So Jesus is not God?

[Muffled]

Yes, the body of Jesus was dead & the life of Jesus was dead.,....otherwise, can you explain why he need to be resurrected? If he was not really dead, then the resurrection is a lie??

I believe that is what I said.

 

[Muffled]

If a person is born again they are considered the elect of God, they are the Bride of Christ, Member of the Body of Christ, their names are written in the Book of Life and the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of this inheritance. Ephesians, 2Peter

I believe one could ask what makes us elect. I believe God chooses the person who receives Jesus as Lord and Savior, so those who do that would be the elect.

 

[ElishaElijah]

“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Yes, and if I am being poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11, 17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Jesus is God (form of God) He became a man and bondservant (form of bondservant), amazing love and humility right there!

 

[Soapy]

“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Yes, and if I am being poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11, 17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Jesus is God (form of God) He became a man and bondservant (form of bondservant), amazing love and humility right there!

I thought God was I’m mutable?

How can anyone be ‘Equal to Almighty God’?

Surely that would make two Gods?

‘all power and authority has been given to me?’, Jesus said. So, at some point before this, Jesus did not have ‘all power and authority’. Is that true?

Who gave Jesus the power and authority?

Doesnt Jesus ‘hand back the power and authority…’ to Him who gave it to him in the first place?

How is Jesus given power and authority if he is Almighty God who is the owner of all power and authority?

Questions…. Questions….Questions…. Loadsa questions…. But……..

…..Answers…. None! (At least not VALID ones!!)

 

[ElishaElijah]

I thought God was I’m mutable?

How can anyone be ‘Equal to Almighty God’?

Surely that would make two Gods?

‘all power and authority has been given to me?’, Jesus said. So, at some point before this, Jesus did not have ‘all power and authority’. Is that true?

Who gave Jesus the power and authority?

Doesnt Jesus ‘hand back the power and authority…’ to Him who gave it to him in the first place?

How is Jesus given power and authority if he is Almighty God who is the owner of all power and authority?

Questions…. Questions….Questions…. Loadsa questions…. But……..

…..Answers…. None! (At least not VALID ones!!)

How can God Almighty give anyone All His authority in Heaven and Earth? Because His Son is also God Almighty just like Scripture says. I understand this because when you’re talking about God, He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Soapy]

How can God Almighty give anyone All His authority in Heaven and Earth? Because His Son is also God Almighty just like Scripture says. I understand this because when you’re talking about God, He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Oh, I see… So the Son of God is given all power and authority by God despite the son of God already being God who has all power and authority already.

And later, God gives the power and authority (that God gave him) back to God!!

Well, that makes sense (Not!!)

• ‘Then comes the end whence he (Jesus) hands back the power and authority to Him that gave it to him’

What happened with Joseph in Egypt where Pharoah said to Joseph:

• ‘[Joseph] You will have all the power and authority of Pharoah to rule until the famine is over…. Except for my throne, you are to be Pharoah so that no man may lift a foot or place a foot unless you say so’ (paraphrased)

And when the famine was over, Joseph handed the power and authority back to Pharoah - Pharoah who gave him the power and authority in the first place.

Sound familiar?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Oh, I see… So the Son of God is given all power and authority by God despite the son of God already being God who has all power and authority already.

The Son of God/ God became a man to redeem mankind. Ask yourself, What would it take and look like if God became a man and live like us so we could be saved? How could God demonstrate by actions how much He loves us?
He did this through Jesus Christ His Son.
It seems people are discounting the lengths God went to save us and then blaspheme Him by saying of the Son that He is less than Almighty God because He humbled Himself and became a man.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Oh, I see… So the Son of God is given all power and authority by God despite the son of God already being God who has all power and authority already.

And later, God gives the power and authority (that God gave him) back to God!!

Well, that makes sense (Not!!)

• ‘Then comes the end whence he (Jesus) hands back the power and authority to Him that gave it to him’

What happened with Joseph in Egypt where Pharoah said to Joseph:

• ‘[Joseph] You will have all the power and authority of Pharoah to rule until the famine is over…. Except for my throne, you are to be Pharoah so that no man may lift a foot or place a foot unless you say so’ (paraphrased)

And when the famine was over, Joseph handed the power and authority back to Pharoah - Pharoah who gave him the power and authority in the first place.

Sound familiar?

Joseph was a type of Christ, yes. But you’re ignoring the rest of Scripture describing who Jesus is and what He has done.
“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[moorea944]

The Son of God/ God became a man to redeem mankind. Ask yourself, What would it take and look like if God became a man and live like us so we could be saved? How could God demonstrate by actions how much He loves us?
He did this through Jesus Christ His Son.
It seems people are discounting the lengths God went to save us and then blaspheme Him by saying of the Son that He is less than Almighty God because He humbled Himself and became a man.

I"m really not understanding what you are saying here.....

You say that God became a man, he became Jesus. So there was no one in Heaven? Then you say that God was working through Jesus..... But... isnt God Jesus?

Second, Jesus IS less than his father, that's all through scripture. Never does it say that Jesus is equal with God. Jesus gave God the glory in everything he did. Doesnt scripture tells us that Jesus has a God and a father? I'm not seeing your version of this at all. I think your saying that Jesus is God and God was working through Jesus, which is himself, and Jesus prayers to God, which is himself.... and .... well, I"m really not sure what your saying here.....

 

[ElishaElijah]

I"m really not understanding what you are saying here.....

You say that God became a man, he became Jesus. So there was no one in Heaven? Then you say that God was working through Jesus..... But... isnt God Jesus?

Second, Jesus IS less than his father, that's all through scripture. Never does it say that Jesus is equal with God. Jesus gave God the glory in everything he did. Doesnt scripture tells us that Jesus has a God and a father? I'm not seeing your version of this at all. I think your saying that Jesus is God and God was working through Jesus, which is himself, and Jesus prayers to God, which is himself.... and .... well, I"m really not sure what your saying here.....

Who is God? Is He The Father and Creator? Yes but not just the Father. Is He the Son, Jesus Christ, Creator, Redeemer? Yes but God is not just the Son. Is He the Holy Spirit, the Breath of God, Indwelling believers, dynamite power of God? Yes
To get a complete picture and understanding of God He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Soapy]

Who is God? Is He The Father and Creator? Yes but not just the Father. Is He the Son, Jesus Christ, Creator, Redeemer? Yes but God is not just the Son. Is He the Holy Spirit, the Breath of God, Indwelling believers, dynamite power of God? Yes
To get a complete picture and understanding of God He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

1. God is Father; the Creator
2. God is Jesus Christ; Creator and Redeemer
3. God is Holy Spirit; Breath OF GOD, Power of God

Tell me… What is the definition of ‘Father’? Is it not:

• ‘He who is Creator’
• ‘He who is Giver of Life’
• ‘He who brings into being…’

How then is Jesus Christ, ‘Father’?

And, what is the purpose of a REDEEMER before the creation of the world? Who or what was there to redeem?

And, finally, you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about the Holy Spirit OF GOD… IT is indeed, the breath of God, the power of God.

So look at John 1:1…
‘In the beginning was THE BREATH’
‘And the BREATH was WITH GOD’ (it was THE BREATH OF GOD)
‘And the BREATH OF GOD WAS [AN] ALMIGHTY [POWER]’
….
‘And without that BREATH/POWER OF GOD, NOTHING THAT WAS CREATED that was created’

Yes, creation was FROM THE FATHER … BY HIS POWER, by his BREATH… by his POWER, when he spoke by his Breath:

• ‘Let there be light… and there was light!’

And the raw universe, a physical world, was created.
And there followed six periods of further creations of basic entities, vegetation, mid and higher level animal, and sentient beings.

Yes, the FATHER is the only creator… and HIS SPIRIT (which is Holy!!!) is his POWER and his BREATH!

—————————————-

But getting back to your general post:

So you are saying that only one part of God became man… and that part that became man was equal to the rest of God that was not man?

So the man-God was still God in all of himself while he was man who was ‘Lower than the angels of God’?

And the man-God did not have all power and authority until the rest of God, who was not a man, gave it to him…? So that still beggars the question I asked about what was this man-god BEFORE he received all power and glory FROM GOD who you say he was?

I agree with Moorea944: I’m not seeing what you are saying!!

 

[ElishaElijah]

So you are saying that only one part of God became man… and that part that became man was equal to the rest of God that was not man?

So the man-God was still God in all of himself while he was man who was ‘Lower than the angels of God’?

And the man-God did not have all power and authority until the rest of God, who was not a man, gave it to him…? So that still beggars the question I asked about what was this man-god BEFORE he received all power and glory FROM GOD who you say he was?

I agree with Moorea944: I’m not seeing what you are saying!!

This verse explains what Jesus the Son did:
“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
And Colossians :
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:15-23‬ ‭ESV‬‬
In these verses you can see that Jesus was in the form of God and humbled himself and became a bondservant. He created, holds together all things. He is the fullness of God in bodily form.

 

[Soapy]

This verse explains what Jesus the Son did:
“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
And Colossians :
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:15-23‬ ‭ESV‬‬
In these verses you can see that Jesus was in the form of God and humbled himself and became a bondservant. He created, holds together all things. He is the fullness of God in bodily form.

Mate, ‘Image of’ something IS NOT the something that it images.

Besides, ADAM was created in the IMAGE OF GOD!!!

And, Jesus was ANOINTED with the Holy Spirit OF GOD which gave him the POWER to act in the power of God (Acts 10:37-38)

See also that when the apostles were ANOINTED with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, THEY TOO acquired the power of God (but because they were sinful in different degrees) they only acquired MEASURED amounts of God’s holy POWER, so that AT THEIR BREATH a man was made to see, a man was made to walk, a disease was removed, a language understood and spoken, a ‘dead’ man was raised up, a sin against God was forgiven, …

 

[ElishaElijah]

Mate, ‘Image of’ something IS NOT the something that it images.

Besides, ADAM was created in the IMAGE OF GOD!!!

Adam didn’t create all things, wasn’t in the form of God and became a man by humbling himself, he was not all the fullness of God in bodily form.

 

[Soapy]

Adam didn’t create all things, wasn’t in the form of God and became a man by humbling himself, he was not all the fullness of God in bodily form.

At least I see you agree that an image of something is not the thing that it images…. Nor how could it be… the actions of the image DEPENDS on the source… hence Jesus says that he can only do what he sees the Father doing… and he says only what the Father taught him to say… if he was God he wouldn’t have anyone to teach him not show him… nor would he need to!


Was Adam created in the image of God?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Was Adam created in the image of God?

Yes and he was formed from the dust of the earth and who is the Us that God said?:

“Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26-27‬ESV

“then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭ESV‬‬

 

[Soapy]

This is an important and exciting bit of this thread.

It CLEARLY shows how deluded Trinitarians are concerning their fallacious ideology. ElishaElijah is so confused about what he thinks that he consistently expresses absolute contrary arguments.

However, I understand that every exposure of a trinity farce gives Trinitarians the opportunity to create a defence against their faux par for the next encounter….!!

And so trinity remains until Jesus Christ, Son of man, returns with his powerful angels!

 

[ElishaElijah]

This is an important and exciting bit of this thread.

It CLEARLY shows how deluded Trinitarians are concerning their fallacious ideology. ElijahElisha is so confused about what he thinks that he at one point expresses absolute contrary arguments.

However, I understand that every exposure of a trinity farce gives Trinitarians the opportunity to create a defence against their faux par for the next encounter….!!

And so trinity remains until Jesus Christ, Son of man, returns with his powerful angels!

So your lack of understanding equates to a trinitarian farse, how so? Not seeing a contradiction
Adam was made from the ground in God’s image and likeness but not God.
Jesus Christ is God the Son and the creator who humbled himself to become like Adam so He could redeem Adam.

 

[Soapy]

Yes and he was formed from the dust of the earth and who is the Us that God said?:

“Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26-27‬ESV

“then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Yes, and where was Jesus born from….

‘The seed of a woman’, the Virgin Mary, in fact.

Her seed, the egg that is discharged on a monthly basis by a woman to the earth… was ‘GIVEN LIFE’ by the Holy Spirit of God…

And the CHILD that was born BY THIS PROCESS (the ‘overshadowing’ of the Holy Spirit of God) IS HOLY (naturally!?) and shall be called, ‘Son of the God most high’.

Yes, Adam, too, was called, ‘SON OF GOD’ (until he sinned). Do you know the chapter and verse that says so?

And, ‘Son of God’ means (do you know what it means?)

Ot means:

• ‘He who follows (is led by) the SPIRIT OF GOD’
• ‘He who does the works of the Father’

Yes, Adam (until he sinned) was completely led by the spirit of God, doing all that God commanded him to do … Just as Jesus said to the Jews:

• ‘I only said that God is my Father [Son of God]; if I’m not doing the works of my Father then do not believe me…’

By the way, Phil 2 is concerning Jesus NOT ABUSING his powers (acquired at his anointing as I pointed out before), but, as is written in the preceding verses, ‘He who desires to be first must put themselves last’. So, Jesus, true to his word, though HAVING THE POWER OF GOD (Holy Spirit… remember??) in him (anointed with IT) did not go about like a megalomaniac throwing mountains in the sea or even making a tree fruit when he was hungry but rather, HUMBLED himself to even begging water from a hated enemy (a Samaritan). Now that is humble… Jesus could have just ‘magicked’ up water by this power. But the temptation in the wilderness showed that it would be an abuse of his powers to do that! And, imagine the consternation if Jesus had agreed with the disciples to ‘reign down fire from heaven’ on the wicked people they encountered….

No, Jesus humbled himself as Son of Man with the power of God! Jesus taught the apostles to do the same as he…

THATS WHAT PHIL 2 is about!!!

 

[Soapy]

So your lack of understanding equates to a trinitarian farse, how so? Not seeing a contradiction
Adam was made from the ground in God’s image and likeness but not God.
Jesus Christ is God the Son and the creator who humbled himself to become like Adam so He could redeem Adam.

You are struggling to deny the truth…. Hence your flat responses.