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So how rich are we supposed to be? (Mark 10:17-31)

David J

Member
NIV:

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.

29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.




We have all read this, and to the Christian believers, this is a very harrowing and difficult tenet to obey - give up all your possessions. This can be interpreted many ways, and I'm interested in hearing your opinions. I think it's the most difficult tenet to obey, even past sins like suppressing slander and sexual thoughts.

I'll give you mine.

Clearly, Jesus doesn't mean to give up all your possessions, the people with the most are just last in heaven. That's pretty good to me, at least you made it.

I can see another angle where the more rich you are, the more likely you are to sin, i.e. greed, talking down (slander) etc. So, you go southbound...

But maybe this guy was just a Christian inheritance case.

I don't know
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
We have all read this, and to the Christian believers, this is a very harrowing and difficult tenet to obey - give up all your possessions. This can be interpreted many ways, and I'm interested in hearing your opinions. I think it's the most difficult tenet to obey, even past sins like suppressing slander and sexual thoughts.
Ok. I will point out an alternative working on the axiom that this gospel is an argument from some Jews to some other Jews to be at peace with Rome, to adopt the Romans as the kingdom of God. What does this imply? It implies that the gospel argues that the wealth of the Jews should be shared with the Romans, but we aren't talking about material wealth like coins and lands. We are talking about cultural wealth and wisdom, possibly intermarriage. Probably not unlimited intermarriage. The Romans are seen as poor by the gospel writer, because they don't have the Torah or the various benefits. Psalm 119 says the Torah is to be desired even more than gold, and that is the point of view that the gospel writer is coming from. We can take that seriously.
 

David J

Member
Ok. I will point out an alternative working on the axiom that this gospel is an argument from some Jews to some other Jews to be at peace with Rome, to adopt the Romans as the kingdom of God. What does this imply? It implies that the gospel argues that the wealth of the Jews should be shared with the Romans, but we aren't talking about material wealth like coins and lands. We are talking about cultural wealth and wisdom, possibly intermarriage. Probably not unlimited intermarriage. The Romans are seen as poor by the gospel writer, because they don't have the Torah or the various benefits. Psalm 119 says the Torah is to be desired even more than gold, and that is the point of view that the gospel writer is coming from. We can take that seriously.

Thanks
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
NIV:

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.

29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.




We have all read this, and to the Christian believers, this is a very harrowing and difficult tenet to obey - give up all your possessions. This can be interpreted many ways, and I'm interested in hearing your opinions. I think it's the most difficult tenet to obey, even past sins like suppressing slander and sexual thoughts.

I'll give you mine.

Clearly, Jesus doesn't mean to give up all your possessions, the people with the most are just last in heaven. That's pretty good to me, at least you made it.

I can see another angle where the more rich you are, the more likely you are to sin, i.e. greed, talking down (slander) etc. So, you go southbound...

But maybe this guy was just a Christian inheritance case.

I don't know

Maybe this a metaphor for giving up pre-conceived notions concerning the afterlife.
\
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
NIV:

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.

29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.




We have all read this, and to the Christian believers, this is a very harrowing and difficult tenet to obey - give up all your possessions. This can be interpreted many ways, and I'm interested in hearing your opinions. I think it's the most difficult tenet to obey, even past sins like suppressing slander and sexual thoughts.

I'll give you mine.

Clearly, Jesus doesn't mean to give up all your possessions, the people with the most are just last in heaven. That's pretty good to me, at least you made it.

I can see another angle where the more rich you are, the more likely you are to sin, i.e. greed, talking down (slander) etc. So, you go southbound...

But maybe this guy was just a Christian inheritance case.

I don't know
I get to keep my computer to talk about religion!
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
It’s not the “having” of money that is wrong...it’s the “loving” it.

See 1 Timothy 6:9-10



...and the concurrent attachment to said wealth...


Being Rich is easy. You only need to value money as your highest priority. That being said you have made your highest priority a man made object. I doubt God could ever respect that.


None of us can know the mind of God.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I see the priority here. God first, and souls second. And all other things are fools treasures because the fools place their hearts on coveting treasures primarily.

One has to ask what is God's justice that I should put God before those I love and all other souls.

God also has to be a reality and I don't see that God is a reality.

The Bible doesn't really explain that God is just.

I imagine if God were ultimate fairness and justice it would be wise advice.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Being Rich is easy. You only need to value money as your highest priority. That being said you have made your highest priority a man made object. I doubt God could ever respect that.

I believe sometimes getting rich is a side benefit from doing something good.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven (sources: various parts of the bible). Jesus railed against a church that had precious gems and expensive items while not tending to the poor, hungry, naked, sick and homeless (source: bible). In modern times, Republicans oppose universal health care (Obamacare), and they make many tax reductions for the rich, who already have tax loopholes (Bill Gates made billions while paying no taxes).
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
I believe sometimes getting rich is a side benefit from doing something good.

You can only become rich by putting value on money over doing good. For example one of the Biggest complaints assigned to Mother Teresa was that she never saved money. Whenever given money she spent it on the people that needed it. You could use trillions of dollars and still not help all those in need.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven (sources: various parts of the bible). Jesus railed against a church that had precious gems and expensive items while not tending to the poor, hungry, naked, sick and homeless (source: bible). In modern times, Republicans oppose universal health care (Obamacare), and they make many tax reductions for the rich, who already have tax loopholes (Bill Gates made billions while paying no taxes).

Luke 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

I believe those words are not interchangeable. However it works the same for both. You can't take it with you and if you think you can't leave it behind then you will miss the boat.

I believe if you are using the Bible as your source then you are misinterpreting it.

Obamacare hurt as many people as it helped. But you are happy to ignore that fact I am sure. A fair tax is a flat tax. The Democrats claim to believe in that but they really hold to the Communist concept of stealing from the rich. We have a graded tax because it is understood that the impact of taxes on a poor person is greater than that on a rich person.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
You can only become rich by putting value on money over doing good. For example one of the Biggest complaints assigned to Mother Teresa was that she never saved money. Whenever given money she spent it on the people that needed it. You could use trillions of dollars and still not help all those in need.

I believe that is false. GE makes money selling refrigerators but the fact is it does me good by preserving food. Not only that but the worker who makes the refrigerator earns money to buy his family food.
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
found this image the other day
eye - 1.jpg
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
I believe that is false. GE makes money selling refrigerators but the fact is it does me good by preserving food. Not only that but the worker who makes the refrigerator earns money to buy his family food.

Prove that GE is earning a fair amount, they are paying a fair amount to employees and they are not cutting corners to make a product cheaper.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Prove that GE is earning a fair amount, they are paying a fair amount to employees and they are not cutting corners to make a product cheaper.

I believe I didn't say GE is without sin but then GE ha people running the company. I couldn't prove any of what you say and Jesus had something to say about workers being paid a fair share even though the latecomers got paid more.
 
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