So Jesus is not God?

[Skywalker]

[I'm not saying Jesus is an angel, but as the second member of the Trinity, Jesus is self existing.]
Just to let you know something about the trinity, was added into religion around 325 AD, just to let you know by Emperor Constantine and the Consul of Nicea. God is not three people. Isnt Jesus the son of God? Then why are you making him God the son..... The Holy Spirit is not a person, it is the power of our Heavenly Father. Just for an example, look at Luke 1v35, that's just one of many verses that tell us that the Holy Spirit is the power of God.

[The Bible says that Jesus created all things. Colossians 1:16]
First of all, look at the verse before that. Jesus is the image of God. Well, there goes the trinity out the window....

Col 1 v 15-17 Some use these verses to claim the pre-existence of Christ. The phrase itself is a contradiction in terms. In any event, understanding the passage will dispel such nonsense. V.15 claims Christ to be the firstborn of every creature. Indeed He became the firstborn, or first begotten, when His father raised Him from the dead (Psa 2:7; Acts 13:33; Rev 1:5). He is the first of all those (every creature) who will receive like treatment (1Cor 15:20-23). Now immortalised and sitting at His father's right hand, Jesus is controlling worldly events (Heb 2:8;10:12). That is what vs. 16 and 17 are telling us.
It could also be argued that Jesus here in Colossians 1 is speaking of how God views Jesus. “He is “firstborn of all creation”- not in time, but in the Father’s mind”. To God, Jesus was the beginning, in everything He was in all things He held first place (Col. 1:18). But where and how? In the Father’s mind. It was God who created the world. But for God, in the context of creation, Jesus His Son was pre-eminent.

You also have a bad translation too. By him should be because of him.

Jesus did not create the world, God did. Jesus wasnt born yet. There was no reason for him to pre-exist. Why are you saying that there is two Gods? Can you show me a verse on that?

[The iniquity of all was laid upon Jesus means the same thing as he paid the price for our sin.]
Actually it doesnt. Your seeing it in a different light. So what price did Jesus pay? Still not sure what your saying here........

What's the difference between Jesus being the Son of God and God the Son?

Jesus being the image of God is mentioned in the same scripture as Jesus created all things.

I'm not saying that there are two Gods, I'm saying that Jesus is God the Son.

The price that Jesus paid was being pierced for our transgressions.

 

[moorea944]

What's the difference between Jesus being the Son of God and God the Son?

Jesus being the image of God is mentioned in the same scripture as Jesus created all things.

I'm not saying that there are two Gods, I'm saying that Jesus is God the Son.

The price that Jesus paid was being pierced for our transgressions.

[What's the difference between Jesus being the Son of God and God the Son?]
You serious?

[Jesus being the image of God is mentioned in the same scripture as Jesus created all things.]
Jesus didnt create the world or universe, God did. Scripture is clear on that. Plus, "by him" is not in the org txt. Sorry..... but it's true. Verse 16 is a bad translation. It really reads, "through him and into him". Not "by him".

["I'm not saying that there are two Gods, I'm saying that Jesus is God the Son."]
Ok,...... here's what I dont understand.... With all of the words in the bible, why do we have to make up words to put into our doctrines. Never understood that. Why cant we just believe in what the bible tells us that Jesus is the "son of God'.

[The price that Jesus paid was being pierced for our transgressions.]
They did pierce him for our transgressions, but why are you saying that it is a "price paid"?

 

[moorea944]

What's the difference between Jesus being the Son of God and God the Son?

Jesus being the image of God is mentioned in the same scripture as Jesus created all things.

I'm not saying that there are two Gods, I'm saying that Jesus is God the Son.

The price that Jesus paid was being pierced for our transgressions.

Let me ask you a question if I may... Why did Jesus (or the Messiah) have to die? Is there a reason for that?

 

[Skywalker]

[What's the difference between Jesus being the Son of God and God the Son?]
You serious?

[Jesus being the image of God is mentioned in the same scripture as Jesus created all things.]
Jesus didnt create the world or universe, God did. Scripture is clear on that. Plus, "by him" is not in the org txt. Sorry..... but it's true. Verse 16 is a bad translation. It really reads, "through him and into him". Not "by him".

["I'm not saying that there are two Gods, I'm saying that Jesus is God the Son."]
Ok,...... here's what I dont understand.... With all of the words in the bible, why do we have to make up words to put into our doctrines. Never understood that. Why cant we just believe in what the bible tells us that Jesus is the "son of God'.

[The price that Jesus paid was being pierced for our transgressions.]
They did pierce him for our transgressions, but why are you saying that it is a "price paid"?

Jesus being the Son of God isn't a reference to the virgin birth.

What do you think it means that everything was created through Jesus? It still insinuates that Jesus is the Creator.

Jesus being the son of God is a reference to his Sonship in the Trinity. Jesus as the Son of God

Biblical Meaning of "Son"

To understand the Biblical meaning of Jesus as "the Son of God", first we must examine the Biblical use of the word "son". In the Bible, "son" is a term expressing an intimate relationship with someone or something; basically, it indicates origin, but it is also used to express close association or identification with persons or things. Even when indicating origin, this term does not limit oneself to one's father and mother. One may be called the "son" of the following: his father and mother, his family, his tribe, his people, his place of birth (city or country), and the time or circumstance of his birth. The if "father-son" terminology is also used in connection with kings and their vassals or subjects, masters and servants, teachers and disciples, and almost any situation in which someone is subordinate to or dependent on someone else. The basic requirement of the "son" is to honour and obey his "father", but he should also love him and emulate him.

The term "son" is used in many other ways in the Bible, some of which are connected with origin but others of which mainly express some sort of association with or resemblance to persons or things. A large, somehow homogeneous group may be called "sons" (occupational and ethnic groups especially). Sometimes characteristics or qualities themselves are personified and regarded as having "sons" - those who possess that same characteristic or quality. Still also other uses of the term "son" in the Bible reflect the versatile and imaginative use of this term especially in the Hebrew language.

A complete list of the various uses of the term "son" in the Bible would be too long for this essay. A few of its more idiomatic uses are listed below, with their literal meanings and the translations of the Holy Bible, New International Version (or The New English Bible or Holy Bible, Revised Standard Version).

Old Testament



Reference: Expression (as literally in the original text)
-- Meaning (as found in the translation)

Genesis 5:32: "son of five hundred years"
-- "five hundred years old"



Genesis 15:3: "a son of my house"
-- "a servant in my household"



Deuteronomy 25:2: "a son of stripes"
-- "deserves to be beaten"



Judges 19:22: "sons of Belial"
-- "wicked men"



I Samuel 20:31: "a son of death"
-- "he must die"



I Kings 20:35: "sons of the prophets"
-- "a company of prophets" (NEB)



II Kings 14:14: "sons of pledging"
-- "hostages"



Job 41:28: "son of a bow"
-- "arrow" (NEB)



Isaiah 60: 10: "sons of a foreign land"
-- "foreigners"



Lamentations 3:13: "sons of a quiver"
-- "arrows from his quivers"



Joel 3:6: "sons of the Grecians"
-- "the Greeks"



Zechariah 4:14: "sons of oil"
-- "anointed"


New Testament



Matthew 9:15: "sons of the bridegroom"
-- "the guests of the bridegroom"

Matthew 12:27: "your sons"
-- "your people"



Luke 10:6: "a son of peace"
-- "a man of peace"



Luke 16:8: "the sons of this age"
-- "the people of this world";
"the sons of lights"
-- "the people of the light"



John 17:12: "the son of destruction"
-- "the one doomed to destruction"



Acts 13:26: "sons of the family of Abraham"
-- "you who come of the stock of Abraham" (NEB)



Galatians 3:7: "those who believe are children of Abraham"



Ephesians 2:2: "the sons of disobedience"
-- "those who are disobedient"


The above are only a few of the many uses of the term "son(s)" in the Holy Bible. The most common uses, which are usually translated literally, have been omitted. However, one such group might be illustrated here: personal, yet non-physical, Father-son" relationships:



Father Son(s)

I Samuel 3:6 Eli Samuel



I Samuel 24:16 Saul David



I Samuel 25:8 Nabal David



Proverbs 1:8, etc. Solomon the reader



II Kings 2: 12 Elijah Elisha



II Kings 8:9 Elisha King Ben-Hadad



II Kings 5:13 Naaman his servants



Judges 18:19 the priest the people



Genesis 4:20f. first musician all musicians, etc



Matthew 9:2 Jesus the paralytic



I Timothy 1:2, etc. Paul Timothy



Titus 1:4 Paul Titus



Philemon 10 Paul Philemon



I Peter 5: 13 Peter Mark

Jesus suffered for our sins. That is what I meant by Jesus paid a price.

 

[Skywalker]

Let me ask you a question if I may... Why did Jesus (or the Messiah) have to die? Is there a reason for that?

Because Jesus didn't want us to have to be punished for our sins, so he took that punishment upon himself at the cross.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus is also referred to as the suffering servant, but that doesn't insinuate that Jesus isn't God.

God is not a Servant to anyone.

Anyone can say say that something that WAS NOT SAID can mean that it IS SO... that’s foolishness!

Take this fir instance: It DOESNT SAY that Jesus isn’t SATAN....

Yahweh God said he would send his servant whom he has chosen... how can you then suggest that Yahweh God sent ‘a SERVANT GOD’ to do his bidding... is there such a thing... absolutely not!!

I would suggest that you refrain from foolishness and you will see the better picture. Trinity people always resort to nonsense when they find their doctrine has failed. I see thus all the time even from close friends I talk with.

 

[Skywalker]

God is not a Servant to anyone.

Anyone can say say that something that WAS NOT SAID can mean that it IS SO... that’s foolishness!

Take this fir instance: It DOESNT SAY that Jesus isn’t SATAN....

Yahweh God said he would send his servant whom he has chosen... how can you then suggest that Yahweh God sent ‘a SERVANT GOD’ to do his bidding... is there such a thing... absolutely not!!

I would suggest that you refrain from foolishness and you will see the better picture. Trinity people always resort to nonsense when they find their doctrine has failed. I see thus all the time even from close friends I talk with.

God is not our servant in the sense that we don't call him our servant, but he served us when he went to the cross. Just because Jesus incarnated and not the Father doesn't mean that Yahweh sent a servant god to do his bidding. Yahweh isn't even the name of God the Father, Yahweh is the closest there is to the name of the triune God.

Some Christian people don't believe in the Trinity. The Godhead vs The Trinity

 

[Soapy]

moorea944, ‘the delusion is strong with this one!!’
Just imagine: In Isaiah 42:1 it says that God said he would sent a messiah whom he would choose. That this messiah, God would put his spirit upon him...

Now check Starwars boy’s version:

Just because Jesus incarnated and not the Father doesn't mean that Yahweh sent a servant god to do his bidding. Yahweh isn't even the name of God the Father, Yahweh is the closest there is to the name of the triune God.

He doesn’t understand that WE SAYING “Yahweh” makes no difference. We could say: Jehovah, or Yehoveh, or Yehweh,.. it matters not how we say it... does he think ALMIGHTY GOD demands his name spoken right... that’s HUMAN. God knows the HEART of a person in that they were addressing HIM BY A PRONUNCIATION they believe to be right!

And think about it (they should)... How are we pronouncing ‘Jesus’... that’s a GREEK RENDERING of IESOUS which itself is an Aramaic rendering of the JEWISH ‘JOSHUA’...

So is Jesus indignant against trinity people who call his name wrongly????? Interesting answer from skywalker required here!! Careful, he might laser his own mouth off!!!

 

[Skywalker]

moorea944, ‘the delusion is strong with this one!!’
Just imagine: In Isaiah 42:1 it says that God said he would sent a messiah whom he would choose. That this messiah, God would put his spirit upon him...

Now check Starwars boy’s version:


He doesn’t understand that WE SAYING “Yahweh” makes no difference. We could say: Jehovah, or Yehoveh, or Yehweh,.. it matters not how we say it... does he think ALMIGHTY GOD demands his name spoken right... that’s HUMAN. God knows the HEART of a person in that they were addressing HIM BY A PRONUNCIATION they believe to be right!

And think about it (they should)... How are we pronouncing ‘Jesus’... that’s a GREEK RENDERING of IESOUS which itself is an Aramaic rendering of the JEWISH ‘JOSHUA’...

So is Jesus indignant against trinity people who call his name wrongly????? Interesting answer from skywalker required here!! Careful, he might laser his own mouth off!!!

That verse in Isaiah matches Jesus saying that the spirit of God is upon Him, to set the captives free.

 

[moorea944]

God is not our servant in the sense that we don't call him our servant, but he served us when he went to the cross. Just because Jesus incarnated and not the Father doesn't mean that Yahweh sent a servant god to do his bidding. Yahweh isn't even the name of God the Father, Yahweh is the closest there is to the name of the triune God.

Some Christian people don't believe in the Trinity. The Godhead vs The Trinity

A few things have concerned me with your words. I know you mean well though. But God didnt go the cross, Jesus did. God was in heaven at that time. Plus, God is not a triune God. Remember Moses talking to the children of Israel? "Hear O Israel, the Lord your God is one".

And what is the Godhead. Look at 1 Cor 11v3, that will tell you the correct order. Again, I"m not sure where your getting this info from.

And again, your using words that are not found in the bible, so why use them. Like incarnate.... we're really going down a wrong path on that one!!! Doesnt scripture tell us that Jesus was born a man like us? He wasnt even born like unto the angels (immortal), he was from the seed of Abraham. God is always above Jesus, always.

 

[Skywalker]

A few things have concerned me with your words. I know you mean well though. But God didnt go the cross, Jesus did. God was in heaven at that time. Plus, God is not a triune God. Remember Moses talking to the children of Israel? "Hear O Israel, the Lord your God is one".

And what is the Godhead. Look at 1 Cor 11v3, that will tell you the correct order. Again, I"m not sure where your getting this info from.

And again, your using words that are not found in the bible, so why use them. Like incarnate.... we're really going down a wrong path on that one!!! Doesnt scripture tell us that Jesus was born a man like us? He wasnt even born like unto the angels (immortal), he was from the seed of Abraham. God is always above Jesus, always.

How could Jesus go to the cross if he wasn't God? Only a holy God could pay the price of people's sin. I didn't say God the Father went to the cross only God the Son did. Moses was talking about polytheism not the Trinity. Jesus was born a man but that doesn't mean that He was not God in the flesh. Jesus said before Abraham was I am.

 

[moorea944]

How could Jesus go to the cross if he wasn't God? Only a holy God could pay the price of people's sin. I didn't say God the Father went to the cross only God the Son did. Moses was talking about polytheism not the Trinity. Jesus was born a man but that doesn't mean that He was not God in the flesh. Jesus said before Abraham was I am.

God died on the cross? I didnt know that God could die. I guess I was believing in the wrong God then. The God I worshiped coudnt die. But it seems that your God has a multiple personality complex. He's God, but the son, but a man, but a God, he died on the cross, but he was still in heaven at the time. I'd be confuse too if that was me.....

 

[Skywalker]

God died on the cross? I didnt know that God could die. I guess I was believing in the wrong God then. The God I worshiped coudnt die. But it seems that your God has a multiple personality complex. He's God, but the son, but a man, but a God, he died on the cross, but he was still in heaven at the time. I'd be confuse too if that was me.....

God died in His humanity because without dying for our sins Jesus purchasing our redemption would have no meaning. When Jesus died on the cross, God the Father was in heaven and was Jesus was separated from God the Father when he was on the cross. Why does the idea of Jesus being God the Son not make sense? There was no need for God the Father to also become a man.

 

[Soapy]

God died on the cross? I didnt know that God could die. I guess I was believing in the wrong God then. The God I worshiped coudnt die. But it seems that your God has a multiple personality complex. He's God, but the son, but a man, but a God, he died on the cross, but he was still in heaven at the time. I'd be confuse too if that was me.....

Moorea944, all skywalker’s responses echo those of the whole membership of the pagan trinity-god cult. I’m having a bad time with a long time school friend who is trinitarian and a church leader. I’m flabbergasted that a church leader is teaching exactly what skywalker is saying here. My friend is getting angry at me because, I believe, he has seen that he is wrong and doesn’t know how to cope. He is thrashing like a snake caught in a trap with no way out... the friend refuses to answer even simple question about trinity fir fear of exposing that it is a fallacy; what would he do on Sunday next standing on his pulpit? Declare that he’s been teaching fallacy about the true God fir 20 years? It would be the honest thing to do but then he wouldn’t have a church to lead as the trinity brigade would excommunicate him!!
Clever trinity people, like my friend, refuse to engage in debates... they know they will lose. The unclever ones try to defend trinity, like skywalker here is trying to do but in reality is only digging the trinity belief deeper into the mire!!!

well done for what you are saying. So far you are spot on!! (Ha! Experience has taught me never to give anyone 10/10!!!)

 

[Skywalker]

Moorea944, all skywalker’s responses echo those of the whole membership of the pagan trinity-god cult. I’m having a bad time with a long time school friend who is trinitarian and a church leader. I’m flabbergasted that a church leader is teaching exactly what skywalker is saying here. My friend is getting angry at me because, I believe, he has seen that he is wrong and doesn’t know how to cope. He is thrashing like a snake caught in a trap with no way out... the friend refuses to answer even simple question about trinity fir fear of exposing that it is a fallacy; what would he do on Sunday next standing on his pulpit? Declare that he’s been teaching fallacy about the true God fir 20 years? It would be the honest thing to do but then he wouldn’t have a church to lead as the trinity brigade would excommunicate him!!
Clever trinity people, like my friend, refuse to engage in debates... they know they will lose. The unclever ones try to defend trinity, like skywalker here is trying to do but in reality is only digging the trinity belief deeper into the mire!!!

well done for what you are saying. So far you are spot on!! (Ha! Experience has taught me never to give anyone 10/10!!!)

The Trinity is mentioned in Genesis 1:26 and 3:22 and 11:7.

 

[Soapy]

The Trinity is mentioned in Genesis 1:26 and 3:22 and 11:7.

‘The trinity’? You mean that the word, ‘us’ now means ‘Three [persons]’?

Like I said before, no one gets 10/10!!!

Have you considered that the ONLY GOD was talking to the Holy Angels?

And please take note that ‘God’ is never ever said to have Gone anywhere? All terms referring to such as ‘God is among us’ or ‘God is with us’ or ‘....’ (can’t think of any more), are referring to THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

God, the PERSON that is GOD, (the Father), never goes anywhere! I challenge anyone to stake a claim that He did?

In ALL CASES of any such thing, it is THE SPIRIT of the Father, the Spirit of God, that goes out.

And as for a trinity of persons ‘going out’... WHY? What is debilitating in an almighty God over his creation that it requires ALL THREE persons (who are ALL THE SAME ONE ALMIGHTY) to go out, or down, into humanity to berate it???

Surely it would only take ONE of the ALMIGHTY persons to do so? The Holy Spirit!!!!!

‘Let us make man in our image’... This is not THREE PERSONS talking to each other... HA Ha ha... I scream in shock and horror at the brainlessness of the claim that a SINGLE ALMIGHTY GOD is speaking to HIMSELF calling himself ‘us’ - which IMPLIES a differentiation - which is a CONTRADICTION!!!

NO! The ‘image’ referred to means, ‘personality and ability’. But, like any IMAGE, it would be LIMITED and certainly LESS THAN that of the whom the image came from. Jesus, for instance, although being image of God (conundrum if he IS GOD!!! Think about it......!!!! Please...! Think think think... if he is God then how is also the image of god!! A contradiction right there!) ‘Can only do what he sees his Father GOD doing. Can only say what his Father God taught him to say: ‘The words I speak are not mine but those of Him who sent me!’ All this implies a DEPENDENCY and a REFLECTION on and of the PRIMARY (I.e. The Father)... and the image cannot be the PRIMARY!!!

No, moorea944, THE ONE GOD was speaking to the HOLY ANGELS who are ALSO ‘image of God’ (unwritten) IN TERMS OF: that they are HIGHLY POWERFUL AND HIGHLY INTELLIGENT AND HAVE A NATURE AS OF GOD ...but ... CANNOT EXERCISE (this is very important) any powers outside of that which their creator God gives them allowance to do (and God would never give them complete autonomy - that would indeed be foolish And God is not foolish!)
Moorea944, there is a verse in the scriptures that describes the holy angels and you may be amazed, if you are not already aware, of their incredible abilities!! Can you really imagine that angels are weak weepy senseless creatures in white gowns with wings (why would a Spirit creature need bird-like wings?)

Consider that Satan, in special regard, was the mightiest Angel, so much so that he regarded that he also should receive worship from mankind (leading to his rebellion against God).

Moorea944, if such intelligence, power, and [restrained] authority were not aspects of angels then how in heaven and on earth could Satan seek to be ‘God’!!

Moorea944, you will note that although the phrase, ‘let us make man in our image’ is spoken, the ACT was taken place BY GOD, ‘And God created man in HIS IMAGE’.

Moorea944, my take is that the angels CREATED THE BODY OF ADAM... BUT IT WAS GOD (by his SPIRIT) THAT BROUGHT ADAM TO LIFE. So, the angels participated alongside God (‘us’) to bring about the first human being.

Note that it was only ONE HUMAN that was created in that event: Adam. And that it was by means of God ‘blowing the spirit of life’ into the INERT (‘dead/unlivened’!) body that made Adam ’A LIVING SOUL’.

Moorea944, it has been a long standing debate point concerning the ‘we’ and ‘us’ used in Genesis which is unresolvable and in fact farcical if the trinity line is taken. Nowhere anywhere does God refer to himself as ‘We’ or ‘Us’... It is the shock and horror of the idea that the holy angels did anything in the creation - that they didn’t just stand (!) about watching, and, of course, the DESPERATION of Trinitarians to claim God as three that drives the idea that ‘us’ and ‘we’ must mean ‘three’... and sadly, even you, even as I praised you for your correct address to skywalker, has fallen to that same nonsense!

I hope what I’ve just shown you is enough to set your mind straight on these matters. My guess is that you’ve never ever really thought about these references before and simply kneejerked from Google search those three verses - which go against your anti-trinitarian speech you only just made to skywalker!!!!

Please, please ask for more detail if you felt a Holy Spirit understanding of the ‘us’ and ‘we’ referred to.

 

[moorea944]

God died in His humanity because without dying for our sins Jesus purchasing our redemption would have no meaning. When Jesus died on the cross, God the Father was in heaven and was Jesus was separated from God the Father when he was on the cross. Why does the idea of Jesus being God the Son not make sense? There was no need for God the Father to also become a man.

[God died in His humanity because without dying for our sins Jesus purchasing our redemption would have no meaning. ]
God died? Who's telling you this?.... Are you saying that God has two natures? Wow....

[When Jesus died on the cross, God the Father was in heaven and was Jesus was separated from God the Father when he was on the cross.]
Ok, now your confusing me... God died on the cross, but he was in heaven, but he was on the cross, then Jesus died, and God didnt, but God died....... Are you sure YOU understand this?...

[ Why does the idea of Jesus being God the Son not make sense?]
Because it's not in the bible. I dont makeup words and put them into scripture. I would never do that! Jesus is not God the son, he is the son of God.

[There was no need for God the Father to also become a man.]
Finally, you get it!!!! Thank you!! lol

Jesus was a man. He died on the cross to save us. He showed us the way. That are sin nature has to be put to death and we "symbollically" do that in baptism. Read Romans 6, which I know you havent. But anyway....

Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. Why? Why did a perfect, sinless "man" have to die? Because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. Now because of what Christ did for us, we know can go to the Father, thru Jesus, for forgiveness of our sin. In baptism, we are now "in Christ", again, read Romans 6. Also, read 1 Cor 15.

The Messiah had to be like us, if he were God, the atonement goes right out the window!! God was working "through" Jesus to bring us back to God. (2 Cor 5v19), Even when Jesus went to heaven, the Apostles still referred Jesus as a man. So why do you?

Look at what the people in the OT were told about a "coming" Messiah... He was going to be like them.... David was told in 2 Sam 7, that the Messiah was going to come from YOU!!! And .... someday restore YOUR throne.... Something to think about, eh?

 

[moorea944]

‘The trinity’? You mean that the word, ‘us’ now means ‘Three [persons]’?

Like I said before, no one gets 10/10!!!

Have you considered that the ONLY GOD was talking to the Holy Angels?

And please take note that ‘God’ is never ever said to have Gone anywhere? All terms referring to such as ‘God is among us’ or ‘God is with us’ or ‘....’ (can’t think of any more), are referring to THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

God, the PERSON that is GOD, (the Father), never goes anywhere! I challenge anyone to stake a claim that He did?

In ALL CASES of any such thing, it is THE SPIRIT of the Father, the Spirit of God, that goes out.

And as for a trinity of persons ‘going out’... WHY? What is debilitating in an almighty God over his creation that it requires ALL THREE persons (who are ALL THE SAME ONE ALMIGHTY) to go out, or down, into humanity to berate it???

Surely it would only take ONE of the ALMIGHTY persons to do so? The Holy Spirit!!!!!

‘Let us make man in our image’... This is not THREE PERSONS talking to each other... HA Ha ha... I scream in shock and horror at the brainlessness of the claim that a SINGLE ALMIGHTY GOD is speaking to HIMSELF calling himself ‘us’ - which IMPLIES a differentiation - which is a CONTRADICTION!!!

NO! The ‘image’ referred to means, ‘personality and ability’. But, like any IMAGE, it would be LIMITED and certainly LESS THAN that of the whom the image came from. Jesus, for instance, although being image of God (conundrum if he IS GOD!!! Think about it......!!!! Please...! Think think think... if he is God then how is also the image of god!! A contradiction right there!) ‘Can only do what he sees his Father GOD doing. Can only say what his Father God taught him to say: ‘The words I speak are not mine but those of Him who sent me!’ All this implies a DEPENDENCY and a REFLECTION on and of the PRIMARY (I.e. The Father)... and the image cannot be the PRIMARY!!!

No, moorea944, THE ONE GOD was speaking to the HOLY ANGELS who are ALSO ‘image of God’ (unwritten) IN TERMS OF: that they are HIGHLY POWERFUL AND HIGHLY INTELLIGENT AND HAVE A NATURE AS OF GOD ...but ... CANNOT EXERCISE (this is very important) any powers outside of that which their creator God gives them allowance to do (and God would never give them complete autonomy - that would indeed be foolish And God is not foolish!)
Moorea944, there is a verse in the scriptures that describes the holy angels and you may be amazed, if you are not already aware, of their incredible abilities!! Can you really imagine that angels are weak weepy senseless creatures in white gowns with wings (why would a Spirit creature need bird-like wings?)

Consider that Satan, in special regard, was the mightiest Angel, so much so that he regarded that he also should receive worship from mankind (leading to his rebellion against God).

Moorea944, if such intelligence, power, and [restrained] authority were not aspects of angels then how in heaven and on earth could Satan seek to be ‘God’!!

Moorea944, you will note that although the phrase, ‘let us make man in our image’ is spoken, the ACT was taken place BY GOD, ‘And God created man in HIS IMAGE’.

Moorea944, my take is that the angels CREATED THE BODY OF ADAM... BUT IT WAS GOD (by his SPIRIT) THAT BROUGHT ADAM TO LIFE. So, the angels participated alongside God (‘us’) to bring about the first human being.

Note that it was only ONE HUMAN that was created in that event: Adam. And that it was by means of God ‘blowing the spirit of life’ into the INERT (‘dead/unlivened’!) body that made Adam ’A LIVING SOUL’.

Moorea944, it has been a long standing debate point concerning the ‘we’ and ‘us’ used in Genesis which is unresolvable and in fact farcical if the trinity line is taken. Nowhere anywhere does God refer to himself as ‘We’ or ‘Us’... It is the shock and horror of the idea that the holy angels did anything in the creation - that they didn’t just stand (!) about watching, and, of course, the DESPERATION of Trinitarians to claim God as three that drives the idea that ‘us’ and ‘we’ must mean ‘three’... and sadly, even you, even as I praised you for your correct address to skywalker, has fallen to that same nonsense!

I hope what I’ve just shown you is enough to set your mind straight on these matters. My guess is that you’ve never ever really thought about these references before and simply kneejerked from Google search those three verses - which go against your anti-trinitarian speech you only just made to skywalker!!!!

Please, please ask for more detail if you felt a Holy Spirit understanding of the ‘us’ and ‘we’ referred to.

[Moorea944, my take is that the angels CREATED THE BODY OF ADAM... BUT IT WAS GOD (by his SPIRIT) THAT BROUGHT ADAM TO LIFE. So, the angels participated alongside God (‘us’) to bring about the first human being.]
I mostly agree with that. No problem there my friend. If you can, grab a Rotherham bible that would help out to. It uses the Hebrew names of our heavenly father. God and GOD are two different meanings... It can be EL, Eloah, or Elohim. All different meanings. More on that for another time and post... Great post through, thanks!

 

[Skywalker]

[God died in His humanity because without dying for our sins Jesus purchasing our redemption would have no meaning. ]
God died? Who's telling you this?.... Are you saying that God has two natures? Wow....

[When Jesus died on the cross, God the Father was in heaven and was Jesus was separated from God the Father when he was on the cross.]
Ok, now your confusing me... God died on the cross, but he was in heaven, but he was on the cross, then Jesus died, and God didnt, but God died....... Are you sure YOU understand this?...

[ Why does the idea of Jesus being God the Son not make sense?]
Because it's not in the bible. I dont makeup words and put them into scripture. I would never do that! Jesus is not God the son, he is the son of God.

[There was no need for God the Father to also become a man.]
Finally, you get it!!!! Thank you!! lol

Jesus was a man. He died on the cross to save us. He showed us the way. That are sin nature has to be put to death and we "symbollically" do that in baptism. Read Romans 6, which I know you havent. But anyway....

Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. Why? Why did a perfect, sinless "man" have to die? Because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. Now because of what Christ did for us, we know can go to the Father, thru Jesus, for forgiveness of our sin. In baptism, we are now "in Christ", again, read Romans 6. Also, read 1 Cor 15.

The Messiah had to be like us, if he were God, the atonement goes right out the window!! God was working "through" Jesus to bring us back to God. (2 Cor 5v19), Even when Jesus went to heaven, the Apostles still referred Jesus as a man. So why do you?

Look at what the people in the OT were told about a "coming" Messiah... He was going to be like them.... David was told in 2 Sam 7, that the Messiah was going to come from YOU!!! And .... someday restore YOUR throne.... Something to think about, eh?

God the Son had and still had two natures in one. It's called the hypostatic union.

God in his Sonship and humanity died, not the Trinity.

Is the virgin birth the reason why Jesus is the son of God or there are other reasons?

How would the atonement go right out the wind? The Messiah not being God the Father doesn't mean that the doctrine of the atonement isn't in the Bible. The Apostles referred to Jesus as a man because he was God in the flesh. Acts 17: 31 refers to a man judging the world. That is Jesus. Why did only the second person (i.e. the son) incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth? Why not more than one person (e.g. father and son) both incarnate (together) as Jesus of Nazareth at the same time? - Quora

2 Corinthians 5 19 doesn't disagree with the Trinity. God in the form of Christ doesn't mean Christ isn't God. The coming Messiah was going to be like them because he was going to be both God and man. David was legally an ancestor of Jesus. Jesus will restore the throne of David when he rules in the future.

 

[moorea944]

God the Son had and still had two natures in one. It's called the hypostatic union.

God in his Sonship and humanity died, not the Trinity.

Is the virgin birth the reason why Jesus is the son of God or there are other reasons?

How would the atonement go right out the wind? The Messiah not being God the Father doesn't mean that the doctrine of the atonement isn't in the Bible. The Apostles referred to Jesus as a man because he was God in the flesh. Acts 17: 31 refers to a man judging the world. That is Jesus. Why did only the second person (i.e. the son) incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth? Why not more than one person (e.g. father and son) both incarnate (together) as Jesus of Nazareth at the same time? - Quora

2 Corinthians 5 19 doesn't disagree with the Trinity. God in the form of Christ doesn't mean Christ isn't God. The coming Messiah was going to be like them because he was going to be both God and man. David was legally an ancestor of Jesus. Jesus will restore the throne of David when he rules in the future.

[God the Son had and still had two natures in one. It's called the hypostatic union.]
Again, your bringing in words that arent in the bible. There is no God the son. Plus, Jesus did not have two natures, he had one. His nature was change when he was made immortal after his resurrection. "hypostatic union"? Seriously?

[God in his Sonship and humanity died, not the Trinity.]
Again, your making things up about God and his sonship and humanity. God does not die. There is God and.... His son. There is only one God AND the Lord Jesus.

[Is the virgin birth the reason why Jesus is the son of God or there are other reasons?]
Jesus is the son of God because he is God's son. But that doesnt make him God. There is a reason why God wanted Jesus to be born from a woman. ......

[The Apostles referred to Jesus as a man because he was God in the flesh.]
Is there a verse on that one? Show me.

[Acts 17: 31 refers to a man judging the world. That is Jesus.]
Yes, God will judge the world through his son. That's what the verse is saying...

[Why did only the second person (i.e. the son) incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth?]
I think when you stop using words like "second person" and "incarnate" you'll see things differently.....

[The coming Messiah was going to be like them because he was going to be both God and man.]
Listen to what your saying... The Messiah is both God and man? Think about it... Who's telling you this..... That's only in movies!

[David was legally an ancestor of Jesus. Jesus will restore the throne of David when he rules in the future.]
Absolutely