So ... Billie Eilish ...

[PureX]

Perhaps teenagers should be educated about these things at a place where they all go to be taught, by specialized personnel. We could let specially trained pedagogues draft lesson plans that take into account their current stage of emotional, mental and social development, and come up with teaching methods and materials specifically geared towards these kids, so that they can learn about their bodies and their sexuality in an age-appropriate manner and can become sexually aware without being immediately exposed to displays of sexual exploitation and the soulless machinery of capitalism.

I would like to propose calling such a place a "school".

Have you ever actually met a teenager?

 

[Koldo]

So, Billlie Eilish was on the Howard Stern Show last Tuesday and made some comments about pornography that are blowing up the internet. Unfortunately I cannot post the conversation in her own words because Howard Stern removed the video clip of it from YouTube, and from his own web page. Interestingly, he did not remove the 4 other video excerpts from that 2 hour interview; only the one about pornography. I also could not find an exact written excerpt from the interview, so I will have to post a truncated rewrite.

“As a woman, I think porn is a disgrace. I used to watch a lot of porn, to be honest. I started watching porn when I was like 11,” she said, telling Howard it helped her feel like “one of the guys.” “I think it really destroyed my brain and I feel incredibly devastated that I was exposed to so much porn.”

She frequently watched violent pornography, which she believes contributed to her suffering from sleep paralysis and night terrors. The “abusive” porn also led to problems in the bedroom once she was older and had become sexually active herself. “The first few times I, you know, had sex, I was not saying no to things that were not good. It was because I thought that’s what I was supposed to be attracted to,” Billie said.

“I’m so angry that porn is so loved, and I’m so angry at myself for thinking that it was okay,” she continued. “The way that vaginas look in porn is ****ing crazy. No vaginas look like that. Women’s bodies don’t look like that. We don’t come like that.”
​

I listened to the full interview, and so can say that a few key points have been left out, here. One is that Billie said she was a virgin when she began watching porn, and that she thought watching porn was how young people learned how to have sex. So that later, when she decided to become sexually active, she engaged in sexual behavior that was not appropriate, and not healthy, because it's what she thought she was supposed to do.

Also, I will add, that later in this long interview the subject of sexual abuse came up, and Billie made it clear that she, herself, had experienced what she defined as "statutory rape", and other very inappropriate sexual behavior on the part of men and boys, as a young teenage girl. She did not name names or give details. She did, however, talk about why she has not pressed legal charges. (Her own choice.)

We have had a number of threads on here about prostitution and pornography, and I know that most of you think it's all very well and good so long is it's "consenting". And I have received a lot of criticism in the past because I am not in favor of prostitution or pornography being legal (monetized).

I believe Billie's experiences with porn, and the damage it did to her are VERY commonplace (and so does she). She also mentions an alarming hyper-sexualization by young kids on TicToc who are apparently mimicking what they are seeing on porn sites to make themselves look "cool" and "grown up".

I have stated before and I will state again that pornography IS NOT ABOUT SEX. It's about MONEY. And more specifically, its about exploiting human sexuality, and all the confusion and selfishness that goes along with that, for monetary profit. The people producing porn and putting it on line do not care that children will see it and be significantly harmed by it. They do not care that you or I might be significantly harmed by it. All they want is MONEY. And they'll produce whatever sexually exploitive material they think will get them that money.

It looks like she had some misunderstandings and felt attracted to violent pornography. I would refrain from making any major conclusions about porn from that alone.

 

[PureX]

It looks like she had some misunderstandings and felt attracted to violent pornography. I would refrain from making any major conclusions about porn from that alone.

An 11-year-old misunderstanding porn is not the 11-year-olds fault. We need the 11-year-old. We do not need the porn.

 

[Koldo]

An 11-year-old misunderstand porn is not the 11-year-olds fault. We need the 11-year-old. We do not need the porn.

I wouldn't support outright banning something because of misunderstandings.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What ever anyone may think of porn it is here to stay.
It has always been so.
Even the Romans displayed paintings of copulating couples and sex objects in the public rooms of their houses.
Since then, paintings, books, postcards, peep shows, photographs and what ever took anyone's fancy have proliferated throughout society.

Generally the more hidden and secretive it has been, the more violent and perverted it has become, and the more it has become the province of the criminal world.

The Web has made it easily available to everyone, Children included. and quite naturally caters to all tastes and depravities.
Probably the worst aspect of it, is that is largely unrealistic, and rarely enjoyed by the participants, who might as well be robots for all the enjoyment they display. One wonders why any one bothers with it at all. But curiosity about sex is a drive that just about everyone has to one degree or another. so I can not see Porn ever dying out any time soon.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Obviously there's many people who don't share my values, hence the existence of things like the sex industry in the first place. Why bother stating such a thing?

It's the world's oldest profession. Much like alcohol is the world's oldest drug.

 

[PureX]

I wouldn't support outright banning something because of misunderstandings.

Me either. But my point is that it's not the child that needs correction. It's the very ugly, greed-based, commercial enterprise.

 

[PureX]

It's the world's oldest profession. Much like alcohol is the world's oldest drug.

And we still have not managed to get it under control. You'd think that by now we would have realized the need to do so, and have done so.

 

[Estro Felino]

It looks like she had some misunderstandings and felt attracted to violent pornography. I would refrain from making any major conclusions about porn from that alone.

That's not the point.
Prepubescents need to know what love is, first.
I grew up in the nineties watching Dawson's creek or Saved by the bell.
Imagine that...love...romance...first kisses...

 

[PureX]

That's not the point.
Prepubescents need to know what love is, first.
I grew up in the nineties watching Dawson's creek or Saved by the bell.
Imagine that...love...romance...first kisses...

They also need to know what sex is, and what sexual abuse is. And porn sure as HELL is not going to teach them that. Just the opposite. Porn will teach them that abuse and exploitation IS WHAT SEX IS. Because that's all porn is about.

One way or another, we need to get porn away from young people, and get real, honest information about sex and sexuality, and about how these can be used to abuse them, and others, to them. It takes a village to raise a kid, properly. And that means the village has to be willing to put the porn away where the kids can't get it, and replace it with real, honest information about sex. That's the bottom line.

 

[Koldo]

That's not the point.
Prepubescents need to know what love is, first.
I grew up in the nineties watching Dawson's creek or Saved by the bell.
Imagine that...love...romance...first kisses...

The unrealistic romances?
That's worse than porn.

 

[Estro Felino]

The unrealistic romances?
That's worse than porn.

I think that TV shows like telenovelas help us idealize love and to struggle for perfection.
As John Keats used to say, Beauty is Truth.

The adolescent has to aspire to beauty and not to ugliness. Speaking of feelings.

 

[Koldo]

They also need to know what sex is, and what sexual abuse is. And porn sure as HELL is not going to teach them that. Just the opposite. Porn will teach them that abuse and exploitation IS WHAT SEX IS. Because that's all porn is about.

One way or another, we need to get porn away from young people, and get real, honest information about sex and sexuality, and about how these can be used to abuse them, and others, to them. It takes a village to raise a kid, properly. And that means the village has to be willing to put the porn away where the kids can't get it, and replace it with real, honest information about sex. That's the bottom line.

Me either. But my point is that it's not the child that needs correction. It's the very ugly, greed-based, commercial enterprise.

Here in Brazil, soap operas have always been really popular. Less nowadays because of the internet, but still popular. People have frequently complained for the last couple of decades, at the very least, that those productions teach children the wrong role models. Here's the thing though: They are not intended to teach children how to behave. They are created to entertain, and that's it. It is the same with porn.

 

[Koldo]

I think that TV shows like telenovelas help us idealize love and to struggle for perfection.
As John Keats used to say, Beauty is Truth.

The adolescent has to aspire to beauty and not to ugliness. Speaking of feelings.

And then the girls keep hoping for princes that don't exist. You won't see real life on TV. It is mostly boring and uneventful with a lot of household shores on top of it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

And we still have not managed to get it under control. You'd think that by now we would have realized the need to do so, and have done so.

I see it as the people have spoken. It's really not the governments say so.

Prohibition is a stellar example of that.

 

[PureX]

Here in Brazil, soap operas have always been really popular. Less nowadays because of the internet, but still popular. People have frequently complained for the last couple of decades, at the very least, that those productions teach children the wrong role models. Here's the thing though: They are not intended to teach children how to behave. They are created to entertain, and that's it. It is the same with porn.

Using the phrase "it's just entertainment" does not excuse nor mitigate the damage these greed-based commercial enterprises can cause. Every responsible society has to be able to recognize this, and govern these enterprises properly for the sake of their own well-being, and the well-being of it's individuals. Calling it "entertaining" or "profitable" is NOT a reason to let these enterprises do as they please. They have to be governed and controlled for the well-being of society the same as any other individual or business enterprise must be. And of course opinions will vary. But it's not the opinions that matter, it's the damage done. And that's where the control needs to be focused.

How much regulation and control depends on how much damage these kinds of enterprises do, and how well that damage can be mitigated. Some may have to be banned all together, others may only need to be limited in access or altered in content. It depends of the enterprise in question and how it's deployed. But mostly it depends on the damage to people that it's causing.

 

[PureX]

I see it as the people have spoken. It's really not the governments say so.

Prohibition is a stellar example of that.

Sorry, but that's just silly. People need to be governed. That's why they create governments, and what they empower governments to do. It's the very purpose of government to say "no" to those things that people want to do that are harmful to them and to others. Like it or not you are not on this planet alone. And like it or not you are going to have to respect the needs and desires of those who are on this planet with you.

 

[Koldo]

Using the phrase "it's just entertainment" does not excuse nor mitigate the damage these greed-based commercial enterprises can cause. Every responsible society has to be able to recognize this, and govern these enterprises properly for the sake of their own well-being, and the well-being of it's individuals. Calling it "entertaining" or "profitable" is NOT a reason to let these enterprises do as they please. They have to be governed and controlled for the well-being of society the same as any other individual or business enterprise must be. And of course opinions will vary. But it's not the opinions that matter, it's the damage done. And that's where the control needs to be focused.

How much regulation and control depends on how much damage these kinds of enterprises do, and how well that damage can be mitigated. Some may have to be banned all together, others may only need to be limited in access or altered in content. It depends of the enterprise in question and how it's deployed. But mostly it depends on the damage to people that it's causing.

I don't take issue with regulating nor banning stuff when it is downright harmful. But on this case we are talking about harm caused by humans mistaking entertainment for education. At best we could ask the following disclaimer to be shown on porn movies: 'This is a work of fiction'.

 

[Koldo]

@PureX

By the way, it should be pointed out that being famous at a really young age did more harm to Billie than exposure to porn could ever accomplish.

 

[Flankerl]

I suspect that information, and porn, is shared at school (and elsewhere), such that parental controls might not be that effective, particularly when many adults won't be as knowledgeable as their kids as to computers and the internet.

Ignorance does not protect from punishment.

It's the parents fault that their children run around with smartphones without restrictions.
Simple as that.