So Jesus is not God?

[John1.12]

But @john 1.12, you don’t believe what the Bible says!

Jesus says that he is the son of God because he is doing the works of the Father… that his Will is to do THE Will of his Father - and you say that that means Jesus IS GOD.

You say to believe what the scriptures say yet you refuse acknowledgement of what Jesus says. Instead, you select what TRINITY maliciously claims.

Matthew 7:21 says:

• “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

Again, Jesus says that the way to life in the kingdom of the Father is to do the WILL OF THE FATHER… and:

• “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.” (John 4:34)
  
• “Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.” (John 7:17)

Jesus tells us that his Will is to do his Father’s Will, and that what he speaks is what was taught to him by the Father…

• “The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.” (John 14:10)
• “By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.” (John 5:30)

And who sent Jesus, and when did he send Jesus?

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee … how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, but God raised him from the dead… He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. ” (Acts 10:37-42)

And with all this evidence you still say Jesus is:

• the God who empowered him with the power of God
• the God that raised him (god, you say) from the dead
• the God that granted him to be judge over the living and the dead

So you are saying that:

• Jesus anointed himself with one of the three persons of the pagan trinity god
• Jesus anointed himself with the power that as god he already had
• Jesus raised himself from the dead even though we are told that it was the Father who did do:
  • “The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.” (Acts 5:30)
    
  • “Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him [Jesus] from the dead—” (Galatians 1:1)

You turn Jesus into a liar when you say what you say… yet it is not your belief but that of what you have been disputable taught!

@john 1.12, hear what Jesus says to you:

• “@john 1.12, @john 1.12, why do you persecute me? It is useless for you to fight against my will.”!

The bible says Jesus did the will of the Father . Yes . Those that hold to Jesus being God, do not reject what he did as a man . How many more times. Every verse you quote that says Jesus did something ,and you say " see look he called God his God " ,or " see look he did the will of the Father, " we say ,amen !! Its crucial that Jesus was both God and man . Now what your doing is assuming the opposite every time you see a verse that describes his humanity. Muslims do this , they say Jesus can't be God because he came to earth ,and ate and drank ..To them God is too high and distant to come amongst us .
T

 

[John1.12]

Me too! I'm glad you recognize how nuts it is.

Yeah you'd think if it was made up ,it would be simple .

 

[John1.12]

But @john 1.12, you don’t believe what the Bible says!

Jesus says that he is the son of God because he is doing the works of the Father… that his Will is to do THE Will of his Father - and you say that that means Jesus IS GOD.

You say to believe what the scriptures say yet you refuse acknowledgement of what Jesus says. Instead, you select what TRINITY maliciously claims.

Matthew 7:21 says:

• “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

Again, Jesus says that the way to life in the kingdom of the Father is to do the WILL OF THE FATHER… and:

• “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.” (John 4:34)
  
• “Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.” (John 7:17)

Jesus tells us that his Will is to do his Father’s Will, and that what he speaks is what was taught to him by the Father…

• “The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.” (John 14:10)
• “By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.” (John 5:30)

And who sent Jesus, and when did he send Jesus?

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee … how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, but God raised him from the dead… He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. ” (Acts 10:37-42)

And with all this evidence you still say Jesus is:

• the God who empowered him with the power of God
• the God that raised him (god, you say) from the dead
• the God that granted him to be judge over the living and the dead

So you are saying that:

• Jesus anointed himself with one of the three persons of the pagan trinity god
• Jesus anointed himself with the power that as god he already had
• Jesus raised himself from the dead even though we are told that it was the Father who did do:
  • “The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.” (Acts 5:30)
    
  • “Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him [Jesus] from the dead—” (Galatians 1:1)

You turn Jesus into a liar when you say what you say… yet it is not your belief but that of what you have been disputable taught!

@john 1.12, hear what Jesus says to you:

• “@john 1.12, @john 1.12, why do you persecute me? It is useless for you to fight against my will.”!

Why do you keep pointing out the ' humanity ' verses ? We affirm them . Jesus isn't a rebel within the God head ,doing things apart from The Father and the Holy Spirit . Just like in marriage the Man is not greater in the sense of ' being, worth essence , value, and such ..No he has greater roles in the sense of headship. Within the God head the three persons are co equal ( Just like the man and woman ) but the voluntarily assume different roles for purposes . Like all three were there in creating the universe and raising Jesus.

 

[moorea944]

I'm saying the majority of Cults are more or less in agreement on Jesus not being God .

Not sure where that is coming from.... Who's labeling those as a cult? A certain website that believes in the trinity?
But what does scripture say....

1 John 4
"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:"
Which is me.... Because that is what I believe in.

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,"
Which is you because you believe in the trinity, which is false doctrine and was put into religion around 425AD.

So..... wouldnt that make you to belong into a cult? Think about it.... Bible says that Jesus is the son of God. You say that's wrong, he is God the son. You might want to stop talking about cults.....

 

[John1.12]

Not sure where that is coming from.... Who's labeling those as a cult? A certain website that believes in the trinity?
But what does scripture say....

1 John 4
"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:"
Which is me.... Because that is what I believe in.

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,"
Which is you because you believe in the trinity, which is false doctrine and was put into religion around 425AD.

So..... wouldnt that make you to belong into a cult? Think about it.... Bible says that Jesus is the son of God. You say that's wrong, he is God the son. You might want to stop talking about cults.....

1 John is addressing Gnosctism. Those that deny that Jesus came in the flesh . This is the same Author that wrote the Gosepl of John. Which is about both his humanity and his divinity . You can't leave one out .

 

[John1.12]

Not sure where that is coming from.... Who's labeling those as a cult? A certain website that believes in the trinity?
But what does scripture say....

1 John 4
"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:"
Which is me.... Because that is what I believe in.

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,"
Which is you because you believe in the trinity, which is false doctrine and was put into religion around 425AD.

So..... wouldnt that make you to belong into a cult? Think about it.... Bible says that Jesus is the son of God. You say that's wrong, he is God the son. You might want to stop talking about cults.....

Christianity affirms the trinity . Its a central teaching of Christianity. You cannot be considered a 'Christian 'without affirming it . I do not consider someone who rejects the trinity to be a Christian. You could be confused or in ignorance, and that would be fine . But this isn't your position. You reject the Christian position of the trinity . This makes a non Christian. Now I don't say your not saved , thats not for me to say .

 

[Soapy]

The bible says Jesus did the will of the Father . Yes . Those that hold to Jesus being God, do not reject what he did as a man . How many more times. Every verse you quote that says Jesus did something ,and you say " see look he called God his God " ,or " see look he did the will of the Father, " we say ,amen !! Its crucial that Jesus was both God and man . Now what your doing is assuming the opposite every time you see a verse that describes his humanity. Muslims do this , they say Jesus can't be God because he came to earth ,and ate and drank ..To them God is too high and distant to come amongst us .
T

Oh wow… now you are trying to call me a Muslim… You are really fishing without a hook!

And you are saying that GOD leaves his mighty throne to come into his own creation… you are sadly laughable… yet not you but what you have been taught in opposition to the truth.

You say I only talk about Jesus’ humanity… YES!!!

Yes, @john 1.12, yes, that’s right. Jesus was a MAN!!

But don’t go back to that wretched trinity trap thing you tried before: Jesus is not a ‘MERE’ man… wow… even that shows that trinity is desperate… truth speakers NEVER EVER CLAIMED that Jesus was a ‘Mere’ man… it is trinity that despicably says so towards truth speakers and AND YOU KNOW THAT!

So, in knowing that you are making a false claim against truth speakers you condemn yourself in that regard! Even simple conscience should tell you not to make such awful false claims. Remember:

• “Do not grieve the spirit of Truth”!

@john 1.12, I do not say that Jesus is a mere man. I have told you many times and quoted verifying supporting verses that show the truth. Your desperation in seeing the truth and realising that trinity out is false drives you to deny what you read and understand:

1. God created the physical world to be inhabited and ruled over by a physical image of himself…
2. God created man as an image of himself
3. The first man was created, body from the inert dust of the red earth (‘Adam’), and enlivened by the breath of God: the Holy Spirit (‘ruach’). Such a creation is pure, holy, sinless, righteous
4. Adam carried out all that God showed him, directed him, commanded him, to do and was thus called ‘Son of God’ (in the flesh… Holy Angels are equally ‘Sons of God’ in Spirit)
5. But this first man sinned and lost his place as ‘Father of procreated mankind’ as now all his offspring are born with inherited sin.
6. God was angry and considered destroying his creation … but relented as he had a plan of redemption (AS ANY GOOD DESIGNER OF A FREE WILLED SYSTEM WOULD DO!). The redemption was that the sin of Adam (which condemned all mankind to eternal death no matter their piousness and innocence) could be removed if a man born by THE SEED OF A WOMAN were to live a righteous, sinless, and holy life and give his blood as a sacrifice by his death
7. God gave time to see if such a man could be found from among the offspring of Adam. But when the given time passed and no one was found (only David came close but not close enough) GOD put his contingency plan into action
8. Sin comes through the Father in humanity through whom all offsprings are procreated. But God chose a virgin whose SEED (egg in the womb) is akin to the ‘dust of the red’ earth that mirrors the body of Adam. And, like the body of Adam, the seed is inert, inactive, lifeless… and like the body of Adam, God INSPIRITED the seed of the woman by the overshadowing of his Holy Spirit. THEREFORE, the GOD INSPIRED CREATED child was holy, righteous, sinless… and, if the child showed himself to be so inclined, WOULD BE CALLED “Son of God”
9. So it was. And this creates Human Being is called, ‘The Last Adam’… and I quoted several verses showing the point of why this is, such as ‘By one MAN sin came into the world and death to all mankind… and By one MAN sin was destroyed by the sacrifice of his blood’ (paraphrased) which is a staple belief of all Jews and Christians.
10. But this Son did not come into his own from birth. His life was understated and non-impressive in relativity. It was in his 30th year that he was called into service to God… yes, SERVICE to God (Isaiah 42:1). He, Jesus, was ANOINTED at his baptism BY GOD: ‘With Holy Spirit AND POWER’.
11. No one who is anointed with Holy Spirit and power can be said to be ‘mere’! You read this and still try to belittle the power of the Holy Spirit, the power of God! Do you not fear God… seems you don’t!
12. And by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit of God - the Father, Jesus was able to carry out the great works that he did - and Jesus told us that is the case: ‘It is the Father working in me…’.
13. And having been empowered with Holy Spirit, it was fully appropriate that Jesus was TESTED as to whether he would misuse these powers. He passed the tests and EARNED the title of ‘Son of God’.
14. And NOTE CAREFULLY: It was AFTER Jesus was anointed with Holy Spirit and with power that he was SENT ‘into the world’. So ‘sent into the world’ is NOT a ‘coming down from heaven’ as many trinity pagan believers state, but rather, ‘to face ignorance, dogma, ungodliness, and pure sin… Satan!’
15. Jesus always opposed any suggestions, false beliefs, and accusations falsely put to him from the Jews and always put his heavenly Father as his GOD.
16. And, as one poster stated, if Jesus was God, what purpose would there be in sweating blood and almost faltering to sin about dying. Jesus agonised about whether indeed God could raise him from the dead and prayed the Father if there could be another way… but recovered himself saying, ‘Not my Will but Yours!’ Living a fully righteous, sinless, and holy life dedicated (sanctified) to his spirit Father and then dying for the sake of all sinners …is a huge undertaking but a necessary one he is truly to be called ‘Son of God’…
17. And, having died and then been raised up again by God, the man, Jesus, was made IMMORTAL BY GOD (if Jesus was God he would scarcely need to be made immortal) and was raised up to Heaven to be seated AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD (seated next to God does not make him God) and given POWER AND AUTHORITY to rule fir a period of time (If Jesus is God how is he given power… and note carefully; while on earth he DID NOT HAVE AUTHORITY even though he had power. He always requested the authority from his Father before doing any miracles! But here in Heaven, God gave him BOTH the power AND the full authority to use it) And when the task that he was given the power and authority to do was done Jesus HANDS BACK the power and authority TO HIM WHO GAVE IT TO HIM… the Father: GOD!
18. And finally, when all is done, Jesus judges the world (‘GOD JUDGES NO ONE but grants all judgement to the Son’!) and in doing so he SELECTS those who he deems worthy for HIS KINGDOM, to have ETERNAL LIFE in his kingdom. Hence Jesus is rightly called at that time, ‘ETERNAL FATHER’ (prophesied in Isaiah… and, what God speaks must come true!)
19. So finally, Jesus takes his seat as KING and RULER over the created world… It would hardly be worthy that the creator BECOMES ruler over what he created AS A REWARD when if he were God he would be ruler over the HOUSE, the MANSION of rooms, which he now rules over… (‘In my Fathers house there are many rooms; I go to prepare [one of those rooms] for you…!’)
20. And Jesus refers to himself as ‘Man’ many times … ‘Son of Man’ coming with the clouds! What God purposed must come true: A man becomes ruler over the created world just as God proposed from the beginning (see 1.) Ruled by the perfect ‘Image [human] of God’… (( an image is not the thing it is the image of… a perfect image can only perfectly MIRROR what it is the image of. And Jesus says that he ‘Can only do what he sees his Father doing’… what he sees GOD doing… in the physical created world))

So, @john 1.12, which part do you disagree with and give your reasonings. Thanks.

 

[John1.12]

Oh wow… now you are trying to call me a Muslim… You are really fishing without a hook!

And you are saying that GOD leaves his mighty throne to come into his own creation… you are sadly laughable… yet not you but what you have been taught in opposition to the truth.

You say I only talk about Jesus’ humanity… YES!!!

Yes, @john 1.12, yes, that’s right. Jesus was a MAN!!

But don’t go back to that wretched trinity trap thing you tried before: Jesus is not a ‘MERE’ man… wow… even that shows that trinity is desperate… truth speakers NEVER EVER CLAIMED that Jesus was a ‘Mere’ man… it is trinity that despicably says so towards truth speakers and AND YOU KNOW THAT!

So, in knowing that you are making a false claim against truth speakers you condemn yourself in that regard! Even simple conscience should tell you not to make such awful false claims. Remember:

• “Do not grieve the spirit of Truth”!

@john 1.12, I do not say that Jesus is a mere man. I have told you many times and quoted verifying supporting verses that show the truth. Your desperation in seeing the truth and realising that trinity out is false drives you to deny what you read and understand:

1. God created the physical world to be inhabited and ruled over by a physical image of himself…
2. God created man as an image of himself
3. The first man was created, body from the inert dust of the red earth (‘Adam’), and enlivened by the breath of God: the Holy Spirit (‘ruach’). Such a creation is pure, holy, sinless, righteous
4. Adam carried out all that God showed him, directed him, commanded him, to do and was thus called ‘Son of God’ (in the flesh… Holy Angels are equally ‘Sons of God’ in Spirit)
5. But this first man sinned and lost his place as ‘Father of procreated mankind’ as now all his offspring are born with inherited sin.
6. God was angry and considered destroying his creation … but relented as he had a plan of redemption (AS ANY GOOD DESIGNER OF A FREE WILLED SYSTEM WOULD DO!). The redemption was that the sin of Adam (which condemned all mankind to eternal death no matter their piousness and innocence) could be removed if a man born by THE SEED OF A WOMAN were to live a righteous, sinless, and holy life and give his blood as a sacrifice by his death
7. God gave time to see if such a man could be found from among the offspring of Adam. But when the given time passed and no one was found (only David came close but not close enough) GOD put his contingency plan into action
8. Sin comes through the Father in humanity through whom all offsprings are procreated. But God chose a virgin whose SEED (egg in the womb) is akin to the ‘dust of the red’ earth that mirrors the body of Adam. And, like the body of Adam, the seed is inert, inactive, lifeless… and like the body of Adam, God INSPIRITED the seed of the woman by the overshadowing of his Holy Spirit. THEREFORE, the GOD INSPIRED CREATED child was holy, righteous, sinless… and, if the child showed himself to be so inclined, WOULD BE CALLED “Son of God”
9. So it was. And this creates Human Being is called, ‘The Last Adam’… and I quoted several verses showing the point of why this is, such as ‘By one MAN sin came into the world and death to all mankind… and By one MAN sin was destroyed by the sacrifice of his blood’ (paraphrased) which is a staple belief of all Jews and Christians.
10. But this Son did not come into his own from birth. His life was understated and non-impressive in relativity. It was in his 30th year that he was called into service to God… yes, SERVICE to God (Isaiah 42:1). He, Jesus, was ANOINTED at his baptism BY GOD: ‘With Holy Spirit AND POWER’.
11. No one who is anointed with Holy Spirit and power can be said to be ‘mere’! You read this and still try to belittle the power of the Holy Spirit, the power of God! Do you not fear God… seems you don’t!
12. And by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit of God - the Father, Jesus was able to carry out the great works that he did - and Jesus told us that is the case: ‘It is the Father working in me…’.
13. And having been empowered with Holy Spirit, it was fully appropriate that Jesus was TESTED as to whether he would misuse these powers. He passed the tests and EARNED the title of ‘Son of God’.
14. And NOTE CAREFULLY: It was AFTER Jesus was anointed with Holy Spirit and with power that he was SENT ‘into the world’. So ‘sent into the world’ is NOT a ‘coming down from heaven’ as many trinity pagan believers state, but rather, ‘to face ignorance, dogma, ungodliness, and pure sin… Satan!’
15. Jesus always opposed any suggestions, false beliefs, and accusations falsely put to him from the Jews and always put his heavenly Father as his GOD.
16. And, as one poster stated, if Jesus was God, what purpose would there be in sweating blood and almost faltering to sin about dying. Jesus agonised about whether indeed God could raise him from the dead and prayed the Father if there could be another way… but recovered himself saying, ‘Not my Will but Yours!’ Living a fully righteous, sinless, and holy life dedicated (sanctified) to his spirit Father and then dying for the sake of all sinners …is a huge undertaking but a necessary one he is truly to be called ‘Son of God’…
17. And, having died and then been raised up again by God, the man, Jesus, was made IMMORTAL BY GOD (if Jesus was God he would scarcely need to be made immortal) and was raised up to Heaven to be seated AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD (seated next to God does not make him God) and given POWER AND AUTHORITY to rule fir a period of time (If Jesus is God how is he given power… and note carefully; while on earth he DID NOT HAVE AUTHORITY even though he had power. He always requested the authority from his Father before doing any miracles! But here in Heaven, God gave him BOTH the power AND the full authority to use it) And when the task that he was given the power and authority to do was done Jesus HANDS BACK the power and authority TO HIM WHO GAVE IT TO HIM… the Father: GOD!
18. And finally, when all is done, Jesus judges the world (‘GOD JUDGES NO ONE but grants all judgement to the Son’!) and in doing so he SELECTS those who he deems worthy for HIS KINGDOM, to have ETERNAL LIFE in his kingdom. Hence Jesus is rightly called at that time, ‘ETERNAL FATHER’ (prophesied in Isaiah… and, what God speaks must come true!)
19. So finally, Jesus takes his seat as KING and RULER over the created world… It would hardly be worthy that the creator BECOMES ruler over what he created AS A REWARD when if he were God he would be ruler over the HOUSE, the MANSION of rooms, which he now rules over… (‘In my Fathers house there are many rooms; I go to prepare [one of those rooms] for you…!’)
20. And Jesus refers to himself as ‘Man’ many times … ‘Son of Man’ coming with the clouds! What God purposed must come true: A man becomes ruler over the created world just as God proposed from the beginning (see 1.) Ruled by the perfect ‘Image [human] of God’… (( an image is not the thing it is the image of… a perfect image can only perfectly MIRROR what it is the image of. And Jesus says that he ‘Can only do what he sees his Father doing’… what he sees GOD doing… in the physical created world))

So, @john 1.12, which part do you disagree with and give your reasonings. Thanks.

What ever it is you believe, its not from the bible. You have some ideas loosely associated with the bible , but thats it . Let me guess you believe in conditional salvation through ' works ' ?

 

[Soapy]

What ever it is you believe, its not from the bible. You have some ideas loosely associated with the bible , but thats it . Let me guess you believe in conditional salvation through ' works ' ?

There you go again, trying to pin a label on me!

What’s with you and labelling… I asked you to critique what I wrote - not vainly try to find a label for the true belief as shown in the scriptures.

But if you do disagree, please outline like I did, what YOU think is the theme of the overall scriptures?

 

[John1.12]

There you go again, trying to pin a label on me!

What’s with you and labelling… I asked you to critique what I wrote - not vainly try to find a label for the true belief as shown in the scriptures.

But if you do disagree, please outline like I did, what YOU think is the theme of the overall scriptures?

The ' theme ' of the bible is Dominion and Jesus

 

[Soapy]

The ' theme ' of the bible is Dominion and Jesus

Fear possesses your and your wrongful belief.

You have no light to shine regarding what you claim you believe from the scriptures.

It is better, then, that you refrain from making misleading posts if you are not prepared to outline, as I have done on many occasions, what your theme of the scriptures is in such a way from beginning to end and midpoints, that a cohesive mood board of points and corresponding verses from the scriptures will tell of your belief.

Failure to structure the theme in the way outlined only serves to show that you fear the consequences of trying.

The snidishness and childishness of your ungodly responses do not represent the Spirit of Truth (that you callously and carelessly and wrongfully call ‘a person’) and I warn you again that this is exactly what is also warned about in the scriptures as:

• “Grieving the Holy Spirit”

It means that you are turning, or trying to turn, the Spirit of Truth into a lie… and if truth is made into a lie, and believed upon, then there is no hope for you!

1. God is one God
2. God is The Father
3. God is YAHWEH

Point 1. is not what Trinitarians and the mass of Christians claim… the other two points speak for themselves.

Why would God be saying he is an ‘ECHAD’? What purpose does it serve to know this (if it were true that he said that?)

No… What God said was that his favoured nation, who were living or enslaved among PAGAN WORSHIPPERS OF MULTIPLE GODS, should believe that their God, Yahweh, was their:

• “Only God”

That the Israelites were to believe in ONE GOD… that there was NO OTHER GOD BUT HE that they should worship… for though there are those who believe in other Deities, other lawgivers, other RULERS, whom the pagans worship, nevertheless, HE, YAHWEH, was ‘GOD of all who are called GODS’.

And Jesus Christ stated plainly that thus ONLY GOD was the Father, for indeed, ‘Father’ means:

• ‘Creator’,
• ‘Life Giver’,
• ‘Bringer into being thst which was not’
• ‘The head’

saying:

• “Father….This means eternal life, that they should believe in You, THE ONLY TRUE GOD…”

And the Apostles stated:

• “The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying.” (2 Cor 11:31)
• “Grace and peace to you (the church in Corinth) from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,” (2 Cor 1:2-3)
• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached—how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.“ (Acts 10:37-38)

Why do you continue to play such childish games with something that is of paramount importance to your Spiritual life? Do you not recognise that you have made yourself into an ‘OPPOSER’?

 

[joelr]

Yes, joelr, quite right what you say and reference.

No disrespect, I beg you please, but the proof is inherent in the scriptures without external references.

I understand that exegesis and scholarly criticisms are the approach of those seeking professional and expert knowledge of the scriptures, and that is great and welcomed … but I like to keep my posts firmly as possible within the scriptures simply because any poster can bring ‘evidence’ from external sources and plough them into the thread as though they were sacrosanct… then the thread posts becomes a ‘He said, she said’ ricocheting of personal inputs from ‘side liners’ - Rather like a one-on-one fight where one or both participants sudden bring in fighters from among the watchers and unbalance the match. It doesn’t express the fighting authority of the two, protagonists and antagonists, alone. And for this reason, and I’m glad it hasn’t happened here, I would disallow trinity Creeds as evidence of Jesus being God.. or anything, in fact, because the INPUTTER of such cannot explain what someone(s) else thought when they devised the creeds nor is it a belief that I would agree to at any cost: a stand-off would ensue and nothing would be achieved.

Argue only from the immediate source along with footnotes of commonality such that we can agree with the text taken from a common source.

No thank you. I'll use whatever evidence I see fit. There is no need to quibble about what John writes because it's consensus that it isn't historical, non-historical religious scripture is actually the only form of scripture ever seen so it's in line with what we know.
Going back the synoptic problem has been completely solved by Christian scholarship that Mark is the source gospel.
Arguments explained at bible.com:
The Synoptic Problem | Bible.org
As several PhD historians will point out, the rest are re-writes of Mark with different politics and theological agendas.

Mark itself is all written in mythical, parables and verbatim use of Psalms and other fiction. RIng cycles, triads, all types of myth writing along with clear use of Pauls letters to craft earthly stories. So the is no evidence that any of this is real. Never mind ridiculous questions like is Jesus a demigod or is he God?

The problem with @john 1.12, is that he rarely ever evidences what he claims to believe. And, in the face of absolute truth of a verse or purpose of a verse, he openly denies…., or ignores… what is said so as not to have to agree to that truth.

From his minimalist responses it is also clear that he has little knowledge of the scriptures, and is just thrashing about hoping to hit a lucky verse or theme from whichever trinity doctrine or ideology that he clings to.

No gospels give sources, names they got information from, evidence, nothing.

The fact that he seems not to understand that the New Testament is concerning the messiah, the Christ, the son of God in the flesh who majestically and selflessly gave his life as a sacrifice for the sin of the first son of God, Adam, is telling from his outburst that I keep showing the humanity of Jesus … yet… how is he showing what he claims is the DIVINITY of Jesus… (though, to be honest, I don’t actually fully know what he means by ‘Divinity of Jesus’ because he refuses to define words that he uses - and those I ask him to define… The reality bring that he knows that to define those words would DISCREDIT his belief!

World messiahs (virgin born) that come to save humanity were in the Persian religion before Israel was even a nation. These concepts were added to Judaism during the Persian invasion. 2nd Temple Period.
So were Hellenistic concepts about heaven as a place for everyone's immortal soul, resurrection, apoctalyptic concepts, Satan vs God,
The Mesiah, dying/rising demigod was being added to all the religions in the region. Judaism was the last to do so. Being super obsessed with sin they had to incorporate sin into the story.
A God needing substitutionary magic blood sacrifice to forgive "original sins" is too archaic and belongs in the Iron Age. How you guys word the concepts is between you.


"
During the period of the Second Temple (c. 515 BC – 70 AD), the Hebrew people lived under the rule of first the Persian Achaemenid Empire, then the Greek kingdoms of the Diadochi, and finally the Roman Empire.[48] Their culture was profoundly influenced by those of the peoples who ruled them.[48] Consequently, their views on existence after death were profoundly shaped by the ideas of the Persians, Greeks, and Romans.[49][50] The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[50] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is derived from Persian cosmology.[50] By the early first century AD, these two seemingly incompatible ideas were often conflated by Hebrew thinkers.[50] The Hebrews also inherited from the Persians, Greeks, and Romans the idea that the human soul originates in the divine realm and seeks to return there.[48] The idea that a human soul belongs in Heaven and that Earth is merely a temporary abode in which the soul is tested to prove its worthiness became increasingly popular during the Hellenistic period (323 – 31 BC).[40] Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead.[40]


"The unique historical features of Zoroastrianism, such as its monotheism,[5][6][7][8][9] messianism, judgment after death, heaven and hell, and free will may have influenced other religious and philosophical systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Greek philosophy,[10] Christianity, Islam,[11] the Baháʼí"

 

[Soapy]

No thank you. I'll use whatever evidence I see fit. There is no need to quibble about what John writes because it's consensus that it isn't historical, non-historical religious scripture is actually the only form of scripture ever seen so it's in line with what we know.
Going back the synoptic problem has been completely solved by Christian scholarship that Mark is the source gospel.
Arguments explained at bible.com:
The Synoptic Problem | Bible.org
As several PhD historians will point out, the rest are re-writes of Mark with different politics and theological agendas.

Mark itself is all written in mythical, parables and verbatim use of Psalms and other fiction. RIng cycles, triads, all types of myth writing along with clear use of Pauls letters to craft earthly stories. So the is no evidence that any of this is real. Never mind ridiculous questions like is Jesus a demigod or is he God?



No gospels give sources, names they got information from, evidence, nothing.



World messiahs (virgin born) that come to save humanity were in the Persian religion before Israel was even a nation. These concepts were added to Judaism during the Persian invasion. 2nd Temple Period.
So were Hellenistic concepts about heaven as a place for everyone's immortal soul, resurrection, apoctalyptic concepts, Satan vs God,
The Mesiah, dying/rising demigod was being added to all the religions in the region. Judaism was the last to do so. Being super obsessed with sin they had to incorporate sin into the story.
A God needing substitutionary magic blood sacrifice to forgive "original sins" is too archaic and belongs in the Iron Age. How you guys word the concepts is between you.


"
During the period of the Second Temple (c. 515 BC – 70 AD), the Hebrew people lived under the rule of first the Persian Achaemenid Empire, then the Greek kingdoms of the Diadochi, and finally the Roman Empire.[48] Their culture was profoundly influenced by those of the peoples who ruled them.[48] Consequently, their views on existence after death were profoundly shaped by the ideas of the Persians, Greeks, and Romans.[49][50] The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[50] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is derived from Persian cosmology.[50] By the early first century AD, these two seemingly incompatible ideas were often conflated by Hebrew thinkers.[50] The Hebrews also inherited from the Persians, Greeks, and Romans the idea that the human soul originates in the divine realm and seeks to return there.[48] The idea that a human soul belongs in Heaven and that Earth is merely a temporary abode in which the soul is tested to prove its worthiness became increasingly popular during the Hellenistic period (323 – 31 BC).[40] Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead.[40]


"The unique historical features of Zoroastrianism, such as its monotheism,[5][6][7][8][9] messianism, judgment after death, heaven and hell, and free will may have influenced other religious and philosophical systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Greek philosophy,[10] Christianity, Islam,[11] the Baháʼí"

Too much exegesis and philosophy draws the mind away from the basis of the picture and theme that is ensconced in the belief of the Christian faith and belief.

I can see how things like virgin birth and redemption and heavenly abode become fantasy and mythology - even paganistic - when you view it in the light of the FALSE BELIEF that is TRINITY.

Yes, I can see that the scriptures then turn to ridiculous and nonsensical claptrap which then easily fits in with the Persian, Helenisitic, Greek and Babylonian fallacies of belief.

Studies of religious beliefs then link these external malefactors with Demi-Gods which is exactly what trinity claim is the personage of the Jesus of the Bible.

I contest with trinity. I contest with the fallacy of all three God beliefs, whether one God as three persons or three persons as one God or one God as three ASPECTS…. They are all trinitarian… and WRONG!

Not only that but the belief in heavenly abode is totally FALSE… and I agree with you there. But it is exactly from pagan input that these false themes come. Stories, beliefs, teachings, of pagan INPUTTER caused the weird belief of heavenly abode simply from the incredulous belief that one can predict that one is AN ELECT of God… since the Scriptures tell of the ELECT being in heaven and ruling from heaven. What needs to dismay this selfish belief is that …OVER WHOM ARE THESE HEAVENLY ELECT RULING OVER… and WHAT IS THE PURPOSE THEN OF GOD’S WORD OF MANKIND CREATING A PARADISE ON EARTH (note that ‘earth’, spoken of here is not the PLANET “EARTH” bug rather, the whole of the created universe… a universal ‘earth’ and thus a paradise WORLD.

But when we discuss the Scriptures as Christians in the belief of ONE GOD and a world created for the inhabitants of humanity, then all external input destroys the purpose - as you suggest… hence my point of not including anything like that.

I understand that you want to input your views but perhaps this thread and similar that are pointed at THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE is not the place for your input.

Reality: there are plenty of posts, threads, sections, that are geared to your views and input. It DESTROYS discussion and debate of those who are serious (or just jokers) and draws the mind away from valid interactions.

Please, can you not see that it is the pagan TRINITY belief that ties you into your studies of pagan beliefs and draws the nonsense of trinity scriptures into disrepute as a claim of worthiness as a belief - toto!!

The peoples that were ‘Chosen by God’ did not fall to pagan inclusion and therefore carried the truth of God DESPITE being intruded upon by those external elements around them.

In the same way, those chosen by God still, are not intruded upon by false interpretations of Christian TRINITY belief but keep themselves pure in that regard.

For this reason such ones do not engage in studies as you say. Those pagan beliefs are nonsense to them - AS YOU SEE, trinity believers cannot put forward valid responses to questions out to them… they ‘run away’ or fall to fantasy answers which they cannot follow up… they simply move to another point and try to find a foothold in scriptures… without success…

WHAT KEEPS TRINITY GOING FOR 2000 YEARS:
Simple… Trinity is like a virus that just keeps mutating and will keep doing so until Jesus Christ comes back to destroy it. And that is right: what purpose would there be for Jesus to return if the truth was believed by all? Is it not that many many Will believe not from personal belief but simply to be in the ‘hip’ culture? Absolutely! Therefore the raise EASY NONSENSE - the false fast-food - is there to show those who truly seek wholesome Godly food… like Daniel and his companions!!

 

[joelr]

Too much exegesis and philosophy draws the mind away from the basis of the picture and theme that is ensconced in the belief of the Christian faith and belief.

This sounds like you are saying don't study comparative religion and analyze literary styles. That would be one way to keep people ignorant and unaware that the myths are passed on syncretically, are not original and have been done before.

I can see how things like virgin birth and redemption and heavenly abode become fantasy and mythology - even paganistic - when you view it in the light of the FALSE BELIEF that is TRINITY.

First of all this exact issue has zero to do with trinity? Virgin born world saviors who save humanity was predicted by Zoroaster around 1600BC. It was myth. Through religious syncretism the myth entered all the Middle Eastern religions, Phrygians, Thracians and so on.
Petra Pakken detains this in her book The Hellinization of Early Religion.
Eventually the Jewish religion also took on these myths during the 2nd temple period.
Hebrew Bible Professor Francesca Stavrakopoulou speaks on the Persian period and it's shaping of the Bible.
3:10

Yes, I can see that the scriptures then turn to ridiculous and nonsensical claptrap which then easily fits in with the Persian, Helenisitic, Greek and Babylonian fallacies of belief.

Studies of religious beliefs then link these external malefactors with Demi-Gods which is exactly what trinity claim is the personage of the Jesus of the Bible.

I contest with trinity. I contest with the fallacy of all three God beliefs, whether one God as three persons or three persons as one God or one God as three ASPECTS…. They are all trinitarian… and WRONG!

Wow. Who cares. YOu are arguing with someone else here? You just said it yourself, the concepts were not in the Jewish religion. Heaven, souls that return to heaven, resurrection at the end of time, God vs Satan, they are all Persian/Greek beliefs and were added to Jewish scripture after those nations occupied Judea. Trinitarian or not trinitarian. They are all myths. Heaven, saviors, souls, all myth.

Not only that but the belief in heavenly abode is totally FALSE… and I agree with you there. But it is exactly from pagan input that these false themes come. Stories, beliefs, teachings, of pagan INPUTTER caused the weird belief of heavenly abode simply from the incredulous belief that one can predict that one is AN ELECT of God… since the Scriptures tell of the ELECT being in heaven and ruling from heaven. What needs to dismay this selfish belief is that …OVER WHOM ARE THESE HEAVENLY ELECT RULING OVER… and WHAT IS THE PURPOSE THEN OF GOD’S WORD OF MANKIND CREATING A PARADISE ON EARTH (note that ‘earth’, spoken of here is not the PLANET “EARTH” bug rather, the whole of the created universe… a universal ‘earth’ and thus a paradise WORLD.

But when we discuss the Scriptures as Christians in the belief of ONE GOD and a world created for the inhabitants of humanity, then all external input destroys the purpose - as you suggest… hence my point of not including anything like that.

Yeah, no. It's still all mythology. Yahweh is not real. Savior demigods who resurrect and get members into the afterlife, myth. It's all fiction.

I understand that you want to input your views but perhaps this thread and similar that are pointed at THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE is not the place for your input.

Lets see. Religious debate forum, yes
general debates, yes
Is Jesus God, do I have an opinion, yes.
Well looks like I belong here. Please jump in a lake for being "that guy" who thinks he owns every thread he posts on.

Reality: there are plenty of posts, threads, sections, that are geared to your views and input. It DESTROYS discussion and debate of those who are serious (or just jokers) and draws the mind away from valid interactions.

And yet you responded to me, engaged me with discussion, then answered all my questions. Rather than pass on to the next post. Wow. "that guy" x2. Have a talk with yourself.
Also, passive aggressive backhand insults (implying my post isn't "valid"). Get in the lake.

Please, can you not see that it is the pagan TRINITY belief that ties you into your studies of pagan beliefs and draws the nonsense of trinity scriptures into disrepute as a claim of worthiness as a belief - toto!!

Please tell me what trinity has to do with any of this?
The OT is borrowed Mesopotamian myths.
2nd temple Judaism is borrowed Persian/Greek myths.
Christianity is borrowed dying/rising savior demigod myths
trinity, nothing to do with these facts.
Holy spirit, also pagan.

In Zoroastrianism, the Holy Spirit, also known as Spenta Mainyu, is a hypostasis of Ahura Mazda, the supreme Creator God of Zoroastrianism; the Holy Spirit is seen as the source of all goodness in the universe, the spark of all life within humanity, and is the ultimate guide for humanity to righteousness and communion with God. The Holy Spirit is put in direct opposition to its eternal dual counterpart, Angra Mainyu, who is the source of all wickedness and who leads humanity astray.[44]

the Holy Spirit appears to have an equivalent in non-Abrahamic Hellenistic mystery religions. These religions included a distinction between the spirit and psyche,

The peoples that were ‘Chosen by God’ did not fall to pagan inclusion and therefore carried the truth of God DESPITE being intruded upon by those external elements around them.

Savior messiahs - pagan
heaven - pagan
dying rising demigods - pagan
baptism - pagan
apoctalyptic end of the world- pagan
resurrection at end of world - pagan
commandmants from God on a stone - Babylonian myth
Job tempted - Babylonian
Genesis - babylon
Eden Babylonian
3 day resurrection - pagan
God vs Evil counterpart (Satan) - pagan

people chosen by God - every nation claimed to be by their God. No Gods ever shown to exist, ever.

WHAT KEEPS TRINITY GOING FOR 2000 YEARS:
Simple… Trinity is like a virus that just keeps mutating and will keep doing so until Jesus Christ comes back to destroy it. And that is right: what purpose would there be for Jesus to return if the truth was believed by all? Is it not that many many Will believe not from personal belief but simply to be in the ‘hip’ culture? Absolutely! Therefore the raise EASY NONSENSE - the false fast-food - is there to show those who truly seek wholesome Godly food… like Daniel and his companions!!

The trinity is nonsense. Ok, did I not make that clear way back. It's all equally fiction in the same way.
Yes things said about trinity are not true. Re-hashed Mesopotamian myths are also not true. Resurrecting demigods who cancel a magic sin force through blood atonement magic is equally as fictive? Jesus is not God because there is no evidence for any theistic God and there definitely isn't evidence for Jesus that is better than Hercules or Krishna.

 

[Soapy]

This sounds like you are saying don't study comparative religion and analyze literary styles. That would be one way to keep people ignorant and unaware that the myths are passed on syncretically, are not original and have been done before.




First of all this exact issue has zero to do with trinity? Virgin born world saviors who save humanity was predicted by Zoroaster around 1600BC. It was myth. Through religious syncretism the myth entered all the Middle Eastern religions, Phrygians, Thracians and so on.
Petra Pakken detains this in her book The Hellinization of Early Religion.
Eventually the Jewish religion also took on these myths during the 2nd temple period.
Hebrew Bible Professor Francesca Stavrakopoulou speaks on the Persian period and it's shaping of the Bible.
3:10

Wow. Who cares. YOu are arguing with someone else here? You just said it yourself, the concepts were not in the Jewish religion. Heaven, souls that return to heaven, resurrection at the end of time, God vs Satan, they are all Persian/Greek beliefs and were added to Jewish scripture after those nations occupied Judea. Trinitarian or not trinitarian. They are all myths. Heaven, saviors, souls, all myth.



Yeah, no. It's still all mythology. Yahweh is not real. Savior demigods who resurrect and get members into the afterlife, myth. It's all fiction.



Lets see. Religious debate forum, yes
general debates, yes
Is Jesus God, do I have an opinion, yes.
Well looks like I belong here. Please jump in a lake for being "that guy" who thinks he owns every thread he posts on.



And yet you responded to me, engaged me with discussion, then answered all my questions. Rather than pass on to the next post. Wow. "that guy" x2. Have a talk with yourself.
Also, passive aggressive backhand insults (implying my post isn't "valid"). Get in the lake.


Please tell me what trinity has to do with any of this?
The OT is borrowed Mesopotamian myths.
2nd temple Judaism is borrowed Persian/Greek myths.
Christianity is borrowed dying/rising savior demigod myths
trinity, nothing to do with these facts.
Holy spirit, also pagan.

In Zoroastrianism, the Holy Spirit, also known as Spenta Mainyu, is a hypostasis of Ahura Mazda, the supreme Creator God of Zoroastrianism; the Holy Spirit is seen as the source of all goodness in the universe, the spark of all life within humanity, and is the ultimate guide for humanity to righteousness and communion with God. The Holy Spirit is put in direct opposition to its eternal dual counterpart, Angra Mainyu, who is the source of all wickedness and who leads humanity astray.[44]

the Holy Spirit appears to have an equivalent in non-Abrahamic Hellenistic mystery religions. These religions included a distinction between the spirit and psyche,




Savior messiahs - pagan
heaven - pagan
dying rising demigods - pagan
baptism - pagan
apoctalyptic end of the world- pagan
resurrection at end of world - pagan
commandmants from God on a stone - Babylonian myth
Job tempted - Babylonian
Genesis - babylon
Eden Babylonian
3 day resurrection - pagan
God vs Evil counterpart (Satan) - pagan

people chosen by God - every nation claimed to be by their God. No Gods ever shown to exist, ever.




The trinity is nonsense. Ok, did I not make that clear way back. It's all equally fiction in the same way.
Yes things said about trinity are not true. Re-hashed Mesopotamian myths are also not true. Resurrecting demigods who cancel a magic sin force through blood atonement magic is equally as fictive? Jesus is not God because there is no evidence for any theistic God and there definitely isn't evidence for Jesus that is better than Hercules or Krishna.

The trinity is false… THATS WHAT I AM SAYING.

But the trinity is not what scriptures teaches ….

What you are about is what you read about what trinity says SO YES you rightly say it is bunkum!

But you are WRONG to say that I am agreeing with saying that trinity is false belief TOTO… NO! Trinity is FALSE BELIEF BASED ON TRUTH.

It is the false belief I argue against - not the truth.

In any case, YOU CANNOT CLAIM DISAGREEMENT with someone’s BELIEF from an external point. I CAN argue against trinity because it is essentially the SAME BELIEF but incorrectly interpreted and wrongly spread as ‘gospel’!

Zoroastrosism… I would never enter a forum and call out this … nor would I go to a satanist session and say Satan isn’t real… Such examples are what I’m pointing out to you that you are doing.

Try to join in a CATHOLIC forum!!! You won’t get far… YET Catholicism is VAGUELY about scriptures BUT VASTLY too strict to argue with. Even I wouldn’t go there to argue with them… it would be sheer foolishness.

And that’s what I think of your posts here. Sheer worthlessness… not for the research parts but for the conclusions that you come to.

The idea is to bolster THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE in the TRUTH

 

[Muffled]

Of course they are..... Your bringing in words that arent even in scripture. Why cant you just believe in what the bible says about our Lord. He is the son of God. Your saying.... that he's God the son... See the difference? I do....

I believe God the Son fits what scripture tells us.

 

[Muffled]

If you believe what you say then you would have no problem responding to any question set to you.

Clearly, you are unable to respond… as I have encountered with every trinitarian I have posted questions to.

The reason for the lack of [CREDIBLE] responses is simply that, when put to the test, the trinitarian discovers that he/she cannot find a credible answer. It is seen that the trinity view is not valid and so the trinitarian has three positions to take up:

1. Ignore the question (like you have done)
2. Post back ‘squibble’ (like you have done)
3. Quote a disingenuous trinity fallacy (like you have done before)

So, you say that God is three persons…
And man is made in the image of God…
So, is man ‘Three persons’?

And Jesus is the image of God…
So is Jesus ‘three persons’?

And you say Jesus is God because he is image of God…
But Adam / Man is image of God (‘And God created man in his image’)
So Adam / Man must also be God, right?

Please, if you value your belief in trinity then you should have no problem answering the questions set to you.

I believe that is all false. Most of the time I ignore your posts because they are too long.

I believe I do not understand where you get this from. I do not say that God is three persons; I say that God is in three persons. And even that depends on how one defines person.

I believe that is wrong. The conclusion is wrong because the premise is wrong. Adam is created in the image of the gods which is why it says "we" and not "I." I believe Jesus is the image of God but not because of the body itself but because of what the body can do.

I believe not since God is not.

 

[joelr]

The trinity is false… THATS WHAT I AM SAYING.

But the trinity is not what scriptures teaches ….

What you are about is what you read about what trinity says SO YES you rightly say it is bunkum!

But you are WRONG to say that I am agreeing with saying that trinity is false belief TOTO… NO! Trinity is FALSE BELIEF BASED ON TRUTH.

It is the false belief I argue against - not the truth.

Well there might be cause for the Trinity. But the concept of trinity was already in older religions in that region so it makes sense that early Christians would want one as well. They do have a "holy spirit" besides God, which is yet another myth borrowed from Persia and Greek"

"the Holy Spirit appears to have an equivalent in non-Abrahamic Hellenistic mystery religions. These religions included a distinction between the spirit and psyche, which is also seen in the Pauline epistles."

Persian:
", the Holy Spirit, also known as Spenta Mainyu, is a hypostasis of Ahura Mazda, the supreme Creator God of Zoroastrianism; the Holy Spirit is seen as the source of all goodness in the universe, the spark of all life within humanity, and is the ultimate guide for humanity to righteousness and communion with God. The Holy Spirit is put in direct opposition to its eternal dual counterpart, Angra Mainyu, who is the source of all wickedness and who leads humanity astray.[44]"

But the ENTIRE bible is mythology borrowed from older cultures. Those earlier religions were not literally true and neither is Christianity.

In any case, YOU CANNOT CLAIM DISAGREEMENT with someone’s BELIEF from an external point. I CAN argue against trinity because it is essentially the SAME BELIEF but incorrectly interpreted and wrongly spread as ‘gospel’!

Yes I can, watch ....the entire Bible are stories created by highly educated writers and used other sources of fiction to create the narratives. Therefore trinity or non-trinity are both concepts in a Middle Eastern myth.

Zoroastrosism… I would never enter a forum and call out this … nor would I go to a satanist session and say Satan isn’t real… Such examples are what I’m pointing out to you that you are doing.

Right except this is a "religious debates forum". Not a "theology debates forum". Not a " let's debate conocepts but only people who believe the supernatural stuff is literally true".
Yeah it isn't that by a long shot. Now there IS an actual forum for that on this site, I think it's theological debates. This isn't that.
And yeah, Satan isn't real, that's another Persian influence. Satan was in the OT but the modern version of an eternal war against Satan and God started at the 2nd temple period. More myth borrowing. Here you go:

"
During the Second Temple Period, when Jews were living in the Achaemenid Empire, Judaism was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism, the religion of the Achaemenids.[27][8][28] Jewish conceptions of Satan were impacted by Angra Mainyu,[8][29] the Zoroastrian god of evil, darkness, and ignorance.[8] In the Septuagint, the Hebrew ha-Satan in Job and Zechariah is translated by the Greek word diabolos (slanderer), the same word in the Greek New Testament from which the English word "devil" is derived.[30] Where satan is used to refer to human enemies in the Hebrew Bible, such as Hadad the Edomite and Rezon the Syrian, the word is left untranslated but transliterated in the Greek as satan, a neologism in Greek.[30]

The idea of Satan as an opponent of God and a purely evil figure seems to have taken root in Jewish pseudepigrapha during the Second Temple Period,[31] particularly in the apocalypse"

Oh, look, the later stories about Satan at war with Yahweh were not from people speaking with a God but was taken from a myth they clearly really liked and allowed it to radically change their theology.
It's all fiction.

Try to join in a CATHOLIC forum!!! You won’t get far… YET Catholicism is VAGUELY about scriptures BUT VASTLY too strict to argue with. Even I wouldn’t go there to argue with them… it would be sheer foolishness.
And that’s what I think of your posts here. Sheer worthlessness… not for the research parts but for the conclusions that you come to.

Cathol...Non sequitur. I don't care about your opinion. I care about what is true. These are not "my" opinions. These are the consensus opinions of entire fields of scholarship. If opinions of vast amounts of scholars who spend their professional lives studying comparative analysis, archeology, historicity to you is "sheer worthlessness" then you simply don't care about what is true.
Meanwhile there are J.Witnesses, Hindu, Islamic, any strange cult making the same claim. That evidence and analysis are worthless because they simply want what they want to be true. Or they "feel it" in their heart.
Sorry, every line of evidence points to religions being metaphorical myths.

The idea is to bolster THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE in the TRUTH

Well that would be brainwashing. To not allow historicity studies that demonstrate a religion is just like all others, to actually attempt to censor information is true ignorance. I can't believe you typed those words? Luckily it is not 1200AD and you cannot banish information that you find inconvienant.

Feel free to provide evidence that what you say is truth is actually true.

This is not a evangelical forum only for preaching. What's worse is you are trying to ban other points of view.
I cannot make this up?

 

[joelr]

What are you talking about. The delusion has gotten to you.

There is nowhere in scriptures where it says that God is coming anywhere.

The Father; Yahweh, the ONE TRUE GOD, THE MOST HIGH GOD, never leaves his place of power, his ethereal throne in heaven.

The Father sends his Holy Spirit or his angels to do his Will … and that is right!

No he fights wars and sea monsters too.


Exodus 15:3:
Yahweh is a man of war;
Yahweh is his name.
Isaiah 42:13:
Yahweh goes forth like a mighty man;
like a man of war(s) he stirs up his fury.
Zephaniah 3:17: Yahweh, your God, is in your midst,
a warrior who gives victory.
Psalm 24:8:
Who is the King of Glory?
Yahweh, strong and mighty;
Yahweh, mighty in battle.

 

[moorea944]

No he fights wars and sea monsters too.


Exodus 15:3:
Yahweh is a man of war;
Yahweh is his name.
Isaiah 42:13:
Yahweh goes forth like a mighty man;
like a man of war(s) he stirs up his fury.
Zephaniah 3:17: Yahweh, your God, is in your midst,
a warrior who gives victory.
Psalm 24:8:
Who is the King of Glory?
Yahweh, strong and mighty;
Yahweh, mighty in battle.

Those sentences that you wrote. I think it's more metaphorical.

Is Yahweh a man? No
Does He actually come down and go into the mist of people? No.
So what does all this mean then? Is someone lying to us? No

God is the king of glory too. He was actually Israel's first king. He told them that He will be there king, but they wanted a king like that nations around them, so God gave them Saul.

God is mighty in battle, does that mean He fighting in the front lines? No of course not. All of this is God manifestation. God manifesting Himself in people, esp when it comes to war. He can also manifest himself in angels where it can say that God walked among them.

Angels can also carry and bear God's name too, just like on how Jesus did. And God said..... well no... an angel said.... That angel was speaking for God. God can also speak through people and work through people too. God worked through His son all of Jesus's life. Jesus said that he could do nothing without his father.

God is mighty in battle. Of course He is. He will help people win wars by his help. Very easy to understand. God does not leave heaven. There is no reason for that. Plus, the angels do God's work too, they are the "finger's of God" as scripture tells us.

God is not Jesus and Jesus is not God. God was working through Jesus, 2 Cor 5 even tells us that one too. The trinity totally degrades our Creator.