So how do we fix things?

[goodjewishboy]

Yes, this post is about the Israel/Palestine mess.

I know there are strong feelings on the issue and everyone likes to take sides, point fingers and blame the other.

I'm not looking for any of that in this thread.

I'm looking for ideas.

What can individuals do to promote peace on that hotly contested, holy little piece of land?

what individual acts can we do to benefit everyone?

I want to hear what you think.

 

[goodjewishboy]

So no takers? Fine. I'll post a couple of good ideas others have had.

http://nswas.org/rubrique22.html

http://tinyurl.com/q32s4

 

[goodjewishboy]

the silence in this thread is deafening.

 

[Random]

the silence in this thread is deafening.

Sorry man, I didn't see your thread for ages!

Now, what can one do to resolve tensions in Israel? That question is impossible to answer in a way that makes likely logical sense, because in truth there is little that can be done that doesn't involve complete defeat and dissemination of either the Israeli peoples or the Palestinian.

So, avoiding that nightmare, here facetiously is what one can do to resolve the crisis:

1) Get rid of all Zionists and negate their political influence in all spheres, the hard way if necessary.
2) Crush Hezbollah, the PLA and any other group who makes unanswerable demands.
3) Declare violence of any sort in the Holy Land a crime against God Himself...punishable by death, of course.
4) Work some integration policies via housing and community relations programmes to enable tolerance between Arabs and Israelis to flourish into loving-kindness and compassion!
5) Have a special Holy Day where Jews and Muslims exchange gifts and sleepover @ each others houses for a night!

Yep, that'd go a long way towards solving it. Too much to hope for, though, isn't it?

 

[goodjewishboy]

1) Get rid of all Zionists and negate their political influence in all spheres, the hard way if necessary.
2) Crush Hezbollah, the PLA and any other group who makes unanswerable demands.

sadly those are what people seem most enthused about.

4) Work some integration policies via housing and community relations programmes to enable tolerance between Arabs and Israelis to flourish into loving-kindness and compassion!
5) Have a special Holy Day where Jews and Muslims exchange gifts and sleepover @ each others houses for a night!

I like these two, these are ideas I'm looking for.

Too much to hope for, though, isn't it?

If enough people have hope than maybe there is a chance for a good future.

 

[doppelganger]

There is no solution. All true remedies are personal.

When the Way is forgotten
Duty and justice appear;
Then knowledge and wisdom are born
Along with hypocrisy.

When harmonious relationships dissolve
Then respect and devotion arise;
When a nation falls to chaos
Then loyalty and patriotism are born.

If we could abolish knowledge and wisdom
Then people would profit a hundredfold;
If we could abolish duty and justice
Then harmonious relationships would form;
If we could abolish artifice and profit
Then waste and theft would disappear.

Yet such remedies treat only symptoms
And so they are inadequate.

People need personal remedies:
Reveal your naked self and embrace your original nature;
Bind your self-interest and control your ambition;
Forget your habits and simplify your affairs.

- Tao te Ching

 

[Ciscokid]

Yes, this post is about the Israel/Palestine mess.

I know there are strong feelings on the issue and everyone likes to take sides, point fingers and blame the other.

I'm not looking for any of that in this thread.

I'm looking for ideas.

What can individuals do to promote peace on that hotly contested, holy little piece of land?

what individual acts can we do to benefit everyone?

I want to hear what you think.

Well nuke the entire area....nobody is going to fight over 230 square miles of glass.

 

[goodjewishboy]

Well nuke the entire area....nobody is going to fight over 230 square miles of glass.

Now how would that solve anything? I'll assume your being tounge-in-cheek but I'm looking for positive solutions, not triggers for global nuclear war.

I'm not even looking for solutions, just ideas to start from.

 

[Ciscokid]

Now how would that solve anything? I'll assume your being tounge-in-cheek but I'm looking for positive solutions, not triggers for global nuclear war.

I'm not even looking for solutions, just ideas to start from.

My bad, thing is Im a good 'ol American. That means if there's a solution that involves pushing a red button I'm all for it.

Seriously? I couldn't begin to know what would help the situation. Hopefully one day these countries will find peace.

 

[kai]

there is no quick fix only the change in attitudes over a long period of time will bring peace.
the end ofoutside interference from some middle eastern states demonising the west would help that would be a good start.

hamas bringing itseld into the 20th century and deciding that the palestinian people come first would bring aid flooding in from the west.

and just let time heal the wounds

 

[greatcalgarian]

Once the oil peak is over, and middle east has little value left, the region will reach peace automatically by itself. That I see, will take place in 2100. Currently, there is very little an ordinary folk can do to influence the political world that is using middle east as testing out their power and greed.

 

[kai]

Once the oil peak is over, and middle east has little value left, the region will reach peace automatically by itself. That I see, will take place in 2100. Currently, there is very little an ordinary folk can do to influence the political world that is using middle east as testing out their power and greed.

peace as in a dustbowl of poverty?

 

[greatcalgarian]

peace as in a dustbowl of poverty?

Unfortunately, that is the case. If the Jews and Arabs did not realize that their common enemy is the oil hunder imperial west, and settle their stupid quarrelling , and work together to share their wealth given to them by God, then it is their own dooms day, at the end of the day, the West would have siphoned off all the riches, and left them with nothing to build their nation.

 

[Booko]

Unfortunately, that is the case. If the Jews and Arabs did not realize that their common enemy is the oil hunder imperial west, and settle their stupid quarrelling , and work together to share their wealth given to them by God, then it is their own dooms day, at the end of the day, the West would have siphoned off all the riches, and left them with nothing to build their nation.

Oh, is there a lot of oil in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank?

I hadn't noticed.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Oh, is there a lot of oil in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank?

I hadn't noticed.

You missed the point completely. Israel was created to allow the West to have the 'legal' foothold into Arab, Iraq, Iran etc. Without the pretext of supporting Israel, and helping the Jews to have their own nation, US and the west will not be able to create a situation for them to be able to 'control' the flow of oil from the oil rich middle east nation. Without creating a situation and tension to their own pace, at their own command, oil flow will not be that smooth, and the Arab nations will then become the world power centre instead of American or the EU or other power blocks.

 

[PureX]

There will be no peace without willingness. And right now neither side is willing to live together in peace.

Can people be made willing? Maybe, through extreme deprivation. But the rest of the world is not willing to force that upon them.

 

[Valjean]

You missed the point completely. Israel was created to allow the West to have the 'legal' foothold into Arab, Iraq, Iran etc. Without the pretext of supporting Israel, and helping the Jews to have their own nation, US and the west will not be able to create a situation for them to be able to 'control' the flow of oil from the oil rich middle east nation. Without creating a situation and tension to their own pace, at their own command, oil flow will not be that smooth, and the Arab nations will then become the world power centre instead of American or the EU or other power blocks.

I find your ideas on the motives behind the creation of Israel to be a bit of a stretch, GC. I think you overestimate the forsight of the western powers. Politicians aren't that bright...
Can you link to any documents supporting this?

In my, (possibly overly simplistic and idealistic) opinion, if the Palestinians had pursued a policy of Satyagraha rather than armed conflict the Middle-East situation would have been amicably resolved decades ago.

Violence begets violence.

 

[michel]

I find your ideas on the motives behind the creation of Israel to be a bit of a stretch, GC. I think you overestimate the forsight of the western powers. Politicians aren't that bright...
Can you link to any documents supporting this?

In my, (possibly overly simplistic and idealistic) opinion, if the Palestinians had pursued a policy of Satyagraha rather than armed conflict the Middle-East situation would have been amicably resolved decades ago.

Violence begets violence.

I agree.............I would be interested in seeing supporting evidence for that.

I don't see any 'quick fix' either; the only 'fix' I coould imagine would envolve educating all Muslims to read, give them access to unabridged and 'neutral' news so that each individual can make his/her mind up over policis and huts, rather than having them spoonfed to them by biassed Imans.

 

[jewscout]

Yes, this post is about the Israel/Palestine mess.

I know there are strong feelings on the issue and everyone likes to take sides, point fingers and blame the other.

I'm not looking for any of that in this thread.

I'm looking for ideas.

What can individuals do to promote peace on that hotly contested, holy little piece of land?

what individual acts can we do to benefit everyone?

I want to hear what you think.

'

A palestinian political leader who understands that so long as violence continues there will never be a Palestinian State and that the only course of action is to crack down seriously on all terrorist groups, funnel all of the billions in international aid into social services which will show a PA that cares about it's people and acknowledge that working together with Israel will lead to mutual social and economic growth for both parties...and he/she needs the charisma and clout to make this all happen

individually, perhaps groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad would do well to adopt nonviolent means of protest...
more of this:

would be nice.

 

[greatcalgarian]

I find your ideas on the motives behind the creation of Israel to be a bit of a stretch, GC. I think you overestimate the forsight of the western powers. Politicians aren't that bright...
Can you link to any documents supporting this?

In my, (possibly overly simplistic and idealistic) opinion, if the Palestinians had pursued a policy of Satyagraha rather than armed conflict the Middle-East situation would have been amicably resolved decades ago.

Violence begets violence.

Origin of creation of Israel is from Zionism. However, the west hitch a hike on the idea, and turned it into their advantage in creating a weak middle east.
Could you imagine if the middle east nation form a union like the EU, where will the America, the EU, the Russia block be in terms of energy resources? Currently of course China is also having a slight dependence on the middle east oil due to its industrialization.

Many 'conspiracy' theory is talking about this, for example the oil empire:
http://www.oilempire.us/
and some mention in the global research:
http://globalresearch.ca/
and
http://emperors-clothes.com/antisem.htm
and others:

Oil and the Arab-Israeli Conflict, 1948-63
[SIZE=+2]Bialer, Uri[/SIZE]

Published by EH.NET (May 1999)
Uri Bialer, Oil and the Arab-Israeli Conflict, 1948-63. New York: St. Martin's Press and Oxford: Macmillan Press, 1999. vii + 282 pp. $69.95 (hardback), 0-312-21284-4.
Reviewed for EH.NET by Nachum Gross, Department of Economics, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
This fascinating and intriguing book rightly claims to contribute to the field of international political economy. It describes and analyzes in considerable detail Israel's oil diplomacy during the first fifteen years of statehood, and the extremely adverse circumstances under which the country's energy supplies were procured. At the time, petroleum was the only practical source of energy for Israel's rapidly growing population and its expanding and modernizing economy. As such, it was no less a basic existential problem than the supply of armaments. However, despite almost crippling financial limitations, the chief constraints in obtaining crude oil and its refined products were political. Governments and the major oil companies, primarily British and American (and later the Soviets and the Iranians, too) viewed the issue predominantly from the perspective of the Arab-Israeli conflict. In view of the Arab countries' role as the Western world's major oil suppliers, their strategic location, and their potential as developing markets for manufactures and other goods (in contrast to Israel's negligible weight as a market), it is in a sense surprising that Britain and its oil companies did not abandon Israel entirely--as they almost did in the mid-1950s.
http://eh.net/bookreviews/library/0155.shtml

Israel should divide the Arabs

Israel may sabotage Arab oil exports

Israel should divide the Arabs

Instead of unwittingly uniting the Arabs into a common enemy, Israel should divide them. The first step would be for Israel to stop using the word Arab in the media and replace it with Palestinian. Israel should treat other Arabs better than Israel treats Palestinians. Current policy is the opposite. Israel gives Palestinians visa-free entry, labor permits, and a common market. Israel should cooperate with distant Muslim nations like Bangladesh and Pakistan who might be lured into collaboration if offered control of the Islamic shrines in Jerusalem. Israel could stir up conflict among Muslims by agreeing to transfer the administration of Islamic shrines in Israel to a representative body of all Islamic countries, including the non-Arab ones. The Israeli move would channel the discussion about Jerusalem away from religion and onto the political plane of Israeli-Muslim relations.
http://www.samsonblinded.org/israel_arab/2israel_divide_arabs.htm

[SIZE=+2]WHAT ARE THE [SIZE=+3]TRUE[/SIZE] FACTS CONCERNING
THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT?[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=+2]FACT![/SIZE] THERE ARE 22 SOVEREIGN ARAB STATES IN THE MIDDLE EAST, INCLUDING OIL RICH SAUDI ARABIA AND KUWAIT, who steadfastly refuse to absorb the so-called 'palestinian refugees'...preferring to keep them as political pawns in order to blame Israel for their plight!

[SIZE=+2]FACT![/SIZE] SINCE ITS RE-BIRTH IN 1948 WITH G-D'S HELP, ISRAEL, ONE SMALL JEWISH STATE SURROUNDED BY HOSTILE ENEMIES, has absorbed millions of Jewish refugees....from the HOLOCAUST, from the former Soviet Union, the Ethiopian black Jewish community, and more than 850,000 Sephardic Jews, many of whom were expelled from their homes in Arab lands where they had lived for generations...with no compensation for their property which was confiscated!

[SIZE=+2]FACT![/SIZE] UNTIL THE RECENT OUTBREAK OF THE ARAB UPRISING ('intifada')...ARABS NEVER CALLED THEMSELVES 'PALESTINIANS'.

AFTER HAVING FAILED TO ANNIHILATE ISRAEL IN FIVE WARS OF AGRESSION... THE ARAB WORLD, FOLLOWING THE LEAD OF LATE AND UNLAMENTED YASSER ARAFAT, .NOW CONTINUES TO UTILIZE HITLER'S 'BIG LIE' TECHNIQUE TO PERPETUATE THE MYTH THAT ISRAEL CREATED THE 'palestinian refugees' .

[SIZE=+2]FACT![/SIZE] JEWS LIVED IN THE LAND OF PALESTINE FOR CENTURIES (as documented in countless historic records and scholarly books such as the widely acclaimed "From Time Immemorial" by journalist Joan Peters). To this day, many Israelis possess pre-State birth certificates and passports officially stamped "Palestinian Jewish citizen". Such as the following...
http://victimsofarabterror.com/facts.htm

​