So, which sect/denominatios of Islam is the right one?

[Smart_Guy]

Salam All.

I'll just post a verse from the Quran that I believe is the answer to the subject question:

Quran 6:159 (translation):

Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only left to God; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

My personal interpretation is that Muslims should not divide themselves into sects. Once they do, they would be lost in this life until they stop doing so. If they don't, their answer will be with God in the judgement day.​

 

[Union]

100% agreed.
1 GOD
1Prophet
1 Book
1 Nation
------------------
Power of 1

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

The issue isn't just sects, for example, during the life time of the Prophet PBUH, there were numerous disagreements and differences in opinion by his companions and he, Prophet Muhammad PBUH allowed such things, as long last hey were in line with the Qu'ran and Sunnah.

A brief example, originating from the life time of Prophet Muhammad PBH himself (I can't remember some of the details but ask your local imam about this hadith, it is beautiful) there were instances of disagreement, one such arose when the Prophet PBUH, sent a group of companions out on a journey and told them to pray a certain prayer only when they had reached the required destination. As is often the case, there were delays during the travels and by the time it was required to pray, they were still some distance from the destination. One group of companions refused to travel any further without praying and the other group refused to pray anywhere other than what the Prophet PBUH had told them. An argument ensued and the two groups parted ways.

At the end of the journey, when the companions reached Madinah, they all went to the Prophet PBUH, to gain his acceptance on who had been right. He, PBUH, said that both groups were right, because the first group had followed the commandment of Allah on avoiding the delaying of prayers and the second group had followed the commandment of the Messenger of Allah PBUH. Two differences, two separate groups, both are right. That is Islam.

How does this relate to modern day sects? Where, most sects, whether you agree with them or not, define their opinions by the Quran and Sunnah and as long as these two sources and intentions support them, all differing groups will be right. An example is the celebration of Mawlid, the birthday of our beloved Prophet PBUH. One group celebrates it and sings nasheeds and recites durud upon RasulAllah. Another group forbids this.

Who is right? The reality is, both are likely to be right. One group does what Allah commands, when He Himself states that He sends salam and blessings (durud) upon RasulAllah, why should we as people be forbidden from doing what Allah encourages? The other group forbids the celebration of Maulid because it may lead to over the top praise and shirk in their opinions, again they are also right. The problem arises when people claim that maulid or no maulid is a must, that one or other is a sin. That's wrong. That in itself is an innovation, to claim something Allah has allowed as a sin. But if sects keep to their teachings and rightful interpretations of the Quran and Sunnah, neither opinion can be wrong.

 

[sufi62]

There was another Hadith that I read recently, in Bukhari, about individual differences in reciting the Qur'an during Salat:

I don't rememebr all the details, but the gist was that one man heard another reciting the surah with different intonation than the way Muhammad taught it to him (the first guy) - The words were right, but the tajweed was different. He took the other guy to Muhammad (pbuh) and told him. Muhammad asked each one to recite the surah. The first one recited it the way he had been taught. The Prophet said "This recitation is from Allah".
Then he asked the second guy to recite it. He did so, and the Prophet said "This also is from Allah".

The point of the hadith, and its relevance to this discussion, was that although they had a difference, both were in line with the Sunnah. Both recited the correct words, and that's what mattered. Differences like this are allowable, as long as they don't violate the teaching of Allah or the Prophet.

 

[Union]

The issue isn't just sects, for example, during the life time of the Prophet PBUH, there were numerous disagreements and differences in opinion by his companions and he, Prophet Muhammad PBUH allowed such things, as long last hey were in line with the Qu'ran and Sunnah.

A brief example, originating from the life time of Prophet Muhammad PBH himself (I can't remember some of the details but ask your local imam about this hadith, it is beautiful) there were instances of disagreement, one such arose when the Prophet PBUH, sent a group of companions out on a journey and told them to pray a certain prayer only when they had reached the required destination. As is often the case, there were delays during the travels and by the time it was required to pray, they were still some distance from the destination. One group of companions refused to travel any further without praying and the other group refused to pray anywhere other than what the Prophet PBUH had told them. An argument ensued and the two groups parted ways.

At the end of the journey, when the companions reached Madinah, they all went to the Prophet PBUH, to gain his acceptance on who had been right. He, PBUH, said that both groups were right, because the first group had followed the commandment of Allah on avoiding the delaying of prayers and the second group had followed the commandment of the Messenger of Allah PBUH. Two differences, two separate groups, both are right. That is Islam.

How does this relate to modern day sects? Where, most sects, whether you agree with them or not, define their opinions by the Quran and Sunnah and as long as these two sources and intentions support them, all differing groups will be right. An example is the celebration of Mawlid, the birthday of our beloved Prophet PBUH. One group celebrates it and sings nasheeds and recites durud upon RasulAllah. Another group forbids this.

Who is right? The reality is, both are likely to be right. One group does what Allah commands, when He Himself states that He sends salam and blessings (durud) upon RasulAllah, why should we as people be forbidden from doing what Allah encourages? The other group forbids the celebration of Maulid because it may lead to over the top praise and shirk in their opinions, again they are also right. The problem arises when people claim that maulid or no maulid is a must, that one or other is a sin. That's wrong. That in itself is an innovation, to claim something Allah has allowed as a sin. But if sects keep to their teachings and rightful interpretations of the Quran and Sunnah, neither opinion can be wrong.

There was another Hadith that I read recently, in Bukhari, about individual differences in reciting the Qur'an during Salat:

I don't rememebr all the details, but the gist was that one man heard another reciting the surah with different intonation than the way Muhammad taught it to him (the first guy) - The words were right, but the tajweed was different. He took the other guy to Muhammad (pbuh) and told him. Muhammad asked each one to recite the surah. The first one recited it the way he had been taught. The Prophet said "This recitation is from Allah".
Then he asked the second guy to recite it. He did so, and the Prophet said "This also is from Allah".

The point of the hadith, and its relevance to this discussion, was that although they had a difference, both were in line with the Sunnah. Both recited the correct words, and that's what mattered. Differences like this are allowable, as long as they don't violate the teaching of Allah or the Prophet.

The issue is not whether Muslim agree or do not agree rather whether we can create sects or not . As far as the Qur'an is concerned , if somebody does so , s/he is not in the fold of Islam , has no relation with prophet Muhammad .

Qur'an called us Muslim , hence if somebody creates sect and say I am Sunni/Shia/Wahabi/Salafi Muslim obviously he is violating the command of ALLAH swt at the very first place .

If the root is rotten , what kind of fruit can we accept from that tree ?

 

[Godobeyer]

It's first time I understand that word "shia" شيعا mean sects !

http://quran.com/6/159

 

[mojtaba]

Ayatullah Khamenei, Supreme leader of Iran,

Hajj Message 2014

Pure Islam is the Islam of tolerance and spirituality, the Islam of piety and democracy, the Islam of being "forceful against the unbelievers, merciful towards the believers".

American Islam is putting the clothes of Islam on servitude to foreigners and enmity with the Islamic Ummah, the Islam that stokes the fire of division among Muslims, instead of trust in divine promises, it trusts in the enemies of God, instead of fighting with the Zionists and arrogance it fights with its Muslim brothers, it unites with arrogant America against its own people or other peoples. It is not Islam, it is a dangerous and deadly hypocrisy which every sincere Muslim has to fight against.

 

[mojtaba]

It's first time I understand that word "shia" شيعا mean sects !

http://quran.com/6/159

I saw the link. That was Shiya-'an,[شيَعاً], not Shia[شيعة].

The term Shia in Qur'an is in these verses,

[37:83]Indeed Abraham was among his(i.e., Noah) Shia.

[28:15]He(i.e. Moses) found there two men fighting, this one from among his Shia, and that one from his enemies.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

The issue is not whether Muslim agree or do not agree rather whether we can create sects or not . As far as the Qur'an is concerned , if somebody does so , s/he is not in the fold of Islam , has no relation with prophet Muhammad .

Qur'an called us Muslim , hence if somebody creates sect and say I am Sunni/Shia/Wahabi/Salafi Muslim obviously he is violating the command of ALLAH swt at the very first place .

If the root is rotten , what kind of fruit can we accept from that tree ?

You have ENTIRELY missed the point. Every one, whether Shia or Sunni would label themselves, first and foremost as a Muslim. I've never come across any one, from any Muslim group, who labels themselves first as a Sunni, then as a Muslim. Each one of these people, from all the various groups, would believe they are following the great imams of the past who themselves interpreted and studied various aspects of the Quran and Sunnah and without whom, Islam would not have reached the far corners of the earth. Each one, if their view is based upon correct evidence from the Quran and Sunnah, is entitled to that view.
As evidenced by the Hadith I repeated. There are many others.

Now, let me give a further example: if someone wishes to learn how to pray, how will he do that? There is no instruction on the format of prayer in the Quran. We learned prayer from the example of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and then those who further relayed the message, however, slight differences have cropped up as is bound to happen over time and the relaying of a verbal message outside the Quran. When you pray, how do you do it? Is it within the instructions of the Hannafi school? Or Hanbali? Or Maliki? Or Shafi? Or one of the Shia schools? Whatever the physicality of prayer, we are all still praying to the same God and in the same direction, thus the difference in opinion is on how, not why. This means, that one can not simply state "I am neither sunni nor shia"...then how do you pray? Did you receive a direct message from God on prayer instructions?

The issue of sects themselves and what the Quran/Sunnah states, is more to do with groups such as Ahmaddis or groups in the US such as NOI, who claim to be Muslim but have created their own criteria, far outside the remits of both the Quran and the Sunnah (e.g. believing in more messengers, believing in new versions of the creation of man etc).

I hope you read this fully and understand my point of view and that of the great scholars of Islam on the view of opinions and differences.

 

[Union]

You have ENTIRELY missed the point. Every one, whether Shia or Sunni would label themselves, first and foremost as a Muslim. I've never come across any one, from any Muslim group, who labels themselves first as a Sunni, then as a Muslim. Each one of these people, from all the various groups, would believe they are following the great imams of the past who themselves interpreted and studied various aspects of the Quran and Sunnah and without whom, Islam would not have reached the far corners of the earth. Each one, if their view is based upon correct evidence from the Quran and Sunnah, is entitled to that view.
As evidenced by the Hadith I repeated. There are many others.

Now, let me give a further example: if someone wishes to learn how to pray, how will he do that? There is no instruction on the format of prayer in the Quran. We learned prayer from the example of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and then those who further relayed the message, however, slight differences have cropped up as is bound to happen over time and the relaying of a verbal message outside the Quran. When you pray, how do you do it? Is it within the instructions of the Hannafi school? Or Hanbali? Or Maliki? Or Shafi? Or one of the Shia schools? Whatever the physicality of prayer, we are all still praying to the same God and in the same direction, thus the difference in opinion is on how, not why. This means, that one can not simply state "I am neither sunni nor shia"...then how do you pray? Did you receive a direct message from God on prayer instructions?

The issue of sects themselves and what the Quran/Sunnah states, is more to do with groups such as Ahmaddis or groups in the US such as NOI, who claim to be Muslim but have created their own criteria, far outside the remits of both the Quran and the Sunnah (e.g. believing in more messengers, believing in new versions of the creation of man etc).

I hope you read this fully and understand my point of view and that of the great scholars of Islam on the view of opinions and differences.

As far as Quran is concerned there is no scope of making a subdivision in Muslim nation e.g. Sunni and Shia . It needs just an honest heart to obey this vital instruction of GOD. Otherwise Satan could make million excuses why Muslim nation should divide and then subdivide and then be a chess board as it is now.

ALLAH swt described prayers in Qur'an in more than 100 verses but still these are not enough for Shia and Sunni. It repeats the same sentiment....do not obey the Qur'an...

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

As far as Quran is concerned there is no scope of making a subdivision in Muslim nation e.g. Sunni and Shia . It needs just an honest heart to obey this vital instruction of GOD. Otherwise Satan could make million excuses why Muslim nation should divide and then subdivide and then be a chess board as it is now.

ALLAH swt described prayers in Qur'an in more than 100 verses but still these are not enough for Shia and Sunni. It repeats the same sentiment....do not obey the Qur'an...

How so? Which verse tells you when to stand, when to prostate, when to sit, how to sit, what to recite when sitting/standing/prostating and so on?

But again, that is besides the point. Let's agree to disagree on this.

 

[Yasin-shalal]

In the name of God, the compassionate and the merciful

Salam all,
May Allah guide us all.

Before starting my arguments and any response to the question, I'm going to make two things clear.

1- Well, it's clear that the mentioned verse(Quran 6:159) forbids any illogical divisions in Islamic society. Saying that "I'm Shia" and " He is Sunni" or "We are Wahhabi" and "They are Hanafi" or...seeking for divisions and superiority is wrong.

2- Let's suppose Mr.x as a Muslim has got the wrong path. Should I hate him just because he doesnt wanna admit my beliefs! Can I make him go to high levels of Paradise by force!!=>The answer is NO. Thus, regarding all the sects, with their differences, one should love all his Muslim brothers. We are all brothers and Muslims with the same God, prophet and book. May Allah help me to achieve it.


My arguments to the issue will be risen up from two different point of view:

a) From an individual Muslim point of view
b) From Muslim society ( whole Islamic Ummah) point of view

From an individual Muslim point of view:

This one starts with a question; what an individual Muslim is likely to lose if he/she is not Shia/Sunni?

The fact that some sects of Islam have some precious practices that the other sects may not have, is undeniable. There are some practices in Shafei sect which are ignored in Hanbali sect. There are some practices in Sunni sects which are ignored in Shia sects. There are some precious beliefs in Imami sect which are ignored in some other sects.

In my idea, an individual Muslim should be aware of all the precious practices and beliefs of all the sects. Here is an example:

Prophet Muhammad(pbuh):
Waiting for Faraj(Mahdi's arrival) is Ibadat(praying).

Prophet Muhammad(pbuh):
The highest degree of Ibadat, is to wait for Mahdi's arrival.(to make your self ready to help him)

Prophet Muhammad(pbuh):
Till Mahdi's arrival, human being will be able to open one door of knowledge by half, when he appears he will open 26 other doors by himself.

Imam as-Sadiq(pbuh), the 6th successor of the 12 promised successors:
His life will be in danger. (In response to a Muslim who asked :" What's the secret of Mahdi's absence?)

Mahdi (pbuh):
Pray for my arrival and ask God to hasten it.

Here is one of the precious thing that Sunni brothers miss:
They dont know who Mahdi(pbuh) is. How he will appear. How can they help him. How they can save his life. What exactly the signs of his arrival is. and....

I'm well aware that there are some precious practices in other sects which I need to know.

From Muslim society ( whole Islamic Ummah) point of view:

How can one ignore the importance of a true leadership system?
Classical Sunni leadership belief:
Any Muslim king must be followed unless he has a serious problem with pillars of Islam (Is drinking wine OK?!!)

Isnt it a defect?!

I'm well aware that there may be also some defects in my sect.

To sum up briefly:
Let's share all good and precious things of our sects. No matter what we call ourselves.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Salam All.

I'll just post a verse from the Quran that I believe is the answer to the subject question:

Quran 6:159 (translation):
Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only

to God; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

My personal interpretation is that Muslims should not divide themselves into sects. Once they do, they would be lost in this life until they stop doing so. If they don't, their answer will be with God in the judgement day.​

Salaam,

What do you think it mean to divide into sects?

Wassalaam

 

[Smart_Guy]

Salaam,

What do you think it mean to divide into sects?

Wassalaam

Peace be upon you too.

I think it means separation. Once separation labeling happens, people could have that sense of being different than other sects. If it is one religions becoming different sects, different beliefs show up, and they could be conflicting.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Peace be upon you too.

I think it means separation. Once separation labeling happens, people could have that sense of being different than other sects. If it is one religions becoming different sects, different beliefs show up, and they could be conflicting.

Salaam,

When you say separation, do you mean one or more groups setting itself/themselves apart from others, or one or more groups being set apart by others?

And how should we deal with Muslims whose beliefs do appear to be very different from ours, so much so that some of us might not even consider them Muslims? Indeed, what are the criteria for distinguishing Muslims from non-Muslims?

Wassalaam

 

[Smart_Guy]

Salaam,

When you say separation, do you mean one or more groups setting itself/themselves apart from others, or one or more groups being set apart by others?

And how should we deal with Muslims whose beliefs do appear to be very different from ours, so much so that some of us might not even consider them Muslims? Indeed, what are the criteria for distinguishing Muslims from non-Muslims?

Wassalaam

I mean it makes Muslims separate themselves from each other that at some point they could even consider each other non Muslims. Some Shia and Some SUnnah for example call each others non believers and that's a problem.

I'm really sure sure how we can solve those. I wish I had answers. But as long as one believe that there is only one God worthy of worship and Muhammad is His creation and messenger, I believe they are Muslims.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I mean it makes Muslims separate themselves from each other that at some point they could even consider each other non Muslims. Some Shia and Some SUnnah for example call each others non believers and that's a problem.

I'm really sure sure how we can solve those. I wish I had answers. But as long as one believe that there is only one God worthy of worship and Muhammad is His creation and messenger, I believe they are Muslims.

Salaam,

Okay, I see where you are coming from. But if we accept that there is a range of beliefs one can hold and still be a Muslim, it seems natural that we might want to associate with others who share similar beliefs with us more than with those whose beliefs are rather different, particularly when it comes to certain kinds of practices which we do not agree with (even if we are still comfortable calling those who practice in that way Muslims). Much as we might want to associate more with other Muslims than non-Muslims. And in order to identify those whose beliefs and practices are closer to ours, it might be useful to use a label of some kind or other. So I am not sure it is the separation and the label that is the problem, but rather how we treat other Muslims whose beliefs/practices are different, as indeed how we treat non-Muslims (dependent of course to an extent on how they treat us). In the Qur'aanic verse which you quoted at the start of this thread, Allaah is not saying do not separate into groups/sects (with different labels, etc.) as such, They are telling Muhammad (s) (and by extension us) to be very careful not to get caught up in the often petty (though potentially dangerous) conflicts than can arise between groups (unless one group is very clearly acting in an aggressive, oppressive, unjust way towards another), and more importantly still not to judge whether or not they are Muslims, but to leave them be (again, with caveats around justice, protection against fundamental harms, etc.).

Wassalaam

 

[Smart_Guy]

Salaam,

Okay, I see where you are coming from. But if we accept that there is a range of beliefs one can hold and still be a Muslim, it seems natural that we might want to associate with others who share similar beliefs with us more than with those whose beliefs are rather different, particularly when it comes to certain kinds of practices which we do not agree with (even if we are still comfortable calling those who practice in that way Muslims). Much as we might want to associate more with other Muslims than non-Muslims. And in order to identify those whose beliefs and practices are closer to ours, it might be useful to use a label of some kind or other. So I am not sure it is the separation and the label that is the problem, but rather how we treat other Muslims whose beliefs/practices are different, as indeed how we treat non-Muslims (dependent of course to an extent on how they treat us). In the Qur'aanic verse which you quoted at the start of this thread, Allaah is not saying do not separate into groups/sects (with different labels, etc.) as such, They are telling Muhammad (s) (and by extension us) to be very careful not to get caught up in the often petty (though potentially dangerous) conflicts than can arise between groups (unless one group is very clearly acting in an aggressive, oppressive, unjust way towards another), and more importantly still not to judge whether or not they are Muslims, but to leave them be (again, with caveats around justice, protection against fundamental harms, etc.).

Wassalaam

Maybe you're right. The verse is there anyway and I guess it depends on how individuals interpret it. To me, it says it is wrong to divide religion into sects. Here's the verse in Arabic, in it's original form, for the reference: http://quran.com/6/159

 

[Raahim]

Salam All.

I'll just post a verse from the Quran that I believe is the answer to the subject question:

Quran 6:159 (translation):
Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only

to God; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

My personal interpretation is that Muslims should not divide themselves into sects. Once they do, they would be lost in this life until they stop doing so. If they don't, their answer will be with God in the judgement day.​

I believe no division is the right one, but then I ask myself - if no division is right is Islam right? There must be unity for Islam to function as it really should be to have perfect practice of it but I doubt there will ever be one. I simply can't agree with those people who claim infidels should be killed no matter what etc. Even if some denomination overcomes completely it's just a matter of time when it will start to fall apart again.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I believe no division is the right one, but then I ask myself - if no division is right is Islam right? There must be unity for Islam to function as it really should be to have perfect practice of it but I doubt there will ever be one. I simply can't agree with those people who claim infidels should be killed no matter what etc. Even if some denomination overcomes completely it's just a matter of time when it will start to fall apart again.

I prefer saying that no division is the right or the wrong. It is normal that even individuals have different beliefs. For us humans, we should just consider them all Muslims and leave the real decision to God. I believe that's what the subject verse means by "Their affair is only left to God; then He will inform them about what they used to do". And no, just being a non Muslim does not mean they should be killed, I agree with you. That's something said by those who don't know Islam well or have an agenda against Islam, by cherry picking verses without knowing (or wanting to know) other related verses governing them.

All Muslims should accept each others as Muslims. If they question something, they should not judge them for it, they should just leave it to God. Only He knows what's in our hearts.