So What Happened To All The Changes, Tribulations, And Woe Jesus Had Promised?

[3rdAngel]

Please show, specifically, what scripture I took out of context.

You have been shown specifically all through our conversation section by section of your posts and scripture by scripture but you do not believe because you do not know God's Word because you do not know God. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.

 

[3rdAngel]

Do you not understand the word "troubled"?

You do not hear because you do not understand. The Angel blessed Mary and comforted her so she was no longer frightened in order to hear God's Word and believe it. You denying God's Word does not make it dissappear *Luke 1:30-38. (another example of you not applying context)

Your welcome

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑

• thou shalt conceive in thy womb - This was an edict, not a request

WRONG!

This was a blessing from God among all women. v28 Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women; v30 Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. Context matters and here you are taking scripture out of context again

Your response...

Apologetics nonsense. "Thou Shalt" is a command. "Thou Shalt" coming from an Angel is an edict, not a request. "Thou Shalt" coming from an Angel who is a messenger from God is a command, not a request. It is a command just as when a 30-year-old rapist tells a ten-year-old girl "You Will Spread Your Legs"!

Now how does what you have posted here address to what you are quoting from? Yep it doesn't and it is simply a distraction. Thankyou though as it is another good example of you taking scripture out of context trying to put an interpretation to it that it is not saying.

Your welcome

 

[3rdAngel]

The young girls who were under the thumb of Jeffery Epstein also hoped Jeffery Epstein would look after them. Every prostitute that has a pimp believes he will take care of them. Power is everything. Godly power is overwhelming, especially to a young female.
You are a follower of God. If "an angel" approached your daughter and said 'come with me, there is a powerful entity that wants to impregnate you', would you let her go?

These are your words that have no truth in them said by someone that does not know God's Word because they do not know God.

 

[3rdAngel]

I didn't add anything to the scriptures. I quoted them from BibleHub. If you cannot see that a child was overwhelmed by a very powerful entity, that is your choice. If you do not understand that rape is an act of a powerful person over a defenseless person, that is your choice. That shows that you are OK with what people like Harvey Weinstein and Jeffery Epstein do.
Where does the shame belong?

It was not the scriptures quoted that was the problem. It was the interpretation you were trying to add to them that was the problem as shown by the scriptures to you but you do not believe God's Word because you do not understand it because you do not know God. Now let me ask you if the scriptures teach that spiritual things can only be understood by someone that is spiritual and you are not can you understand what the scriptures teach? Your a good example of the truth of God's Word.

Thank you for proving God's Word is true

 

[3rdAngel]

I know what rape is and I don't excuse it. The only saving grace here is that the entire story is just that, a story. No one named Mary was actually raped and impregnated. However, the story is very reflective of the mindset of the misogynistic men who wrote the stories. It is also reflective of the mindset of those who would try to justify it.

Already answered your only repeating yourself because you do not believe God's Word. I must thankyou though. This is another good example of you ignoring context and scripture because you do not know God's Word because you do not know God.

Luke 1:38 [38], And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to your word. And the angel departed from her.

Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.

Your welcome

 

[ecco]

Give me one good reason that makes logical sense why I should not pick and choose what to believe about the other religious beliefs.

"Other religious beliefs"? I was under the impression that there was only one true religion and that that one true religion had many Messengers. I was under the impression that Moses and Muhammed and Jesus were just three of those Messengers. If that is the case, how can you refer to the scripture of the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims as "Other Religions".

I disregard some of what is in the older religious because it has been corrupted by man over time. I do not denigrate any religion.

How can you say that Muhammed's writings have been corrupted over time? Give some examples.

How can you say that Moses' writings have been corrupted over time? Give some examples.

I believe the Baha’i Faith is the current religion of God and thus it is the religion God wants everyone to turn to since the older religions have for the most part been corrupted.

Sure. Other religions have become corrupted. Bahai has not become corrupted. More realistically, other religions were corrupted from the beginning. More realistically, Bahai was corrupted from the beginning.
After all, it was started by The Bab. Yet you all put your faith in the writings of Ballulah.

 

[ecco]

Another straw man. I am getting tired of this repetitive misrepresentation of my position.

I do not believe that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God because Baha’u’llah said he was the Messenger from God. I believe Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God because of the evidence that supports His claim.

And yet neither you nor any Bahai has been able to present anything that would pass for evidence.

Baha’u’llah's character? Based on what and whose interpretations?
Baha’u’llah's prophecies? None that could hold an ounce of water.

 

[ecco]

They are precise even though the men were fallible. That is not contradictory.

Do you really understand what you write?

I am not confused at all.

It may seem that way to you. To the rest of us...

You would not have to do that because William Sears already did it when he matched up the prophecies with the events and geographical locations and it is in his book.

Then it should be easy for any Bahai to take one clear cut example and post it in this forum. I'll continue to wait.

Do you really think I care what you do? I was just explaining where the information can be found, IF anyone is interested in knowing how those prophecies were fulfilled.

If you have information, show it. Don't imply that I need to buy a book.

Posting walls of the alleged writings of infallible Ballulah and fallible Shogi Effendi is a waste.

 

[ecco]

It was not the scriptures quoted that was the problem. It was the interpretation you were trying to add to them that was the problem as shown by the scriptures to you but you do not believe God's Word because you do not understand it because you do not know God.

Let's see.
How should I interpret "thou shalt conceive in thy womb"? Hmm.
Maybe it means "I can have a child when I want to and I can choose the father". No. That doesn't seem correct.

Maybe it means 1/3 God is going to impregnate you. Yeah. That seems much more accurate.


How should I interpret "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee"? Hmm.
Maybe it means "I can have a child when I want to and I can choose the father". No. That doesn't seem correct.

Maybe it means 1/3 God is going to impregnate you. Yeah. That seems much more accurate.

 

[ecco]

Now let me ask you if the scriptures teach that spiritual things can only be understood by someone that is spiritual and you are not can you understand what the scriptures teach?

Ah. The old copout: If you are not a (fill in the blank), you cannot understand (fill in the blank).

What you are saying is that no one can learn to become spiritual if someone is not spiritual.

So, if you are spiritual it is because you were indoctrinated into spiritualism before you could think rationally. I can accept that.

Thank you for proving God's Word is true

Thank you for providing more evidence for the concept that very religious people were deeply indoctrinated from an early age.

 

[ecco]

Already answered your only repeating yourself because you do not believe God's Word. I must thankyou though. This is another good example of you ignoring context and scripture because you do not know God's Word because you do not know God.

Luke 1:38 [38], And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to your word. And the angel departed from her.

Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.

Your welcome

See post #231

 

[3rdAngel]

Ah. The old copout: If you are not a (fill in the blank), you cannot understand (fill in the blank). What you are saying is that no one can learn to become spiritual if someone is not spiritual. So, if you are spiritual it is because you were indoctrinated into spiritualism before you could think rationally. I can accept that.

There is no copout. This is all on your side as is evidenced by you not replying to the scriptures posted and sent in love as a help to you. You have been provided God's Word that shows why your interpretation of it is in error and you disagree with it because you do not know God's Word. You are free to believe as you wish. I will leave that between you and God to work through. Thank you for once again demonstrating that you do not know God's Word because you do not know God and have proven God's Word to be true. I am enjoying our conversation because I believe it only proves Gods Word to be true

 

[3rdAngel]

Let's see.
How should I interpret "thou shalt conceive in thy womb"? Hmm.
Maybe it means "I can have a child when I want to and I can choose the father". No. That doesn't seem correct.

Maybe it means 1/3 God is going to impregnate you. Yeah. That seems much more accurate.


How should I interpret "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee"? Hmm.
Maybe it means "I can have a child when I want to and I can choose the father". No. That doesn't seem correct.

Maybe it means 1/3 God is going to impregnate you. Yeah. That seems much more accurate.

This post is only you making things up again in order to ignore and avoid the posts and scriptures provided that show you why you are in error. That is the problem. Your post here only shows your not interested in having an intelligent discussion which is ok you do not need to if you do not want to, it is up to you. It is your false interprestation of the scriptures, trying to claim that God's raped Mary that is in error and is not what the scriptures say and you know it. You have only demonstrated here that you do not know God's Word because you do not know God and have proven God's Word to be true. For that though, I thank you.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ Already answered your only repeating yourself because you do not believe God's Word. I must thankyou though. This is another good example of you ignoring context and scripture because you do not know God's Word because you do not know God.

Luke 1:38 [38], And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to your word. And the angel departed from her.

Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.

Your welcome

Your response..

See post #231

Post # 231 does not address anything in the post you are quoting from. It only shows your the one doing the copouts

Yep really enjoy our chats

 

[Trailblazer]

Just how do you interpret God punishing Adam & Eve for the fruit incident?
How is that not indicative of sin? And since it was the first incident of sin, it is original sin.

I do not believe that God punished Adam & Eve for the fruit incident. I believe that was an allegorical story, not a true story. One interpretation of the story is explained in this chapter: 30: ADAM AND EVE

“We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvelous explanations. Only those who are initiated into mysteries, and those who are near the Court of the All-Powerful, are aware of these secrets. Hence these verses of the Bible have numerous meanings.”

You can read the chapter if you want to know some of those meanings.

Besides, it isn't about Jews and Muslims and Christians. It is about a book that, I thought, Bahais treated as holy scripture. If Bahais don't consider it holy scripture, why do you bother interpreting it at all? Why even bother commenting on it?

I never said that I do not consider it Holy Scripture. I only said I do not interpret it literally. All of the Bible was not intended to be interpreted literally.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ridiculous. Are you now alleging that Muhamed did not write down the Koran in his own pen? Are you now alleging Moses did not write down Genesis?

Muhammad was illiterate so He could not write. There is no evidence that Moses wrote Genesis in His own pen, none at all.
Even the Jews do not claim that Moses wrote Genesis.

Maybe you, and the other Bahais in this forum, need to write down exactly what is "truth" and what is not.

How can you say Jesus was infallible if you know nothing about him other than what some very fallible people allegedly wrote about him? How do you justify any belief that Jesus even existed at all?

Baha’is just have our beliefs that “we believe” are true.

I know Jesus existed because Baha’u’llah wrote about Jesus. I know Jesus was infallible because He was a Manifestation of God.

 

[Trailblazer]

"Other religious beliefs"? I was under the impression that there was only one true religion and that that one true religion had many Messengers. I was under the impression that Moses and Muhammed and Jesus were just three of those Messengers. If that is the case, how can you refer to the scripture of the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims as "Other Religions".

When I refer to “other religious beliefs” I am referring to what other religious people believe, not what Baha’is believe. It is the Baha’i belief that religion is One, a process that unfolds over time, revealed by various Messengers in different ages, but other religions to not accept that belief as valid.

How can you say that Muhammed's writings have been corrupted over time? Give some examples.

I did not say the Qur’an was corrupted. It is the religion of Islam that has been corrupted by men who messed it up.

How can you say that Moses' writings have been corrupted over time? Give some examples.

Same deal as the Qur’an. The Christians and Jews have misinterpreted the scriptures and created false beliefs and doctrines from what they interpreted. That is why both of them have false beliefs about who the Messiah will be.

Sure. Other religions have become corrupted. Bahai has not become corrupted. More realistically, other religions were corrupted from the beginning. More realistically, Bahai was corrupted from the beginning.

I do not know what you mean by corrupted. None of the religions were corrupted at their beginning. That happened over a long period of time.

All religions go through stages which can be likened to seasons of the year. The first stage is spring... That can be likened to a spiritual springtime which begins after a religion is originally revealed by God to a Messenger. God is real to man and it is a living Faith. As time goes on religion goes into its summer season, the peak of its influence; but then it goes into a season of late summer and early fall. During these seasons, theology takes over and there is an intellectual acceptance rather than an inner conviction of God’s truth. Finally, religion goes into a late fall and winter season in which material power becomes the determining factor, and faith in God does not dominate any longer. Only the outward form of the religion remains because the original spirit is gone. People are believers in name only. Religion falls behind the times and it cannot understand nor interpret what is happening in the present world. This is where the older religions such as Judaism and Christianity are at today, in the winter season.

The Baha’i Faith is new so it is in its spring season. Baha’is who are involved are passionate about their Faith just as in the early days of Christianity. But of course it does not have much influence yet, it is much too new, as it takes a long time to establish a religion and gain many adherents. I believe that will change over time, but it will take a long time, particularly because most religious people are attached to their older religions, thus not even open to looking at a new religion, let alone investigating it seriously.

After all, it was started by The Bab. Yet you all put your faith in the writings of Ballulah.

The Baha’i Faith was not started by the Bab. The Babi Faith was started by the Bab and the Baha’i Faith was started by Baha’u’llah. The two religions are linked because the Bab’s primary mission was to announce the coming of Baha’u’llah.

 

[Trailblazer]

And yet neither you nor any Bahai has been able to present anything that would pass for evidence.

Baha’u’llah's character? Based on what and whose interpretations?
Baha’u’llah's prophecies? None that could hold an ounce of water.

Sorry, I am not going around that block again. That goes nowhere.

What is evidence to one person is not evidence to another.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: You would not have to do that because William Sears already did it when he matched up the prophecies with the events and geographical locations and it is in his book.

Then it should be easy for any Bahai to take one clear cut example and post it in this forum. I'll continue to wait.

Here is one clear cut example of a prophecy that was fulfilled geographically that was cited in the book.

Micah 7:12 “In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.”

He shall come from Assyria: At that time Assyria was a large area. Baha’u’llah and His family lived in the part that was Persia, now Iran, in the city of Tihran.

and from the fortified cities: Baha’u’llah was banished from city to city: After being released from the Black Pit dungeon in Tihran in 1852, His family and companions had only a short time before being sent to the fortified city of Baghdad. While living in Baghdad, He gained such a large following that the enemies where shocked. Right away He was banished again, this time to the fortified city of Istanbul.

The Governor of the city refused many times to fulfill the orders that he received to banish Him again. Finally forced to follow orders, Baha’u’llah was banished again to the fortified city of Adrianople. He was honored and praised, and shown respect everywhere, until He was finally sent to the most horrific of all places, the fortress of Akka, where it was expected that He would succumb to the terrible conditions.

and from the fortress even to the river: It was while in Baghdad that the Tigris river became a special place, as Baha’u’llah crossed it to the Ridvan Garden. April 21, 1863 was the fulfilment of prophecy, as that was when Baha’u’llah declared to those around Him His Station as the Manifestation of God.

and from sea to sea: After His banishment in Baghdad, His exile was by way of the Black Sea. Still a prisoner He crossed the Black Sea from Sinope on His way to Constantinople. After the banishment in Adrianople, He crossed the Mediterranean Sea from Gallipolis in Turkey, embarking at Alexandria, Egypt, then on to the fortress of 'Akka, the most desolate of cities.

and from mountain to mountain: The time in Baghdad was turbulent with opposition. To protect His family and companions Baha’u’llah went to the Kurdistan mountains. There He lived in poverty, but the area was magnetized by His presence. After two years, He was persuaded to return to Baghdad.

The other mountain was in Israel, Mount Carmel, where He had docked before His final journey to Akka. Later He had a chance to return to Mount Carmel, to pitch His tent. Here He wrote the Tablet Of Carmel, surrounded by pilgrims looking for the return of Christ to descend from heaven. Mount Carmel is the headquarters of the Baha’i Faith. What we see there now is the fulfillment of the following prophecies:

Isaiah 35:1-2 “The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.”

Micah 7:14 “Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel.”

Trailblazer said: Do you really think I care what you do? I was just explaining where the information can be found, IF anyone is interested in knowing how those prophecies were fulfilled.

If you have information, show it. Don't imply that I need to buy a book.

No, you would not need to buy the book because it is online to read for free. Obviously, I cannot post the whole book here.