So You Believe Everything In The Bible?

[The Voice of Reason]

It's a path you must basicly take alone. You need to unlearn certain things such as religious upbringings and culture, and begin stark naked. There is an invisible God and it is His will for you to know His Word, so it would be wise to thank him for helping you with the journey, expect his help and give him thanks. If you're going to read and look for errors and discrepencies you lost before you even started. Of course there are textual mistakes and errors, God knows this, but these are the mistakes and words of men. You need to study and find God's word. God is a Spirit [invisible] and you are flesh, two different realms, each with its own boundaries. Flesh communicates with each other by way of symbols, be they spoken, pictures or sign language. But Spirit cannot communicate with mind, senses or reason. Spirit can communicate with spirit only, and flesh by way of the senses communicates only with the senses or the material realm. God overcomes this by His spirit which he put upon people in the Old Testament times and those who are born again during this Age of Grace. Another device of his to communicate with men and women in the material realm is by His only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ and finally by the written and spoken word. It should make sense to you that since you can't see God, then he either doesn't exist or is invisible, I choose to believe that he is invisible. Therefore in order for God to manifest Himself in the world of the flesh, He has to use concrete forms for our senses to recognize. Until you recieve the gift of the spirit of God and can communicate together in the realm of the spirit, the only possible way you can know God is His Word, the same as you are your word and I am my word. Our words are our communication of our thoughts, feelings and ideas. Similarly, God's Word is His thoughts and ideas communicated to us. When you make a statement and your word is your will, then your words are just as much a part of you as is your body. But the Scriptures contains the written Words, you should be aware that there is the spoken Words and the incarnate Word. These three means have gradually revealed God [invisible] throughout Time. So when I say rightly-divide the Word of God, I speak of right believing and knowledge of all three forms of Word. It's also possible that He already came unto you but you did not receive His Word, in either its spoken or written or incarnate form.

True blood - do you want to debate this post, or are you putting it out there for another reason? From a standpoint of rational thought and logic, I think I might be able to spot a hole here and there. If you do not wish to discuss this further (from that viewpoint) I'll leave it alone. You make a couple of nice statements in there, and I do not wish to alienate you. Perhaps we would be better to leave it there.
TVOR

 

[Ardhanariswar]

It's a path you must basicly take alone. You need to unlearn certain things such as religious upbringings and culture, and begin stark naked. There is an invisible God and it is His will for you to know His Word, so it would be wise to thank him for helping you with the journey, expect his help and give him thanks. If you're going to read and look for errors and discrepencies you lost before you even started. Of course there are textual mistakes and errors, God knows this, but these are the mistakes and words of men. You need to study and find God's word. God is a Spirit [invisible] and you are flesh, two different realms, each with its own boundaries. Flesh communicates with each other by way of symbols, be they spoken, pictures or sign language. But Spirit cannot communicate with mind, senses or reason. Spirit can communicate with spirit only, and flesh by way of the senses communicates only with the senses or the material realm. God overcomes this by His spirit which he put upon people in the Old Testament times and those who are born again during this Age of Grace. Another device of his to communicate with men and women in the material realm is by His only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ and finally by the written and spoken word. It should make sense to you that since you can't see God, then he either doesn't exist or is invisible, I choose to believe that he is invisible. Therefore in order for God to manifest Himself in the world of the flesh, He has to use concrete forms for our senses to recognize. Until you recieve the gift of the spirit of God and can communicate together in the realm of the spirit, the only possible way you can know God is His Word, the same as you are your word and I am my word. Our words are our communication of our thoughts, feelings and ideas. Similarly, God's Word is His thoughts and ideas communicated to us. When you make a statement and your word is your will, then your words are just as much a part of you as is your body. But the Scriptures contains the written Words, you should be aware that there is the spoken Words and the incarnate Word. These three means have gradually revealed God [invisible] throughout Time. So when I say rightly-divide the Word of God, I speak of right believing and knowledge of all three forms of Word. It's also possible that He already came unto you but you did not receive His Word, in either its spoken or written or incarnate form.

nothing in the christian religion is original! argh! they steal concepts and call it thiers. plegarists!

 

[Doc]

My question to you is this Doc - do you really believe that your morals come only from God? Is it possible that you have morals that reside within you that you would keep if you were to fall from grace with your God? My guess is that for the vast majority of Christians that I know, their morals truly reside within - whether they recognize that or not. I will never believe that most people would be amoral or immoral if they didn't have the crutch of God and church. At least, that is my deepest hope. If I am wrong, humanity is in for a harsh ride.

Respectfully,
TVOR

It is hard for me to answer that. Since I have been influenced by Scripture for much of my life! Deep down, many just come from the heart and based on what I think is the right thing to do whether someone tells me not to or what have you? Yet on the other hand, when I had lost my faith, I seemed to have lost many of the values I had. I wasn't the good person as much anymore. When I returned to faith, it helped me renew by christian values and I could once again think more clearly and maker better judgements on what was right and wrong. As bad as it seemed when I was spiritually lost, when I returned, I was able to think more for myself and not just follow everything I was told. I was able to understand the things wrong in what I was told sometimes. I could see through the lies better!

 

[The Voice of Reason]

It is hard for me to answer that. Since I have been influenced by Scripture for much of my life! Deep down, many just come from the heart and based on what I think is the right thing to do whether someone tells me not to or what have you? Yet on the other hand, when I had lost my faith, I seemed to have lost many of the values I had. I wasn't the good person as much anymore. When I returned to faith, it helped me renew by christian values and I could once again think more clearly and maker better judgements on what was right and wrong. As bad as it seemed when I was spiritually lost, when I returned, I was able to think more for myself and not just follow everything I was told. I was able to understand the things wrong in what I was told sometimes. I could see through the lies better!

Let me respond by saying first, wherever your morals come from, I am certain that you are a good person, with good intentions.
When you say that you were able to understand the things that were wrong in what you were told sometimes, I would suggest that this was the first time you were able to question the doctrine that you had been raised on (probably from birth, if you were like me). "I could see the lies better" indicates to me that you probably beginning to use rational thought, as opposed to blind faith in a revealed religion.
My guess is that even when you were "without religion" you were almost certainly the same person that you are now. Each of us (well, at least me) experiences times that truly make you question your own values and morals. I speak only for myself, but there are times when I am capable of acts that most people would find highly immoral - hey, I'm human. Who among us doesn't have things in our closet that we hope never see the light of day. I would bet that no male over the age of 25 or so hasn't done some things that are better left behind. I can't speak for females, but my guess is that it is probably true for many of them as well.

TVOR

 

[Faust]

Dear True Blood,
Yes and you have chosen your path and I have chosen mine.
I do not begrudge you your path, and I do not want you to begrudge me mine.
I was started on my path by those who could not answer my questions and offered "pat" answers such as "it's an article of faith". I could not settle for these evasions and began a long journey of discovery. This began at an early age for me and gained a sense of urgency around 25 years ago.
I have nothing against people practicing any beliefs that the want to it's when they seek to force everyone else to conduct themselves based on their beliefs that I get offended.

 

[roli]

John 5 :39 "YOU SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES, FOR IN THEM YOU THINK YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, THEY ARE THAT WHICH TESTIFIES OF ME,"

iN THE CONTEXT OF THIS VERSE, tHE SCRIPTURES ONLY SPEAK AND TESTIFY OF ETERNAL LIFE THRU JESUS CHRIST AND HIS DEATH, BURIAL ,AND RESURRECTION .THEY DO NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT BEFORE GOD OR FORGIVEN OF SINS.
THEY WERE INTENDED TO POINT BELIEVERS TO THE TRUTH

mANY IN THAT TIME AND TODAY BELIEVE IF THEY READ THE BIBLE,QUOTE SOME VERSES (EG: DO TO YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU WOULD TO YOURSELF ETC.) GO TO CHURCH AND DO SOME GOOD DEEDS ONCE IN AWHILE, IT MAKES THEM JUST BEFORE A HOLY GOD.

IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN WE CAN EARN SALVATION ON OUR OWN AND THAT IS ANOTHER TOPIC ALLTOGETHER

 

[roli]

Where Do Our Morals Come From, Open For Discussion

 

[Jaymes]

Roli: I don't think that's the topic of this thread.

 

[wizanda]

Drm I would say from the scripture you have pointed out you know the bible quite well

I have also looked at the greek and hebrew and when it says thy shall not murder

The word is a two part word, first is death and second glory of some sorts compared with other copies of the same word.

so alot of people may be in more of a mess as in the begining we where given fruit plants to eat, we lived for 500-1000 years

This would then make the commandments more world wide and match buddhism

Plus then we could live in symbiosis with the planet instead of being bacteria as many say

The other point is the annointing oil contains cannabis officaly annouced by the hebrew uni in 1980

Cannabis and all the other ingredient in the annointing oil can cure leprasy

Christian means annointed ones

So how many people can say they do follow the bible then?

Plus also most people dont even realise paul/saul contridicted half of what christ said its on my site if you are intrested

 

[Faust]

The blood link comes from men. The lineage of Mary would come from her father, Joseph
(posted by True Blood)
If the lineage comes from men, then even if your radical claims that the scriptures are miss translated and the Joseph referred to is Mary's father and not her husband, Mary would interrupt the lineage from David!

 

[linwood]

The blood link comes from men. The lineage of Mary would come from her father, Joseph
(posted by True Blood)

I`ve still seen no reason to believe Joseph was her father when it is repeated throughout the book that he is her husband...even for the sake of argument.

 

[harold e. rice]

Interesting. Actually the Temple market had become dishonest, a den of thieves. Jesus was not in any way cruel or physically abusive to those men; he just pointedly told them to get out. Although he did not touch any of the merchants, he did overthrow their tables and seats. You should note this is a completely different occasion from the recorded events in John 2:15 which too place earlier in his ministry. John 2:15 and 16 reads: "And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all [the sheep and oxen] out of the temple, and ["and" is "both" in the text] the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise." Jesus drove out the four-legged animals with a whip; he poured out the money and overthrew the tables [inanimate objects]. He then used persuasion to authoritatively tell the people to take their dove sacrifices and leave. He never laid a whip to a human being as tradition tries to make you believe

[font=Arial, Helvetica]The story in John differs from the one in Mark, Matthews and Luke and is very contradictory as to when Jesus supposedly entered the temple. It was only once that he entered the temple, at the beginning of his ministry or near the end. One of these writers got it wrong.

There is nothing in scripture that indicate that the merchants were Dishonest or robbing the people. This is an explanation made up by Christian apologist.

According to Jewish law it was permissible for merchant to sell the animal for those that didn’t bring their own sacrifice with them to the temple. There was a rule that only a certain coin could to be used to pay the temple tax charged for admission. Therefore the moneychanger were there by law to render this service. On top of that, there was a special building in a far corner away from the temple that was designated for this purpose. They were not actually selling in the temple as the bible indicates.

Something is wrong with this entire story. Did Jesus make a big mistake?

[/font]

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]There was a rule that only a certain coin could to be used to pay the temple tax charged for admission. Therefore the moneychanger were there by law to render this service. On top of that, there was a special building in a far corner away from the temple that was designated for this purpose.[/font]

That's pretty interesting. Would you mind providing your source(s) for this information?

 

[spacemantip]

I have studied Hebrew and Greek (a little) and have a long way to go but one thing I am convinced of is that the Bible is in fact GOD's word to mankind (based on the Hebrew and Aramaic Greek).

What I think has been done in all other languages is that mankind has applied wordly meanings (but of course) which cannot give complete and total understanding to GODs message to us. Why would GOD communicate to us in words that cannot really give clear meaning? Because (I believe) that diversification amoung peoples is an element for growth, even in our paranoia and distrust of the unknown.

Ex: GOD is HOLY..........in all actuality the word HOLY is only discriptive of GOD but not conclusive.

My point is that in the written word we as humans have only a finite understanding as to what GOD meant. Ex: Thou Shall Not Kill....that is an english interpretation or translation and not all people can put together the idea of not killing and then going to war.

ex 2: Unless you hate your father and your mother and etc.etc. you are not worthy to enter into the gates of Heaven..............

How does one equate Love your neighbor as yourself with Hate for your father ,maother etc etc.

Believing everything is the Bible is of course a decision. Knowing every intent and possibility that the Bible contains is an impossibilty (except for the original author)

I believe that everything in the Bible is TRUE. I also know that I do not understand it all. I believe because I have faith that the GOD I worship and the GOD who instructs me has full knowledge and so I can put my TRUST in HIM to make me aware of what HE wants me to know.

 

[Ceridwen018]

What I think has been done in all other languages is that mankind has applied wordly meanings (but of course) which cannot give complete and total understanding to GODs message to us. Why would GOD communicate to us in words that cannot really give clear meaning? Because (I believe) that diversification amoung peoples is an element for growth, even in our paranoia and distrust of the unknown.

You reaction to this dilemma is interesting, although hardly surprising. You recognize that the words used in the bible are perhaps not as 'meaningful' and complete as they could be, so you assume they must have been jarbled from their initial perfection by sinful man, instead of even considering the idea that they were possibly never perfect even in the beginning, i.e., that they are not divinely inspired.

I assume that you made this decision quite hastily, and without any real research.

 

[precept]

Mis-understanding and mis-interpreting the bible is itself the biggest sin in Christendom.

The bible is not a hand book of do's and don'ts..or else one would follow the example of the good guys and eschew the example of the bad guys. But yet the bible chronicles the examples of all....good and bad guys alike. Without favoritism, ther bible points out the good points and bad points of both good and bad guys alike.

A case in point is the good guy king David, and the chronicling of the bad things he did. And in contrast is bad guy, the king of Israel, king Manasseh who even sacrificed his own children to his heathen gods.

The bible is but a book that contains the word of God to humanity. Words that are meant to guide humans in how they relate with one another and with God.

These words are cast within the culture of the times. And according to, and depending on that particular culture..."God winked at their ignorance re following faithfully His word"..Acts 17:30

Marriage and concubinage are classic examples of the latitude enjoyed even by those who walked close to God Himself in those different cultures.

Abraham had concubines; a practice that is as wrong as committing adultery, then as well as today..."But unto the sons of the concubines which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts....." Genesis 25:6
This culture of more than one wife complete with concubines was also practiced by Abraham's grandson, Jacob; and irony of all ironies, Judah was born to Leah, his wife given in deceit by his uncle Laban.
You would think that God would support Jacob in frowning on the deceit played on Jacob, and support Jacob in his refusal to love his wife of deceit, Leah. Jacob refused to love Leah, his wife given in deceit; and waited another seven years to get the wife he truly loved, Leah's sister, Rachel.
Imagine the pain of Leah; knowing that she was not loved by her husband; and also knowing that it hadn't been up to her; she was powerless to go against her father's wishes. Imagine also her pain in not being able to bear Jacob children. If you can imagine the double agony she endured, then you will be able to catch a glimpse of the God of understanding, the God of love.
Yes! this God of understanding, not only "opened the womb" of Leah, but caused her to bear Levi "earthly ancestral father" and--ancestral father of God's holy priesthood--as well as Judah "earthly ancestral father" and--ancestral father to king David and King Jesus.

Certainly there is no indication here of God's commanding anyone to stone anyone...There must then be a reason for such commands; and when such reasons are researched, they will be as unfathomable as his reasons for opening the womb of Leah whom Jacob hated and closing the womb of Rachel whom Jacob loved.

precept

 

[t3gah]

The one thing that gets me in the bible is the story of the true sons of god looking to score with some women on earth, coming down from heaven without god stopping them and the true sons fathering children with earth women.

The instances I remember in the scriptures where supernatural interaction with a female resulted in a child was when god opened some womens wombs so that they were no longer barren and they had children and also mary with jesus.

In the instances above it was god's will that those children and jesus came to be. So how is it that these 'angels the forgot their place' could do the same thing as god? Where did the sperm come from?

 

[Betho_br]

Indeed. Enough to know human misery.