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Featured So Much for Promises

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Skwim, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    In Matthew 24, Jesus warns about the future and the end of time when everything will be destroyed and he will return. In verse 34 he even says when this will happen.

    34 Truly I tell you, this generation ["This people" "The people who are living" "The people of this day" "The people living now" "The people of this time"] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

    So what's going on? None of this came true. Was Jesus lying? Was he mistaken? Did he change his mind?



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    #1 Skwim, Jul 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  2. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Did you ever look up what the understanding is? Or did you just post it because you want it to say what you want it to say? :rolleyes:
     
  3. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    What "understanding," the apologists' explanation? No.

    I posted because as it stands it appears that Jesus broke his promise. And just to be clear, I want my posts to say what I want them to say because that's what I want to say.

    I also note that you've offered no explanation. Why is that? Is there none?

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    #3 Skwim, Jul 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Probably because when he tries to put an explanation in his own words he can see how poor it is.
     
  5. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Not at all... I just wanted to point out to the public at large that you make statements without research. :) It is so readily available that I wonder why you do it.

    Not the generation of men in general; as if the sense was, that mankind should not cease, until the accomplishment of these things; nor the generation, or people of the Jews, who should continue to be a people, until all were fulfilled; nor the generation of Christians; as if the meaning was, that there should be always a set of Christians, or believers in Christ in the world, until all these events came to pass; but it respects that present age, or generation of men then living in it; and the sense is, that all the men of that age should not die, but some should live till all these things were fulfilled; (John Gill)
     
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Really? What "research" can one do? We all know those at apologetics sites are merely liars for Jesus. Do you have anything concrete to explain this discrepancy? It appears that you are trying to shift the burden of proof. A typical defensive action when one knows that he is wrong.
     
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  7. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    LOL

    Your statement says it all.

    it's ok, Subduction... Jesus loves you and I do too. :D
     
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  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Show me an apologist site that does not lie for Jesus. It is amazing that so many Christians think that their God is so weak that they have to lie for him. You know that you cannot honestly debate some of the failures of the Bible.

    But of course this was another dishonest dodge on your part. And supports my original statement. Even you appear to know how pathetic the excuses are for this failed verse.
     
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  9. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Yup, Jesus had set a time limit in which all of this was to take place, which would have been pretty much <70 years---the top life expectancy at that time. So what is your point? Jesus made a promise which wasn't kept. (Gotta say, reading such convoluted, run-on mid 19th century prose is enough to give one a headache.)

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  10. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    The scriptures are "the words of the wise" and you need wisdom to understand them. God never tells us it is easy to understand. It says the fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom and Jesus said His words are "spirit and they are life". So you're trying to understand spiritual things with your fleshly mind. You're like those who left Jesus because He said that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood. Jesus is from heaven and speaks of heavenly things often in mysteries. You are from the earth so you only understand earthly things.

    The carnal human brain is unstable(unreliable) in all it's ways. Not to be trusted. We all have double minds. That is the left and right brain. We are all naturally double minded and therefore weak in our understanding. We cannot figure the things of God out on our own. To be spiritually minded is the way to understand the scriptures.
     
  11. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    You could arguably say Armageddon is coming. Just not Jesus or God.
     
  12. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Indeed one could.

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  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Please, if you can't explain this error then you can't be all that wise yourself. No excuses. No false claims about others. You might not be able to understand this, but I understand it just fine. I am not afraid to be honest when discussing the Bible.
     
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  14. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    The NT writers were convinced that the Parousia was imminent. So they had Jesus say these things. Or, Jesus, himself, may have been convinced of it, in his zeal.
     
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  15. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    And what, only Christians have wisdom? Get real!

    Not sure what your "it" refers to, but has god ever said it's not easy to understand? Chapter and verse please, along with your definition of "it."

    What's so difficult about understanding a string of words like:

    Truly I tell you, this generation ["This people" "The people who are living" "The people of this day" "The people living now" "The people of this time"] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

    Please point out the tricky parts here where your wisdom from a fear of the Lord comes into play. Here, I'll even list them to make it easier. Just point out those that require this special wisdom you say is required.

    A.Truly
    B. I
    C. tell
    D. you
    E. this
    F. generation
    G. will
    H. certainly
    I. not
    J. pass
    K. away
    L. until
    M. all
    N. these
    O. things
    P. have
    Q. happened


    Judge not that ye be not judged. (Matthew 1:1)

    Ah yes, and you're from . . . .err, what planet was that?

    Yet I assume you trust that what it told you to write here is the truth. Interesting how that works, and how convenient . ;)

    OMG! You just make up **** as you go along and expect people are going to believe it. No conceit here at all, Nope. None at all. :rolleyes:

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  16. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    So the NT writers, and I assume the OT writers as well, just made up stuff to fit their current theology. Not that I doubt this, but I find it interesting coming from someone who is, in part, Christian.

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  17. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Well... yes. You have to remember that the theology was talked about before it was ever written down. The Bible is a repository of ideas and experiences — not the progenitor of those ideas and experiences. As such, the paradigm for writing is largely reactionary and not proactive. Even the prophets weren’t “predicting the future” so much as they were reflecting on the state of the world as it related to the truth they discerned about God.

    And, for the record, I am more than “partly” Christian. I’m a member of the clergy.
    ;)
     
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  18. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    There is no way to tell whether time is simply a construct of our minds. In reality, everything could be happening and over simultaneously. Just because many minds agree that they experience the passage of time similarly doesn't mean that we're not just looking at the fiction of our brains. Our senses actually having nothing to do with the perceived objects. There are countless wavelengths of energy and our brain decides to ignore almost all of it, but some of it shows up as sound, light, heat, or invisible. It's sort of intriguing to ponder at why such a small subset of data is relevant and the rest isn't. It'd be pretty good to know when you were getting hit with deadly radiation so you could DODGE. :D

    Anyway, in my experience the Bible is written from the point of acceptance of people a long time ago. (Whatever time means, perhaps it's better to think of it as APPARENT time.) It'd be a tragic error to take anything said too literally.
     
  19. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    :) Yes... Skwin. I understand your point.

    I just don't agree with it. :D
     
  20. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I thought that was what you were doing. :rolleyes:
     
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