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So What Happened To All The Changes, Tribulations, And Woe Jesus Had Promised?

ecco

Veteran Member
The more you invest the greater the return..... Baha'u'llah said that.

“The incomparable Creator hath created all men from one same substance, and hath exalted their reality above the rest of His creatures. Success or failure, gain or loss, must, therefore, depend upon man’s own exertions. The more he striveth, the greater will be his progress.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 81-82

Repeatedly investigating bogus religious claims falls into the category of:
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”
Einstein Mar 23, 2017​

Every one of your links that I have followed has led to nothing more than reading more unsubstantiated nonsense. Why would you expect me to continue to follow them forever?

As just another example, you were trying to show Biblical prophecies that prophesied Balulus coming. Did I really need to investigate more than one to know that your prophecies were nonsensical? Do you think I would pursue such insanity?

On the other hand, you might want to consider why you would repeatedly post links that do not support your position.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Why are scriptures worthless if they can have more than one meaning, IF all those meanings are correct and IF they do not contradict each other?
I don't think you realize how many "IF"s you used.


Nevertheless, are you admitting that IF there are contradictions and IF all those meaning are not correct, then scripture is worthless?

There are contradictions in scripture regardless of interpretation.
There are things in scripture that are incorrect regardless of interpretation.
Ergo, scripture is worthless.

Actually, the morals ascribed to in scripture would be enough to discredit it entirely.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Besides, we are not living in the days of old. There are better ways to protect scriptures in this modern age.
I do not worry about the future, I do not even think about it.
Whatever will happen will happen and it will be God's Will.

Then why did you bother making the absurd comment: "There are better ways to protect scriptures in this modern age".


Ah, yes. The old, "It's God's Will". A school bus accident kills half of the ten-year-olds on board. Which half? "It's God's Will". Why was the bus in an accident? "It's God's Will". 227,898 die in a tsunami in 2004. "It's Gods Will".

By that logic, it was God's Will that 6,000,000 Jews died at the hand of the Nazis.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Let me know the next time you have God on the examining table...

No one needed to put Atlas or Thor or the Abrahamic God on a table to examine him. All that was necessary was delving a bit into the origins. All that was necessary was reading the literature and stories supporting him/her. All that was necessary was understanding man's need for gods.



Rigorously examined by WHO?

By rational people in some cases. By members of other religions in most cases.

Gods are the creation of man's imaginings. PERIOD.

Or are you someone who believes Thor is a real god who causes lightning?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I worship ONLY GOD because that is what Baha'u'llah enjoins us to do.
There is NOTHING in ANY prayer about worshiping Baha'u'llah.

Short Obligatory Prayer

TO BE RECITED ONCE IN TWENTY FOUR HOURS, AT NOON.

I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth.

There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.
I stand corrected - maybe-.

I may be wrong but 90% of your supportive writing is about Balulu and Shogi Effendi. You write very little about the glories of God.

But, whatever.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
You falsely accused me of lying. That became very clear in my last post. But, I am familiar enough with holier than thou Christians to know they never admit any wrongdoing. Your God forgives all your sins, right?

Not really. You were simply called out for promoting things Gods Word does not teach. As shown to you through the scriptures earlier, it is your interpretation of the scriptures that are in error not the scriptures. This was shown to you by adding in the context you left out but you do not believe God's Word because you do not know God so you choose to deny God's Word in order to follow things that are not biblical and have no truth in them. You are simply trying to make the Word of God say somthing it is not saying because you do not understands the scriptures because you do not know God. All you have managed to do in our conversation is to prove God's Word true. For this I thank you :)
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
ecco said: Genesis 34 does not contain the word "Rape". Deuteronomy 22 does not contain the word "Rape".
Respoded with...

3rdAngel said: There is no Hebrew equivallent word used for rape in the bible although some translations render "laying with her by force" as "rape" to the context of the scriptures. The english definition of rape is forced non consenual sex. Your denial of Gods Word is simply amazing. Hard to see when you close your eyes and put your hands over your ears.

For example your false claims are put to rest here...

New International Version
When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and raped her.

New Living Translation
But when the local prince, Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, saw Dinah, he seized her and raped her.

Berean Study Bible
When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the region, saw her, he took her and lay with her by force.

New American Standard Bible
When Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he took her and lay with her by force.

Christian Standard Bible
When Shechem--son of Hamor the Hivite, who was the region's chieftain--saw her, he took her and raped her.

Contemporary English Version
She was seen by Hamor's son Shechem, the leader of the Hivites, and he grabbed her and raped her.

Good News Translation
When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, who was chief of that region, saw her, he took her and raped her.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, a prince of the region, saw her, he took her and raped her.

International Standard Version
When Hamor the Hivite's son Shechem, the regional leader, saw her, he grabbed her and raped her, humiliating her.

NET Bible
When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, who ruled that area, saw her, he grabbed her, forced himself on her, and sexually assaulted her.

New Heart English Bible
Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of the land, saw her. He took her, and raped her, and humiliated her.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
When Shechem, son of the local ruler Hamor the Hivite, saw her, he took her and raped her.

New American Standard 1977
And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he took her and lay with her by force.

The "COPOUT" is simply your side. :)

Is that your copout? The Bible doesn't use the word "rape". Is this your rational?

Hmmm what :confused:? Please get your facts right before posting. See above. This is another good example of you claiming things that are not biblical because you do not know God's Word because you do not know God proving the bible true. For this I thank you :)

The Hebrew Bible contains several references, both in Mosaic law as well as in its narrative portions, to acts that would be considered rape in the modern world.[1] Hebrew lacks a legal or technical term for rape, since in Biblical times, a sexual assault against another man's daughter, wife, or betrothed could only be a theft of that man's sexual property, rather than an offense against the woman herself.

Your point here is? Or are you agreeing with what I have previously posted to you in post # 305 linked.

What do you think the words "would be considered rape in the modern world" mean?

Did you read post # 305 linked? Already answered.

The very fact that the Hebrews used terms like "theft of that man's sexual property" shows the complete, abject disdain the scripture writers had for women. A woman is no more than "a man's sexual property". That's really sick. That's really disgusting. Even more sick and disgusting is that anyone, today, would attempt to justify it.

There you go again making claims that are not biblical and have no basis in truth. The bible does not use a term "theft of that man's sexual property". That is you trying to make the bible say something it does not again. What is disgusting is you trying to make the scriptures say things they are not saying.

Then you went on to criticize me for not knowing the Bible.
I have actually been thanking you. I enjoy our conversations. It is true you do not understand God's Word because you do not know God which proves the scripture true. "The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" *1 Corinthians 2:14. You have also been shown through the scriptures and context you leave out that your interpretation of the scriptures have no truth in them. All you have managed to do in our conversation is to prove God's Word true. For this I thank you :)
In fact, you are the one who does not know the Bible. I stated the Bible supports rape. I showed one very clear instance of it. There are others.
The bible show many accounts of the Evil deeds that men have done. There is no scripture in God's Word that says God condones rape. This is simply a lie on your behalf because you do not understand the bible because you do not know God.

Now my friend, if you disagree please show me a scripture that says God supports rape?

If you cannot why are you pretending God's Word is saying things it never has? Why you would rather promote and believe lies rather than the truth only shows the scripture true which states many deceive themselves, because they love darkness rather than light because their deed were evil. Once again your proving the scriptures true *John 3:16-19. Although I feel sorry for you, at least in our conversation you are proving God's Word true, for those who may be following.

For this I thank you :)
 
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ecco

Veteran Member
Not really. You were simply called out for promoting things Gods Word does not teach.
More self-serving male bovine feces. You flat out called me a liar. Have you forgotten that or are you ever so slightly backing off that false accusation?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I went to BibleHub KJV - Ctrl F rape 0 results.
I checked some of the other versions that you referenced - NIV. Indeed they do use the word "rape".

However, Gen 34 certainly doesn't condemn rape as angel3 would have us believe...
No it doesn't.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Respoded with...

3rdAngel said: There is no Hebrew equivallent word used for rape in the bible although some translations render "laying with her by force" as "rape" to the context of the scriptures. The english definition of rape is forced non consenual sex. Your denial of Gods Word is simply amazing. Hard to see when you close your eyes and put your hands over your ears.

For example your false claims are put to rest here...

Obviously you missed my post #316.

Below is copied from Post #316 with new emphases for you.


I went to BibleHub KJV - Ctrl F rape 0 results.
I checked some of the other versions that you referenced - NIV. Indeed they do use the word "rape".

However, Gen 34 certainly doesn't condemn rape as angel3 would have us believe...

24All the men who went out of the city gate agreed with Hamor and his son Shechem, and every male in the city was circumcised.

25Three days later, while all of them were still in pain, two of Jacob’s sons, Simeon and Levi, Dinah’s brothers, took their swords and attacked the unsuspecting city, killing every male. 26They put Hamor and his son Shechem to the sword and took Dinah from Shechem’s house and left. 27The sons of Jacob came upon the dead bodies and looted the city where their sister had been defiled. 28They seized their flocks and herds and donkeys and everything else of theirs in the city and out in the fields. 29They carried off all their wealth and all their women and children, taking as plunder everything in the houses.
One man raped one woman. In response, the woman's relatives slaughter an entire village of men and take, as plunder, all the women and children. The writers find it important to point out that they also took their donkeys.

All the women of the village, who were guilty of nothing, are taken as plunder (raped). All the children of the village, who were guilty of nothing, are taken as plunder (raped and worse).

Was God upset by any of this? Nope. He gave Jacob and his family advice to get out of town and worship Him...

35:1Then God said to Jacob, “Go up to Bethel and settle there, and build an altar there to God, who appeared to you...
And then God protected them by destroying more of the innocents...
35:5Then they set out, and the terror of God fell on the towns all around them so that no one pursued them.
Ya gotta love the morals of the Bible writers and their God. Ya also gotta love the morals of those, today, who would defend them.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
The bible show many accounts of the Evil deeds that men have done. There is no scripture in God's Word that condones rape.
Really? See post #332.

(excerpts from Post #332)...
They seized their flocks and herds and donkeys and everything else of theirs in the city and out in the fields. 29They carried off all their wealth and all their women and children, taking as plunder everything in the houses.​
One man raped one woman. In response, the woman's relatives slaughter an entire village of men and take, as plunder, all the women and children. The writers find it important to point out that they also took their donkeys.

All the women of the village, who were guilty of nothing, are taken as plunder (raped). All the children of the village, who were guilty of nothing, are taken as plunder (raped and worse).

Was God upset by any of this? Nope. He gave Jacob and his family advice to get out of town and worship Him...
35:1Then God said to Jacob, “Go up to Bethel and settle there, and build an altar there to God, who appeared to you...
And then God protected them by destroying more of the innocents...
35:5Then they set out, and the terror of God fell on the towns all around them so that no one pursued them.

Did you really say? "There is no scripture in God's Word that condones rape".

Tell me again about your superior knowledge of your Bible.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
More self-serving male bovine feces. You flat out called me a liar. Have you forgotten that or are you ever so slightly backing off that false accusation?

YawwwnZZz. Sorry did you say something? Let me know when you wish to respond to the content of the posts and scriptures shared with you that show why your in error. Until than I thank you and enjoy our conversations :)
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Obviously you missed my post #316.

Below is copied from Post #316 with new emphases for you.


I went to BibleHub KJV - Ctrl F rape 0 results.
I checked some of the other versions that you referenced - NIV. Indeed they do use the word "rape".

However, Gen 34 certainly doesn't condemn rape as angel3 would have us believe...

24All the men who went out of the city gate agreed with Hamor and his son Shechem, and every male in the city was circumcised.

25Three days later, while all of them were still in pain, two of Jacob’s sons, Simeon and Levi, Dinah’s brothers, took their swords and attacked the unsuspecting city, killing every male. 26They put Hamor and his son Shechem to the sword and took Dinah from Shechem’s house and left. 27The sons of Jacob came upon the dead bodies and looted the city where their sister had been defiled. 28They seized their flocks and herds and donkeys and everything else of theirs in the city and out in the fields. 29They carried off all their wealth and all their women and children, taking as plunder everything in the houses.
One man raped one woman. In response, the woman's relatives slaughter an entire village of men and take, as plunder, all the women and children. The writers find it important to point out that they also took their donkeys.

All the women of the village, who were guilty of nothing, are taken as plunder (raped). All the children of the village, who were guilty of nothing, are taken as plunder (raped and worse).

Was God upset by any of this? Nope. He gave Jacob and his family advice to get out of town and worship Him...

35:1Then God said to Jacob, “Go up to Bethel and settle there, and build an altar there to God, who appeared to you...
And then God protected them by destroying more of the innocents...
35:5Then they set out, and the terror of God fell on the towns all around them so that no one pursued them.
Ya gotta love the morals of the Bible writers and their God. Ya also gotta love the morals of those, today, who would defend them.

Not at all, Your posts have been responded to in detail proving that your claims are false ones. Your response was to simply ignore what was shared in love and as a help to you. If you disagree please address post # 329 linked. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear. Your only repeating yourself without addressing any of the posts that show why you are in error.

The bible show many accounts of the Evil deeds that men have done. There is no scripture in God's Word that condones rape as you falsely claim. This is simply a lie on your behalf because you do not understand the bible because you do not know God.

Now my friend, if you disagree please show me a scripture that says God supports rape?

If you cannot why are you pretending God's Word is saying things it never has? Why you would rather promote and believe lies rather than the truth only shows the scripture true which states many deceive themselves, because they love darkness rather than light because of evil deeds. Once again your proving the scriptures are true *John 3:16-19. Although I feel sorry for you, at least in our conversation you are proving God's Word true, for those who may be following.

For this I thank you :)
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
One man raped one woman. In response, the woman's relatives slaughter an entire village of men and take, as plunder, all the women and children. The writers find it important to point out that they also took their donkeys. All the women of the village, who were guilty of nothing, are taken as plunder (raped). All the children of the village, who were guilty of nothing, are taken as plunder (raped and worse).
I see, so where does it say in any of the scriptures you have provided that as you claim "all the woman of the villiage were taken as plunder and raped"?
Now are you telling the truth here my friend; and if that is not what the scripture say, why are you pretending that the woman of the villiage were raped when the bible says no such thing? Yep I enjoy discussing God's Word with you. I thank you for proving God's Word true :)
Did you really say? "There is no scripture in God's Word that condones rape".
Indeed. Now my friend, if you disagree please show me a scripture that says God supports and condones rape? All you have managed to do so far is to say things that the bible has never said and proved God's Word true.

Thank you I am enjoying our conversation :)
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Do you figuratively believe the earth is a sphere?

The word believe, means believe. Period.
Why does it matter what people believed 2000-4000 years ago? Of course, some people still believe it, but why does it matter why people believed/believe now?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
All I need to respond to that is to give a randomly selected example:

ALL glory be to this Day, the Day in which the fragrances of mercy have been wafted over all created things, a Day so blest that past ages and centuries can never hope to rival it, a Day in which the countenance of the Ancient of Days hath turned towards His holy seat. Thereupon the voices of all created things, and beyond them those of the Concourse on High, were heard calling aloud: “Haste thee, O Carmel, for lo, the light of the countenance of God, the Ruler of the Kingdom of Names and Fashioner of the heavens, hath been lifted upon thee.”

Seized with transports of joy, and raising high her voice, she thus exclaimed: “May my life be a sacrifice to Thee, inasmuch as Thou hast fixed Thy gaze upon me, hast bestowed upon me Thy bounty, and hast directed towards me Thy steps. Separation from Thee, O Thou Source of everlasting life, hath well nigh consumed me, and my remoteness from Thy presence hath burned away my soul.
Silly nonsense.

the voices of all created things... were heard calling aloud

Really? All created things have voices? All created things called aloud “Haste thee, O Carmel". Snakes called aloud “Haste thee, O Carmel"? Bunny rabbits called aloud “Haste thee, O Carmel"? Worms?
Thank you. Here is an example of a passage that is not to be interpreted literally.

But it is anything but silly nonsense IF you understand the implications of the passage.
It is as serious as the day is long in summer in Alaska.

Let’s focus on this: “a Day so blest that past ages and centuries can never hope to rival it, a Day in which the countenance of the Ancient of Days hath turned towards His holy seat.”

This is the Day of God, a day unrivaled in the whole history of mankind, would you but know it.

“It is evident that every age in which a Manifestation of God hath lived is divinely ordained, and may, in a sense, be characterized as God’s appointed Day. This Day, however, is unique, and is to be distinguished from those that have preceded it. The designation “Seal of the Prophets” fully revealeth its high station. The Prophetic Cycle hath, verily, ended. The Eternal Truth is now come. He hath lifted up the Ensign of Power, and is now shedding upon the world the unclouded splendor of His Revelation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 60

“In the Book of Isaiah it is written: “Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty.” No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day—the Day of God Himself. This same verse is followed by these words: “And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that Day.” This is the Day which the Pen of the Most High hath glorified in all the holy Scriptures.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 13


God is the Ancient of Days, but I cannot say I know what it means for the countenance of the Ancient of Days to turn towards His holy seat.... Maybe some Baha’is might have interpretations of that and no doubt those interpretations would differ, although any or all of them could be right.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I wasn't asking for proof. I know that is as impossible as proving god didn't create everything Lst Thursday.

However, you have absolutely nothing to show that Baluluah communicated with a God. NOTHING! Ditto for Muhammed, Charles Russel, Jesus, Shiva, Moses, Athena, Joseph Smith et al.
To show is to prove... If you know it is impossible, why do you keep asking me for proof?

Besides that, it was God who communicated with Baha’u’llah, not nice versa. Baha’u’llah might have talked back, I don’t really know.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

I'll just take the first one.

Mark 14:60And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? 61But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

First off, these are the words of the anonymous writer of Mark pretending he overhead a conversation between Jesus and "priests". There is no indication that anyone actually recorded this or any conversation.

Nevertheless, and for the sake of discussion, Jesus is talking about himself, not some distant Baluluah or Muhammed.
I agree with you on the first thing you said; there is no indication that anyone actually recorded this or any conversation.

I disagree with the second thing you said.
62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

The Son of man who CAME in the clouds of heaven was Baha’u’llah. That is why Jesus NEVER SAID“and ye shall see ME sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven” ....not in any NT verse. Of course, since you were too lazy to go and read those posts about the Son of Man in the clouds on my forum, you are not going to understand WHY it was Baha’u’llah..... So I assume this is just fun and games for you and you really do not care if Christ has returned. It’s never too late though. You can still go to my forum, and while you are there you can say hi to my one resident atheist. He is really lonely right now because he has nobody to talk to. :(
In any case, your Baluluah did not come in the clouds of heaven.
He sure as hell did come in the clouds of heaven, but they were not physical clouds. Baha’u’llah was the return of the Son of Man, the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth who came down from the heaven of the Will of God, just as Jesus promised He would, and Baha’u’llah did everything Jesus said the Comforter and Spirit of truth would do.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for hedwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

So, once again you, or another Bahai, post an ironclad prophecy that is not a fulfilled prophecy by any stretch of the imagination. FAIL.

I'll not bother to waste my time destroying the rest of your prophecies.
It was absolutely fulfilled, would you but know it. You waste your time on all kinds of nonsense but you cannot even spend a little time figuring out if Christ has returned... No matter, it is your loss, not mine. I already know.
 
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