So This Is Christmas

[PruePhillip]

I would be interested in seeing the specific scripture that states that "God's people should not be like the nations around you." If it's cover to cover, it should be quite easy to find. Would you mind sharing?

Easy to find, spoilt for choices
"They will treat you with hatred, take all for which you have worked, and leave you naked
and bare, so that the shame of your prostitution will be exposed. Your indecency and
promiscuity have brought these things upon you, because you have prostituted yourself
with the nations and defiled yourself with their idols. Because you have followed the path
of your sister, I will put her cup into your hand.."
Ezekiel

One of the major themes of the bible is that you separate yourself from the nations.
Abraham wanted Isaac to marry into his own kin, and not like Esau who married
the Canaanite - a grief of mind to his parents.
And Moses and Joshua sought to separate his people from the pagans and Canaanites
and Egyptians.
And Ezra condemned the mixed marriages.
And no Gentile could enter the higher temple.
etc..

 

[SalixIncendium]

Easy to find, spoilt for choices
"They will treat you with hatred, take all for which you have worked, and leave you naked
and bare, so that the shame of your prostitution will be exposed. Your indecency and
promiscuity have brought these things upon you, because you have prostituted yourself
with the nations and defiled yourself with their idols. Because you have followed the path
of your sister, I will put her cup into your hand.."
Ezekiel

One of the major themes of the bible is that you separate yourself from the nations.
Abraham wanted Isaac to marry into his own kin, and not like Esau who married
the Canaanite - a grief of mind to his parents.
And Moses and Joshua sought to separate his people from the pagans and Canaanites
and Egyptians.
And Ezra condemned the mixed marriages.
And no Gentile could enter the higher temple.
etc..

So what you're getting at is that the Bible is pro-segregation?

 

[Windwalker]

So what you're getting at is that the Bible is pro-segregation?

I have found fundamentalists tend to gravitate to the OT rules, and ignore the teachings of the NT where you find the opposite of this "Us versus Them" attitude. "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus," is ignored, and instead quotes from Old Testament prophets are used.

Theirs is the god of fear, not the "God is Love" Realization of Jesus Christ. In other words, they are not really followers of Jesus yet. "Love your neighbor as yourself," is not recognized as loving those who are different than you. The love they are only able to recognize applies only to those who make you personally comfortable, those who conform to your own beliefs and values, which is not quite large enough yet to be the Love that Jesus taught which embraces everyone equally.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

When you are willing to consider the thoughts of others, I'll tell you. So far, you're not very convincing.


And if you fail? Then what? Tell me how secure you really are, not just what you want others to believe.

Sorry but it is not worth my time. Good luck.

 

[Windwalker]

0

Sorry but it is not worth my time. Good luck.

As I said, your mind is closed. When our mind is closed, so is our heart. Luck has nothing to do with that.

 

[Baladas]

I would venture a guess that there are those who don't identify with Christianity that celebrate Christmas...that there are those that even call it Christmas.

Are you a non-Christian that celebrates Christmas? If so, define your worldview and tell us why you celebrate it.

For me, Christmas is a celebration of family, friendship, and love. It's also right near the solstice, which I mark because I enjoy observing the shifting seasons. I call it "Christmas" because it makes communicating easier and I see little reason not to.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I would venture a guess that there are those who don't identify with Christianity that celebrate Christmas...that there are those that even call it Christmas.

Are you a non-Christian that celebrates Christmas? If so, define your worldview and tell us why you celebrate it.

I celebrate it, call it Christmas, and my daughters even give out Christmas cards with frigging angels on them...not that I'd ever buy those cards, but whatever.
Our tree has a star on top. They sing Christmas carols at school (many of which are secular anyway, but not all, but any means).

My family and my wife's family are both Christian (if loosely so). Whilst it amuses me that they don't have too much understanding of their own religion, at the same time, Christmas is a great way to bring the family together. And the kids are growing up in a Christian society (if loosely so...lol). Whilst I'm all for them bucking the populist trend at times, we all enjoy Christmas, so just go with no harm no foul, basically.

There are a couple of kids in my daughters class who don't celebrate Christmas (one an SDA and one a Hindu). I feel slightly sorry for those kids at this time of year, not because they aren't Christian (obviously) but because they weren't to join in the what are mostly fun activities, even when very young. We have tried to take the opposite approach, including taking my daughters to Diwali celebrations this year. Fair to say the little white kids stood out a bit, but it was interesting for them I think. I don't think it magically infected them with 'Hindu'.

Ultimately, in terms of worldview, I'm an atheist trying as hard as I can to give my girls the option to go in whatever path they wish, whilst at the same time being honest and transparent with what I think (particularly now they are mature enough and initiate such conversations). It's never possible to know for sure what the best path is, but that is our intent.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Yeah, but pagans celebrate everything all the time in every way. If there was NO overlap, we'd be reduced to celebrating only on February 6 and August 19 by baking bread that had our toenail clippings in it and carving carrots into life-sized replicas of the human spleen.

I don't think your idea for a festival is going to take off.
You need to sex it up a little.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Oh, and @ADigitalArtist ?
You mentioned 'Passing of long nights, scarcity from the garden and being isolated from the community by increased illness and bleak weather.'

You must be confused. Christmas is long hours of sunshine, plenty of time in the pool, and a requirement for tasty drinks on hand to quench ones thirst while dealing with all the random people who drop in to say 'Merry Christmas...wow, the pool looks good. Erm, I have a towel in the car, do you mind if I stay?'

 

[sojourner]

Of course this is not the REAL Christmas but it is the way most people today celebrate it. It is fine to celebrate Jesus birth but we are not to do it in the same way that heathens celebrate.

I was unaware that heathens celebrate Jesus’ birth...

 

[Windwalker]

I was unaware that heathens celebrate Jesus’ birth...

Those that do call themselves Christian, but they aren't seen as that because they don't believe all the tenants of faith their little church subscribes to. All that other stuff is just pagan Jesus, not the *real*, approved-of Jesus they placed in their nativity set, the nativity of the chosen few whom God loves, and hates all the rest. Merry Christmas, pagans.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I was unaware that heathens celebrate Jesus’ birth...

We are not to celebrate anything using the same manners that heathens use to celebrate anything.

 

[Windwalker]

We are not to celebrate anything using the same manners that heathens use to celebrate anything.

Why not? Does it make God upset for some reason? What reason would that be?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Why not? Does it make God upset for some reason? What reason would that be?

If I could fully understand God that would be amazing. I only know what He has said in the Bible and I believe that is what we should follow. Am I wrong? Maybe. Do I want to take a chance? No.

 

[InChrist]

Does it really speak of carving wooden idols, though? Or is that simply how people choose to interpret it? Let's examine the text in question:


From the King James Version...

Jeremiah 10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 10 - King James Version


It really doesn't speak specifically of "carved wooden idols." I think it can be interpreted as the custom of cutting down a tree, trimming, mounting it, and decorating it.

Yes, the text definitely does speak specifically in regard to carving and making idols and people worshiping these idols as gods, instead of the true and living God who created heaven and earth.....


Inasmuch as there is none like You, O Lord
(You are great, and Your name is great in might),
7 Who would not fear You, O King of the nations?
For this is Your rightful due.
For among all the wise men of the nations,
And in all their kingdoms,
There is none like You.
8 But they are altogether dull-hearted and foolish;
A wooden idol is a ]worthless doctrine.
9 Silver is beaten into plates;
It is brought from Tarshish,
And gold from Uphaz,
The work of the craftsman
And of the hands of the metalsmith;
Blue and purple are their clothing;
They are all the work of skillful men.
10 But the Lord is the true God;
He is the living God and the everlasting King.

11 Thus you shall say to them: “The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under these heavens.”


14 Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge;
Every metalsmith is put to shame by an image;
For his molded image is falsehood,
And there is no breath in them.