So what’s so great about a Christian heaven?

[Muffled]

Heaven is just a made up place for those who are afraid of death. As to what it is, take your pick of myths.

Your proof for this is?

Jesus says that He came down from Heaven. He also says that He is the truth.

 

[Godslove]

s2a, I understand what you are saying, and noticeI said some. I guess my best example would be a person what is constantly being told that the life style he is living will send him to hell. (I disagree with telling anybody that. It's not their call, it's Gods' call) So instead of changing, they refuse to believe in Heaven or Hell. But I also still think it's easier not to believe then believe. Most Christians, somewhere in the back of their mind are wondering if the lives they are leading is good enough to get you to Heaven. I'm 51% Christian and 49% Truck Driver. Don't take much for the trucker to come out in me. The occasional cursing a stupid driver, or glancing over at the car next to me to find a naked lady smiling at me thinking "I really shouldn't be looking at this........I really need to watch the road.......WOW, BABY!.....Jeff, your married, QUIT!...." And finally look away but wondering if this will cost me?

God has stated that if man could have a glimpse of heaven that they would take there lives in an instant, so one need to understand that heaven means what it sounds like HEAVEN a place of PEACE a place of LOVE a place of UNITY of ONE HEART and ONE MIND Amen.

 

[crystalonyx]

The simple answer is that logically there can be no afterlife. It is a silly promise made to entice people into becoming believers in some religion using the carrot approach. Usually combined with the stick(hell) approach for maximum effect.

 

[crystalonyx]

God has stated that if man could have a glimpse of heaven that they would take there lives in an instant, so one need to understand that heaven means what it sounds like HEAVEN a place of PEACE a place of LOVE a place of UNITY of ONE HEART and ONE MIND Amen.

We heard you the first time.

 

[DeepShadow]

The simple answer is that logically there can be no afterlife.

Logically? So you can draw this conclusion from a logical algorithm?

Please, demonstrate.

 

[s2a]

God has stated that if man could have a glimpse of heaven that they would take there lives in an instant, so one need to understand that heaven means what it sounds like HEAVEN a place of PEACE a place of LOVE a place of UNITY of ONE HEART and ONE MIND Amen.

Source please? Where does your God emphatically state these claims? Is there any critical rebuttal permitted in evaluation of these claims? Is human knowledge/understanding dangerous to your God, or only dangerous to mankind? If your God seeks to prevent suicide amongst humans (ie., by the very knowledge of a detailed and specified "Heaven")...then why does He allow/permit/deem that humans might kill themselves over many lesser instances of ignorance/grief/despair?

It would seem that "man" is more than willing to commit suicide for less compelling "truths" than a clear "glimpse" of heaven alone...

...so sparing "man" the hope of some eternal paradise by keeping the "details" vague or secret doesn't present a particularly compelling argument against suicide or wished-for death...

Your "mitigation" is akin to the argument of the con-men/conjurers/magicians of this existence...

..."I could tell you...but the knowledge would therefore ruin the illusion..."

Trust me to decide for myself...for my intellect and capacities of evaluation are all that keep me from believing in any alleged/claimed "Heaven"...

...and no...I'm in no hurry to off myself...not (at least) until I get bored of human discovery, invention, and exploration of the unknown.

Maybe...just maybe...the notion of living in the same house, with the same landlord, with the same view, for tens of trillions of years...isn't really that intriguing or inspiring of a proposition to long ponder as a desirable outcome...

Again...consider...most discriminating folks would not buy a dishwasher, or a new car (temporary items at best) without investing at least some sort of comparative "shopping"; much less giving up everything they have or value most to purchase and occupy some property "sight unseen" from some "realtor" that they've never seen or met in person...who swears that it's "an opportunity of a lifetime"...and a guaranteed investment of enduring love for the ages..."Really! Trust me! You should...my card says I'm the most trustworhy realtor in the World!".

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

In the Baha'i view (as well as that of some Christians, Heaven is the condition of spiritual nearness to God (not a place); hell is likewise spiritual remoteness from God.

So its desireability and attractiveness should be fairly obvious to a thinking person. . . .

Best regards,

Bruce

 

[Azakel]

The simple answer is that logically there can be no afterlife. It is a silly promise made to entice people into becoming believers in some religion using the carrot approach. Usually combined with the stick(hell) approach for maximum effect.

Really, even though a belief in the afterlife was around well before any religion used the idea of it to make people follow along with a carrot or hell for that matter. I think you should look in to religions other then Christianity, they have a belief in an afterlife but no concept of hell.

 

[belever]

So what does the Bible say about heaven that makes it so cool (relatively and metaphorically speaking) and desirable?

[*Note - some text below compliments of Easton’s Bible Dictionary.]

Jesus called heaven “paradise” (Luke 23:43) - references to tropical islands were not alluded; and His “Father’s House” (John 14:2), with no shame at the thought of still living with your Dad at 33 years old. Peter said that heaven is an “eternal kingdom” (2 Peter 1:11) and “eternal inheritance” (1 Peter 1:4), while the book of Hebrews says that heaven is “a better country” with a “prepared city” (Hebrews 11:14,16).
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
For me as a christian heaven is not place to leve,i do hope that great things wiil happen on earth Psalms 37:29.However i do appriciate your good knowlege of bible.I coudnt understand your translation of Hebrews 11:14,16.When i read these verses,i understand that “a better country”and “prepared city”actualy belongs to heaven.You sayng that these thihgs actualy is the haven.Let's have a look ons more:
14 For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that [place] from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them.

 

[s2a]

Forcible bump

Clearing the cobwebs for new insight and input

 

[Katzpur]

Forcible bump

Clearing the cobwebs for new insight and input

Holy Cow. Look who's back.

 

[s2a]

Holy Cow. Look who's back.

No need to alert the major media outlets

Hello Katzpur... how nice to be recognized

 

[connermt]

Heaven is made good/great by the theory of Hell. If Hell's as bad as it's supposed to be, anything would be Heaven in comparison.
Many christians say Heaven's so great because you spend eternity praising god or similar none-sense.
Others see it as a constant family reunion of sorts.
What's truly great about Heaven (and all things christian) is that there is absolutley no proof to back up their claims! You can make up any half-baked idea, find a word in the bible to justify it, and POOF :beach: - you have christian "proof".

 

[ShareTheWord]

I've put my faith in God, the creator that worked out all the nuances of the universe and created them on his command.

I have no problem believing that if he assures me something is good, that he has the power to make it good, whether I can understand and appreciate it now or not.

 

[s2a]

I've put my faith in God, the creator that worked out all the nuances of the universe and created them on his command.

I have no problem believing that if he assures me something is good, that he has the power to make it good, whether I can understand and appreciate it now or not.

I appreciate you efforting a reply, as I invited one..., but to be fair...you did not actually address the inquiry/foundation put forward in the OP. You merely offered a testament of personal piety and self-convivction...which is pleasant, but not especially illuminating, or interesting.

I invite you to read my OP, then reflectively respond again

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Those six winged Seraph beings singing for an eternity "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come" while they are on fire and burning the whole time at the foot of the Lord does not sound all that appealing to me. So what if Heaven is not all that it is cracked up to be and is worse than Hell? "Tisk tisk", says the Lord now you are stuck up here for an eternity and suffering as much as my obedient Seraphim.

 

[s2a]

I think the winged Seraph may be on Spring break atm... care to address the OP or just remain strangely obtuse beyond reason?

 

[s2a]

itty bity bump... just as hopeful invite beyond vapid cranks and one-liner respondents...

 

[sojourner]

No, really.

My local travel agent just can't seem to procure even one nice color brochure with pictures and locale descriptions of Heaven.

The Bible uses the term “heaven” to mean different things, dependent upon it’s use in context. “Heaven and Earth” is meant to imply the whole universe. For Jews, the “heavens” either represent the sky, the stars, or the place where God lives. Spiritually speaking, “heaven” is the “place of the everlasting blessedness of the righteous; the abode of departed spirits”. In theory, “heaven” is the place where good Christians go to hang out for eternity. The unsaved must work as cashiers at K-Mart, or burn in hellfire and brimstone for lots and lots of trillions of years (with no cable).

So what does the Bible say about heaven that makes it so cool (relatively and metaphorically speaking) and desirable?

[*Note - some text below compliments of Easton’s Bible Dictionary.]

Jesus called heaven “paradise” (Luke 23:43) - references to tropical islands were not alluded; and His “Father’s House” (John 14:2), with no shame at the thought of still living with your Dad at 33 years old. Peter said that heaven is an “eternal kingdom” (2 Peter 1:11) and “eternal inheritance” (1 Peter 1:4), while the book of Hebrews says that heaven is “a better country” with a “prepared city” (Hebrews 11:14,16).

Nice descriptors all, but kinda vague, dont’cha think? We all wanna know what we get for being good, right? What’s the payoff?

Details are few, but the blessed are said to "sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob," and to be "in Abraham's bosom" (Luke 16:22; Matthew 8:11); to "reign with Christ" (2 Timothy 2:12); and to enjoy "rest" (Hebrews 4:10,11).

In heaven the blessedness of the righteous consists in the possession of "life everlasting," "an eternal weight of glory" (2 Corinthians 4:17), an exemption from all sufferings forever, a deliverance from all evils (2 Corinthians 5:1,2) and from the society of the wicked (2 Timothy 4:18), bliss without termination, the "fulness of joy" for ever (Luke 20:36; 1 Peter 1:4; 5:10; 1 John 3:2). The believer's heaven is not only a state of everlasting blessedness, but also a "place", a place "prepared" for them (John 14:2). Not bad I guess, especially if you toss in the flowing milk and honey, and streets paved with gold.

So let’s see.
Live forever. Check.
No suffering forever. Check.
No evil. Check.
Constant and eternal bliss. Check.
Always happy. Check.

I suppose that’s all believer’s need to know.
As an unbeliever, I request enhancement and detail (that travel brochure), if you please.

Foremost, what does one do...forever? I’m sure Abraham’s bosom is nice and all, but a billion years of that would get a tad tiresome. Beyond being happy to worship and praise the Almighty for trillions of years without end, what kind of job is there to do?
One would think that God had all the maintenance and upkeep of heaven handled. I assume there’s nothing to buy or sell in heaven; no need for schools (what else does an immortal need to learn?), no hospitals (no pain, illness, or injury), no firehouses (Hell might have an opening or two, I suppose), no police stations (no evil, right?); no department stores (who needs clothes, shoes, or sunglasses?). There’s certainly no mention of recreational activities of any kind (No football on weekends? Are there weekends?); no restaurants (milk and honey excepted, is there any need of even consuming food when you’re immortal?); no movie theaters; no churches; no cars; no government; and presumably, no pets allowed.

Is the one occupation to be sitting around and shooting the breeze about how happy and joyous everyone is...forever?

And what about the interpersonal things?

Assuming a previous ex-wife makes it to heaven along with your current wife, does (or must) everyone share the same house and makeup? What about your ex's hubby/boyfriend?

If you ascend to heaven unmarried, are you allowed to date? Since procreation is no longer an issue, is sex allowed (at least the Muslims have that few dozen vestal virgins thing going for them)? Are cigars permitted? Is XO cognac flowing from some endless source (screw that milk and honey for my money)? Can I get french fries with that Big Mac now that I can’t get fat or die of heart disease (again)? Do ugly people stay ugly in heaven, or do they get a holy "extreme makeover" first? Do babies stay babies, endlessly crying (and doing you know what else), or do they get a “base age” of say, 25, to live out eternity? Does anyone really want to be changing baby diapers for the next trillion years or so?

What about entertainment? Again...no movies. No TV. No Nintendo. No magazines. No newspapers (no news). No competitive sports. All winners. No losers.

Joy. Joy. Joy.

No agony of defeat - ever (woo hoo!). How about art? Music? Are actors, painters, sculptors, songwriters, singers, musicians even necessary? What do you get to act, paint, sculpt, write lyrics, sing, or perform about besides the Great One Himself? Kinda tough crowd for Blues artists and country music songwriters when everyone is eternally happy.

Where does one GO? Is there a nice beach? Any mountains to climb? How about a pleasant sunlit meadow at the end of a trail through dense woods? Maybe there’s a scenic overlook of Hell somewhere, where you can spit on the poor heretics that didn’t make it (naw, that would be evil, and there ain’t no evil in heaven). Perhaps a diety-provided museum of former "Earthly Pains and Pleasures" (“C’mon hon, today let’s go to the museum for the 75,895,452,756th time and joyously partake of the exhibits again!”).

What is IN your house that is so kindly prepared for you? There’s almost certainly no need for a kitchen or dining room; or a bathroom (do immortal souls really need to shave, shower, or pee?); or a bedroom (surely immortals don’t need sleep or sex without procreation); or a den (no TV, no computer - you can always "Google" God, right?); or closets (who needs clothes, and even if you did, would they ever get dirty or sweaty?); or an attic/basement (what are you going to store - you have everything you already need?); no need of furniture (in a land without fatigue, pain, or suffering, chairs with lumbar support are unnecessary); no lighting fixtures (Hey, it’s heaven...complete with eternal divine light!); no need of tables, rugs, bookshelves; no appliances needed; no central heat/ac; no stereo (no iPod?). Maybe the empty house comes with a nice porch to joyously stand and watch all the other eternally joyous passersby, being their eternally joyous, happy, smiling selves...

“Howya doin'?”.
“I couldn’t be happier!”.
“I know! Me too!”.

So, believers get a one room, one floor doorless house to “live” in, in which there is really nothing to do. And maybe a porch. Who can top that?

Let me see if I get this heaven deal now...

I get eternal life in a place with no pain or sorrow.
I get to be happy all the time, for trillions of years, nonstop.
I get a house with no purpose to live in...forever.
Beyond constantly and for all eternity praising the Almighty for His generosity and compassion in providing these fabulous heavenly digs, my eternal existence serves no purpose.
I don’t need a job.
I don’t need to eat or sleep.
I don’t need to strive for anything.
I don’t need to learn anything.
I don’t need to know anything.
I don’t need to solve anything.
I don’t need to aspire to anything.
I don’t need to create (or repair) anything.
There’s no where else I need to be, even if I wanted to go there.
I don’t need to protect anyone, for there is no evil.
I don’t need to cheer or support anyone (excepting God Himself, of course), for everyone is eternally filled with joy.
I don’t need to mend anyone, for all are impervious to pain, injury, or sorrow.
I may get to spend eternity with my loved ones, but am I permitted to love them more than anyone else - and if so, what forms of expressed affection are OK with God (if you think going without sex for six months is an eternity - try a billion years on for size and see how it suits you)?

Never again a dull moment in heaven. Joy, joy, joy. Never a need for the simple pleasures of tilling a garden, singing along to favorite Eagles song, watching a sunset over the sea, playing fetch with your dog, or preparing a special breakfast-in-bed for your spouse. No plumbing to fix, no shingles to replace, no lawn to mow. Joy, joy, joy.

No heroes. No villains.

Perfection forever.

FOREVER.

And then some....

Heaven as paradise? Sounds like Hell to me.

Excuse me while I pour myself a nice hefty snifter-full of cognac, fire up a decent cigar, sit back in my comfy chair, and watch a TiVo’d Bill Maher on my wide-screen TV in rich Dolby Surround.

While I still can...

Do you not have a right hand and a bathroom for your entertainment?

 

[s2a]

Do you not have a right hand and a bathroom for your entertainment?

Should not the compelling breadth and depth of Twitter serve you best? The ideal of invitation forums is to encourage a tad more than than empty innuendo and ugly allusions in thoughtful and informed discourse...

But if you like, I have a few withering bathroom humor jokes you might appreciate that involve human body parts and behaviors too... if that's where your sensibilities reside above any further contemplative elevation..

So, what do we call a expert guy that knows what best to put upon the hook to catch elusive fish?
A "Master-baiter"?

*rimshot*

What shall we look to as your next cast upon the fertile waters?

Penis jokes? Can't wait....