So ... Billie Eilish ...

[PureX]

So, Billlie Eilish was on the Howard Stern Show last Tuesday and made some comments about pornography that are blowing up the internet. Unfortunately I cannot post the conversation in her own words because Howard Stern removed the video clip of it from YouTube, and from his own web page. Interestingly, he did not remove the 4 other video excerpts from that 2 hour interview; only the one about pornography. I also could not find an exact written excerpt from the interview, so I will have to post a truncated rewrite.

“As a woman, I think porn is a disgrace. I used to watch a lot of porn, to be honest. I started watching porn when I was like 11,” she said, telling Howard it helped her feel like “one of the guys.” “I think it really destroyed my brain and I feel incredibly devastated that I was exposed to so much porn.”

She frequently watched violent pornography, which she believes contributed to her suffering from sleep paralysis and night terrors. The “abusive” porn also led to problems in the bedroom once she was older and had become sexually active herself. “The first few times I, you know, had sex, I was not saying no to things that were not good. It was because I thought that’s what I was supposed to be attracted to,” Billie said.

“I’m so angry that porn is so loved, and I’m so angry at myself for thinking that it was okay,” she continued. “The way that vaginas look in porn is ****ing crazy. No vaginas look like that. Women’s bodies don’t look like that. We don’t come like that.”
​

I listened to the full interview, and so can say that a few key points have been left out, here. One is that Billie said she was a virgin when she began watching porn, and that she thought watching porn was how young people learned how to have sex. So that later, when she decided to become sexually active, she engaged in sexual behavior that was not appropriate, and not healthy, because it's what she thought she was supposed to do.

Also, I will add, that later in this long interview the subject of sexual abuse came up, and Billie made it clear that she, herself, had experienced what she defined as "statutory rape", and other very inappropriate sexual behavior on the part of men and boys, as a young teenage girl. She did not name names or give details. She did, however, talk about why she has not pressed legal charges. (Her own choice.)

We have had a number of threads on here about prostitution and pornography, and I know that most of you think it's all very well and good so long is it's "consenting". And I have received a lot of criticism in the past because I am not in favor of prostitution or pornography being legal (monetized).

I believe Billie's experiences with porn, and the damage it did to her are VERY commonplace (and so does she). She also mentions an alarming hyper-sexualization by young kids on TicToc who are apparently mimicking what they are seeing on porn sites to make themselves look "cool" and "grown up".

I have stated before and I will state again that pornography IS NOT ABOUT SEX. It's about MONEY. And more specifically, its about exploiting human sexuality, and all the confusion and selfishness that goes along with that, for monetary profit. The people producing porn and putting it on line do not care that children will see it and be significantly harmed by it. They do not care that you or I might be significantly harmed by it. All they want is MONEY. And they'll produce whatever sexually exploitive material they think will get them that money.

 

[anna.]

I agree with Billie and I agree with you.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I also agree with Billie, and I agree with you, PureX. Well said.

 

[PureX]

As we might expect, the reactions on line are INSANE, and are all over the map! But I appreciated this one ...

I didn't agree with the comments disparaging Howard Stern, here. I understand that his reputation is very sketchy, but he's a good interviewer and he was being very respectful to Billie about this subject, and throughout the whole interview. Also, where BETTER to bring this sort of thing up than on his show?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I think it's important to distinguish between the notion of consensual sex work and the current state of the porn industry. In my opinion, the former should be allowed and regulated, especially given that banning sex work has a track record of leading to underground abuse, exploitation, and human trafficking.

On the other hand, the status quo of the porn industry is indeed both disgraceful and highly exploitative. Without comprehensive sex education, proper restriction on minors' access to porn (which is a major issue right now), and sound regulation to ensure that abuse and exploitation are kept out of the industry, porn becomes a fertile ground for many problematic practices and propagates unhealthy stereotypes about sex and sexual behaviors.

Even properly regulated porn should never be available to children, though, so it's also useful to avoid dismissing the idea of consensual sex work altogether when the main problem in some cases is that children can access porn, not that porn exists in the first place.

As things stand, I think Billie Eilish's comments shed light on crucial issues currently plaguing the porn industry. However, I hope the majority of people listening to them don't use them as a reason to demonize all sex workers instead of focusing on the problematic aspects of the industry and discussing how to address them properly.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I don't understand those who defend the free availability of pornography, apart from the purely selfish aspect. It was never thus before the internet arrived, and unless one was living in la-la land, what is now available on the internet has just gone way beyond whatever was available before even when it was supposedly restricted to over 18s - as to common availability, that is. The advent of social media, with unenforced age limits of 13 or whatever is a joke, given that apparently much younger children are using this, along with the fact that these platforms are just not regulated in any meaningful fashion as to content. I posted this in another thread recently and other articles in a similar vein have appeared over recent years:

Warn children about porn earlier, teens say

Parents should to talk to children about online pornography and sexting as early as the age of eight or nine, young people say. The Children's Commissioner for England worked with a group of older teenagers to create a guide on how parents could best deal with sex-related issues. Studies suggest half of under-11s have seen pornography, so parents need to be ready to talk earlier, the panel said. Such tricky conversations need to start before children get phones, they said.

Children should get the sexual education they need and not necessarily one forced on them by circumstances.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

200,000 Americans are addicted to pornography, 40 million Americans regularly visit porn sites (source).

Also, 68% of Christian men (including pastors) are addicted to pornography.

Porn Addiction Statistics
The statistics for Christian men between 18 and 30 years old are particularly striking:

• 77 percent look at pornography at least monthly.
• 36 percent view pornography on a daily basis
• 32 percent admit being addicted to pornography (and another 12 percent think they may be).

The statistics for middle-aged Christian men (ages 31 to 49) are no less disturbing:

• 77 percent looked at pornography while at work in the past three months.
• 64 percent view pornography at least monthly.
• 18 percent admit being addicted to pornography (and another 8 percent think they may be).

Even married Christian men are falling prey to pornography and extramarital sexual affairs at alarming rates:

• 55 percent look at pornography at least monthly.
• 35 percent had an extramarital affair.

Source: Is Porn Addiction a Problem in Your Church?

 

[Debater Slayer]

200,000 Americans are addicted to pornography, 40 million Americans regularly visit porn sites (source).

Also, 68% of Christian men (including pastors) are addicted to pornography.

Porn Addiction Statistics
The statistics for Christian men between 18 and 30 years old are particularly striking:

• 77 percent look at pornography at least monthly.
• 36 percent view pornography on a daily basis
• 32 percent admit being addicted to pornography (and another 12 percent think they may be).

The statistics for middle-aged Christian men (ages 31 to 49) are no less disturbing:

• 77 percent looked at pornography while at work in the past three months.
• 64 percent view pornography at least monthly.
• 18 percent admit being addicted to pornography (and another 8 percent think they may be).

Even married Christian men are falling prey to pornography and extramarital sexual affairs at alarming rates:

• 55 percent look at pornography at least monthly.
• 35 percent had an extramarital affair.

Source: Is Porn Addiction a Problem in Your Church?

What do you think would be the best way to address porn addiction? Would banning porn be part of the solution?

 

[Samael_Khan]

So, Billlie Eilish was on the Howard Stern Show last Tuesday and made some comments about pornography that are blowing up the internet. Unfortunately I cannot post the conversation in her own words because Howard Stern removed the video clip of it from YouTube, and from his own web page. Interestingly, he did not remove the 4 other video excerpts from that 2 hour interview; only the one about pornography. I also could not find an exact written excerpt from the interview, so I will have to post a truncated rewrite.

“As a woman, I think porn is a disgrace. I used to watch a lot of porn, to be honest. I started watching porn when I was like 11,” she said, telling Howard it helped her feel like “one of the guys.” “I think it really destroyed my brain and I feel incredibly devastated that I was exposed to so much porn.”

She frequently watched violent pornography, which she believes contributed to her suffering from sleep paralysis and night terrors. The “abusive” porn also led to problems in the bedroom once she was older and had become sexually active herself. “The first few times I, you know, had sex, I was not saying no to things that were not good. It was because I thought that’s what I was supposed to be attracted to,” Billie said.

“I’m so angry that porn is so loved, and I’m so angry at myself for thinking that it was okay,” she continued. “The way that vaginas look in porn is ****ing crazy. No vaginas look like that. Women’s bodies don’t look like that. We don’t come like that.”
​

I listened to the full interview, and so can say that a few key points have been left out, here. One is that Billie said she was a virgin when she began watching porn, and that she thought watching porn was how young people learned how to have sex. So that later, when she decided to become sexually active, she engaged in sexual behavior that was not appropriate, and not healthy, because it's what she thought she was supposed to do.

Also, I will add, that later in this long interview the subject of sexual abuse came up, and Billie made it clear that she, herself, had experienced what she defined as "statutory rape", and other very inappropriate sexual behavior on the part of men and boys, as a young teenage girl. She did not name names or give details. She did, however, talk about why she has not pressed legal charges. (Her own choice.)

We have had a number of threads on here about prostitution and pornography, and I know that most of you think it's all very well and good so long is it's "consenting". And I have received a lot of criticism in the past because I am not in favor of prostitution or pornography being legal (monetized).

I believe Billie's experiences with porn, and the damage it did to her are VERY commonplace (and so does she). She also mentions an alarming hyper-sexualization by young kids on TicToc who are apparently mimicking what they are seeing on porn sites to make themselves look "cool" and "grown up".

I have stated before and I will state again that pornography IS NOT ABOUT SEX. It's about MONEY. And more specifically, its about exploiting human sexuality, and all the confusion and selfishness that goes along with that, for monetary profit. The people producing porn and putting it on line do not care that children will see it and be significantly harmed by it. They do not care that you or I might be significantly harmed by it. All they want is MONEY. And they'll produce whatever sexually exploitive material they think will get them that money.

Excellent points. Like alcohol and cigarettes, I think the existence of pornography does more harm than good. The industry should be done away with. I also think that instagram and tiktok are crazy outlets for softcore porn. A lot of women undergo often dangerous surgeries to shape their bodies into weird shapes for aesthetics sake. There is even a famous instagram model, Joseline Cano, who died on an operating table getting her butt made bigger through an operation, which had to be done illegally, and which happens often. Often times I wonder what these women are thinking, because they looked so beautiful before surgery and now look like unnatural plastic dolls.

The only problem with banning porn is, like the prohibition, that it would be an underground market which has no rules, which is dangerous for performers. Then it would probably give rise to sexual prudency and sexual repression. Maybe we should rather fix the cause.

 

[F1fan]

This is an issue I know little about. I heard about this young girl being addicted and porn ruining her brain. I'm not sure how big a problem it is for citizens of any age. It's apparent that young people today have access to a lot of things that they are not prepared for. Even the technology is something we humans are not prepared for. The USA is a nation that is lost between being totally open and free to having a lot of prohibitions. We are both highly invested in personal freedom and consequences, but also being highly restricted. Just look at how the USA, and some other nations, are dealing with Covid. Socially and legally we are in a huge "no man's land".

Porn seems to be another area where we as a society just let things happens to children (and adults) and we just expect to let the chips fall where they do. For those who suffer, too bad. Just bad luck. Harden the **** up.

The USA is an immature nation with pockets of wise and adjusted people. We seem like a society of "fend for yourselves, get what you can for yourself, and praise Jesus". A lot of it is confusing, and lacks any real coherent beliefs. Socially and politically we are lost, and I think most are in denial about it. We are busy being distracted and not spending time learning about ourselves and honing a coherent set of values.

 

[F1fan]

What do you think would be the best way to address porn addiction? Would banning porn be part of the solution?

I don't think prohibition helps at all. To my mind we need to help create more mature and balanced minds that can be exposed to negative things in life and be able to manage it. Protecting kids from hardship does not prepare them for dealing with the inevitable hardship in life.

Letting kids figure it out for themselves is dangerous. We need mature adults raising mature kids. And I don't think we have enough mature adults.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't view Billie as being any type of expert on porn. I think there are negative experiences, but porn isn't that destructive unless someone actually wants it to be.

Simply put, if one dosent approve or like it, then stay away.

Others do freely enjoy their sexuality weither it's for money or pleasure. Usually both as evidenced by the enormity of content created porn tubes out there and it helps those out who cannot access sex through normal channels due to things like deformity, ugliness, or other issues that's makes sex unavailable in a person's life. It serves a valid function and service aside from the enjoyment people actually get from it weither it's the admiration or revenues.

 

[greenboy21x]

I think porn is a disgrace.

100% agree with Billie here.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The people producing porn and putting it on line do not care that children will see it and be significantly harmed by it. They do not care that you or I might be significantly harmed by it. All they want is MONEY.

Do you think a similar generalization would be accurate if applied to, say, producers of R-rated movies (whether due to sexual content or other adult themes such as violence and gore) or store owners who sell alcohol? Since a lot of kids watch movies intended only for adults, and there is a lot of underage drinking.

I think trying to ensure that children don't access things that are inappropriate for their age group is a much more effective and reasonable way to address such issues than prohibiting something entirely.

 

[greenboy21x]

Do you think a similar generalization would be accurate if applied to, say, producers of R-rated movies (whether due to sexual content or other adult themes such as violence and gore) or store owners who sell alcohol? Since a lot of kids watch movies intended only for adults, and there is a lot of underage drinking.

False equivalence

 

[PureX]

Excellent points. Like alcohol and cigarettes, I think the existence of pornography does more harm than good. The industry should be done away with. I also think that instagram and tiktok are crazy outlets for softcore porn. A lot of women undergo often dangerous surgeries to shape their bodies into weird shapes for aesthetics sake. There is even a famous instagram model, Joseline Cano, who died on an operating table getting her butt made bigger through an operation, which had to be done illegally, and which happens often. Often times I wonder what these women are thinking, because they looked so beautiful before surgery and now look like unnatural plastic dolls.

The only problem with banning porn is, like the prohibition, that it would be an underground market which has no rules, which is dangerous for performers. Then it would probably give rise to sexual prudency and sexual repression. Maybe we should rather fix the cause.

My solution would not be to ban sex, or sexual imagery, but to ban sex and sexual imagery for money. Once greed is removed as the incentive, honest mutual consent will be restored. Consenting adults would remain free to have sex with whomever they chose, however they chose, and to photograph it if they chose, ... and to give the photos to whomever they like. But not for profit. That would eliminate nearly all the porn on-line, because it's almost all there for the money.

 

[Flankerl]

Long story short: Her parents, like so many parents nowadays, refused to actually parent her and so she got access to things she shouldn't have had access to.
Because of that she thinks it has screwed her brain up.

This is somehow the fault of the thing she illegally got access to, not the ones who didn't do their job.

She might need some more years in school.

 

[Kooky]

@PureX

Are you lumping in her being raped with her experiences in porn on purpose, or do you really not see a difference?

 

[PureX]

Do you think a similar generalization would be accurate if applied to, say, producers of R-rated movies (whether due to sexual content or other adult themes such as violence and gore) or store owners who sell alcohol? Since a lot of kids watch movies intended only for adults, and there is a lot of underage drinking.

If porn could be kept off line and in 'smut stores' it wouldn't pose nearly as big a problem. Same as with alcohol and some recreational drugs. But there is no reasonable way to control the internet the way we can control a physical commercial outlet. So I would be in favor of a total internet ban of porn.

I think trying to ensure that children don't access things that are inappropriate for their age group is a much more effective and reasonable way to address such issues than prohibiting something entirely.

It's not just about children gaining access. It's about the sexual degradation, exploitation, and abuse of adults, for money, too. Because when we "normalize" this behavior by allowing it to be promoted and sold for money, we are encouraging it in our social/sexual interactions. And I don't think that's something we ought to be doing.

 

[Flankerl]

So I would be in favor of a total internet ban of porn.

Wouldn't it be easier to ban everyone under 18 from the internet?