of those things that looks pretty good on paper, but in practice it doesn't work. The caste system only works if equal amounts of respect and regard are given to each caste. For example, If you need people in your society to handle the dead so that you don't have to, then you owe them respect. You can't say - This class is better than that class because that class is icky.
But that's how the system works now. People use caste as an excuse to treat others with disdain and to exclude them from things.

The caste system might have worked thousands of years ago because there were far fewer people. In a village of a 100 people you damn well better have a family that can grow food, or hunt, or handle administrative business or cure the sick, because the survival of everyone else depends on it. It would work because the focus is survival not developing latent potential. That can only happen with scientific and medical advances. Once those show up, the population explodes and suddenly people don't have to spend their lives working to survive. They can entertain ideas of doing or being something else. That's the point we're at.

 

[Chakra]

The utility of caste is finished in the modern India. Now we are back to the qualities that a person is born with by the grace of God (that is for the theists who form the overwhelming majority here). A brahmin boy excels in business, a shudra teaches, the warrior tills fields, and a vaishya joins the army. Today's yuga-dharma is different from what it was 3,000 years ago.

From what I know, based on your qualities, you would automatically be placed in a family that suits your qualities. There were only a few exception, but there was rarely a case where a Brahmin boy was better at Vaishya Dharma than Brahmin Dharma. Even if he did switch to say, Kshatriya Dharma, he is still a Brahmin (as shown by Dronacharya). Nowadays, with inter-caste marriages and all, it doesn't work anymore.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The unexpected rise of dalit millionaires « Swaminomics
List of Brahmins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brahmin Chiefs of Indian Army: Bipin Chandra Joshi, Vishwa Nath Sharma, Arun Shridhar Vaidya and the infamous T.N.Raina of China War debacle.
to mention a few. Quite a long list of scientists and teachers from Vaishya community.

As I said, people now are doing what Gods decided that they are best for (according to their gunas). For all my life I worked for others, that way I am a shudra..

 

[Shantanu]

The problem is one of human nature. The caste system is one of those things that looks pretty good on paper, but in practice it doesn't work. The caste system only works if equal amounts of respect and regard are given to each caste. For example, If you need people in your society to handle the dead so that you don't have to, then you owe them respect. You can't say - This class is better than that class because that class is icky.
But that's how the system works now. People use caste as an excuse to treat others with disdain and to exclude them from things.

The caste system might have worked thousands of years ago because there were far fewer people. In a village of a 100 people you damn well better have a family that can grow food, or hunt, or handle administrative business or cure the sick, because the survival of everyone else depends on it. It would work because the focus is survival not developing latent potential. That can only happen with scientific and medical advances. Once those show up, the population explodes and suddenly people don't have to spend their lives working to survive. They can entertain ideas of doing or being something else. That's the point we're at.

You have made very useful points to this debate. Thank you for your contribution which we can build on.

The problem from the way I see it is the rigidity with which the caste system has traditionally been applied. This goes back to Manusmriti which is in need of revision. It should be flexible to enable people to change their roles in society. The fact remains that a society needs specialists and this specialism gets better if it is passed through families in which the parents teach their children to adopt the roles that the family fulfils to maintain the society. But if through genetic (svabhava) changes people feel that they have greater aptitude for the roles fulfilled by another class of people then in Hindu society there should be a mechanism that sanctions that change in role. The designation of varnas should not be for the entire lifetime and necessarily hereditary to enable those who feel compelled to change their class to do so freely. Further, the entrenchment of the designation of 'in-between' classes that have exacerbated the Dalit problem of untouchability by the operation of the traditional system which effectively outlawes marriages and sex between castes should be reformed, by the children of these relationships being assigned to a group that is to be decided by their parents only. I believe that the Dalit community has developed largely by the rigidity with which Manusmriti lays down the law on this. The religious community needs to revise it and come up with a new smriti that is more humane and meets the science of the realities of human biology.

The reform I am suggesting will for example enable Dalits to become Brahmins if they chose to adopt the role of teachers by instituting this in the Constitution of the nation. Dalits are already into business (millionaires) which should be a Vaishya role; and they are into politics, a Kshatriya role. But once they adopt those roles, the Constitution of India will have to delete their Dalit status and assign them the role of a Vaishya or Kshatriya as the case may be. Similarly, scheduled tribes should also have the facility to become mainstream Hindus by being allowed to adopt a varna of their choice and fulfil the role that they wish to society. It does India no good whatsoever to have people in the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes section (which goes back to the 'Depressed Classes' status given to such people by the British) so that the long-term goal of the government must be the elimination of these groups from society altogether. The varna system so retained will only sociologically divide people according to their mental state of the type of aptitude and character the people are, that is on the basis of their gunas.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

You have made very useful points to this debate. Thank you for your contribution which we can build on.

The problem from the way I see it is the rigidity with which the caste system has traditionally been applied. This goes back to Manusmriti which is in need of revision. It should be flexible to enable people to change their roles in society. The fact remains that a society needs specialists and this specialism gets better if it is passed through families in which the parents teach their children to adopt the roles that the family fulfils to maintain the society. But if through genetic (svabhava) changes people feel that they have greater aptitude for the roles fulfilled by another class of people then in Hindu society there should be a mechanism that sanctions that change in role. The designation of varnas should not be for the entire lifetime and necessarily hereditary to enable those who feel compelled to change their class to do so freely. Further, the entrenchment of the designation of 'in-between' classes that have exacerbated the Dalit problem of untouchability by the operation of the traditional system which effectively outlawes marriages and sex between castes should be reformed, by the children of these relationships being assigned to a group that is to be decided by their parents only. I believe that the Dalit community has developed largely by the rigidity with which Manusmriti lays down the law on this. The religious community needs to revise it and come up with a new smriti that is more humane and meets the science of the realities of human biology.

The reform I am suggesting will for example enable Dalits to become Brahmins if they chose to adopt the role of teachers by instituting this in the Constitution of the nation. Dalits are already into business (millionaires) which should be a Vaishya role; and they are into politics, a Kshatriya role. But once they adopt those roles, the Constitution of India will have to delete their Dalit status and assign them the role of a Vaishya or Kshatriya as the case may be. Similarly, scheduled tribes should also have the facility to become mainstream Hindus by being allowed to adopt a varna of their choice and fulfil the role that they wish to society. It does India no good whatsoever to have people in the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes section (which goes back to the 'Depressed Classes' status given to such people by the British) so that the long-term goal of the government must be the elimination of these groups from society altogether. The varna system so retained will only sociologically divide people according to their mental state of the type of aptitude and character the people are, that is on the basis of their gunas.

I agree with much of this, there's only one catch- There will always be people that need to fulfill those less appealing roles. (toilet cleaner, garbage handler, handling the dead) and truthfully there are enough people willing to do those jobs that it isn't a problem, but what's missing is respect for those roles. Society needs people who are willing to do the dirty work. It's a necessity for publish safety and health. The disconnect is that people from upper caste simultaneously take advantage of those "lower" services without valuing the people who do them.

The hereditary framework works really well if all you have for your education is your father/mother. But the wider world is full of experts in the same field and universities on top of that. This is good, because existing knowledge in a particular field can be expanded upon and shared. And then what you describe (The transfer from one caste to another based on actual affinity or qualifications) can happen.

I have one question - I had been told that an Indian can tell the caste of another simply by their last name. Is this true? (ever true or still true now?) If it is true, one would have to change their name and their vocation to avoid stigma wouldn't they?

 

[Shantanu]

I agree with much of this, there's only one catch- There will always be people that need to fulfill those less appealing roles. (toilet cleaner, garbage handler, handling the dead) and truthfully there are enough people willing to do those jobs that it isn't a problem, but what's missing is respect for those roles. Society needs people who are willing to do the dirty work. It's a necessity for publish safety and health. The disconnect is that people from upper caste simultaneously take advantage of those "lower" services without valuing the people who do them.

The hereditary framework works really well if all you have for your education is your father/mother. But the wider world is full of experts in the same field and universities on top of that. This is good, because existing knowledge in a particular field can be expanded upon and shared. And then what you describe (The transfer from one caste to another based on actual affinity or qualifications) can happen.

I have one question - I had been told that an Indian can tell the caste of another simply by their last name. Is this true? (ever true or still true now?) If it is true, one would have to change their name and their vocation to avoid stigma wouldn't they?

If you study surnames and varnas, you can associate many surnames with their particular varnas. This complication arose after centuries of Hindu evolution that was perpetuated through the gotra-system of marriages. Checking the surname slowly become a quick way of examining whether a marriage can take place such that it is restricted within the varnas but it is subjected to false matches. People forgot their gotras. Matching surnames even replaced the gotra basis for marriages. This needs to change and the gotra system for marriages restored for varna-compatibility. This is because there are surnames that belong to perhaps two varnas, like Mishras can be Brahmins as well as Kshtriyas (I believe, you need to check this). So surnames are not the basis for marriages and perpetuation of certain surnames should not be a factor. It creates jatis; the very animalistic grouping social system that varna system was supposed to replace. Perpetuation of a varna is the factor that needs to be operating.

So significant reforms are needed for society. The system will further break down when people are able to change their varnas and gotras but retain their surnames. I know that surnames are created even now by some Hindus. When people get their children married to those of only certain professions the varna system will be maintained.

 

[Poeticus]

"Where were the darbār-s when the yātudhāna-s ravaged our lands, raped our women, and enslaved our folk? Where were the bauhmaṇyā-s when countless of the forcefully converted besought them for deconversion? The impotency of the upper castes to prevent the calamities that befell mā-bhāratī attests to the ineptitude of any caste-based system! Rid it from these lands, eradicate it as if it were a plague, you heedless fools!

It does not matter to which caste you belong, nor do the gods and goddesses give a damn! When the saffron flag flies high and valiantly, it beckons only for the vīrya, not for a bauhmaṇ, darbār, vāṇiyā, or śūdra. To give allegiance to Lord Rām's dhvaja is a responsibility of every conscious Hindu. Yet here I stand, in a hall amongst cowards! Do not raise your gaze from the ground for that is where it belongs, groveling in your impotency, your inability to see the greater truth and meaning behind a cause that is worthy!

Know this, for it is true, what the yātudhāna-s tease us of: internecine bickering has been our greatest weakness. Such bickering, along with greed, uncontrollable lust for power, and complete disregard for the preservation of Dharma, have surely led us to where we are now. We aided in our own downfall with every step---but now I beg: not one step back!

And if there exist vīrya-s amongst your lot, once forsaken by the gods, stand tall and give your due! For the flag of Lord Ram still flies high, and that flag never forsakes! And forever know, under that flag you stand amongst comrades with heroes in assembly!"​

-Kuhūsā the Defiler in Recollections of Kutsāṅgira​