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So apparently this happened...

K

Krok

Active Member
Photonic said:
Senate panel OKs creationism teaching bill | 2012-01-26 | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com The US wonders why it is now a laughing stock in the scientific community, and people wonder why I want to move out of the US as soon as I finish my PhD.
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Hey, that Indiana bill won't pass the "seperation of religion from state" principle. The US is not that bad. Just a few maniacs who try to impose their religion on normal life! It happens everywhere (OK, there's more of them in the US than, Australia, the UK, Germany, etc. for example. But, percentage-wise, probably the same number of weirdos everywhere).
 
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M

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
Good for them, but I would have advised them to go the route of teaching the problems with evolution. However hopefully this will get some renewed discussion on the revelance of creation and science.
 
Kilgore Trout

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
The more public failures these people have, the better. It's good for people to see superstition and ignorance repeatedly shown for what it is. Every time misguided creationists try to overreach and fail, it solidifies creationism as quackery and dishonesty in the minds of the average person. Morons, such as fundamentalists, are their own worst enemy.
 
shawn001

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Man of Faith said:
Good for them, but I would have advised them to go the route of teaching the problems with evolution. However hopefully this will get some renewed discussion on the revelance of creation and science.
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They can have the discussion, but not in the science classes and teaching creationism or ID has already been ruled unconsitutional.
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I find the errors in the article funny.

Purdue University professor of chemistry John Staver told the panel evolution is the only theory of life's origins that relies on scientific investigations. He says creationism "is unquestionably a statement of a specific religion."
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No, it isn't a statement of a specific religion. Just above they properly defined creationism as the "belief that the Earth and its creatures were created by a deity." The majority of the world's religions have creation myths that tend to involve the hands of deities. It's not at all an endorsement of a specific religion, unless the teach only one religion's creation mythology. Supposing they taught creationism correctly, it would certainly cover multiple accounts of creation form the world's religions. I have no problem at all with schools going over creation mythology in this fashion in literature and arts classes; it's when certain groups try to pass it off as science (which it isn't) that I want to smack them upside the head.

Also Photonic, I know you probably weren't serious, but it makes me sad when fellow scientists say things like "I'm going to move out of this country because of its apparent idiocy." What we need is people like you and I to stay here not to jump ship. Scientists are awful at doing proper outreach to the general public. We need to get better at it. We're as much to blame for these sorts of things as the apparent idiocy we whine about.
 
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Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Quintessence said:
No, it isn't a statement of a specific religion. Just above they properly defined creationism as the "belief that the Earth and its creatures were created by a deity."
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OMG! For me that's what stuck out like a sore saint. Evolution has no quarrel with how the Earth came about. It only concerns itself with the evolution of species. Period. A better definition would be "A belief that a deity created all species as is."
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
It doesn't matter that there are many creation stories. We unfortunately know all too well that the ones pushing to have "Creationism" taught in schools are wanting to teach biblical "Creationism" as a viable and literal opposition to evolution. They aren't wanting it taught as the mythology and literature it is...they want it said it is not only just as viable as evolution, but that it makes more sense for everything to have come about that way than through evolution. :facepalm: You take the same people pushing for this and tell them "fine, we'll include your creation myth alongside all other religious creation myths in our Mythology course" and you'd see a big stink about it. Why? Because they're "special" :rolleyes:
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Skwim said:
OMG! For me that's what stuck out like a sore saint. Evolution has no quarrel with how the Earth came about. It only concerns itself with the evolution of species. Period. A better definition would be "A belief that a deity created all species as is."
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Huh. I guess I read creation of the Earth including creation of species by default. Mythological accounts of creation tend to include both of these together, though not always in the same narrative. Good catch. I'm not sure I'd follow the definition you propose, though, because it hedges out certain types of creation mythology (or interpretations of it). As Draka says, though, we know the folks pushing creationism in America are doing so for a specific breed of it: Biblical, literalistic creationism. I guess I'm just a nitpicker for clarity of communication sometimes. :p
 
gnomon

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Photonic said:
Senate panel OKs creationism teaching bill | 2012-01-26 | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com

The US wonders why it is now a laughing stock in the scientific community, and people wonder why I want to move out of the US as soon as I finish my PhD.
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Disquising nonsense behind the concept of every opinion is valid is a weak intellectual front. Bringing up mythical interpretations of the human origin is the same.

This crap doesn't belong in a science classroom. It doesn't matter which version of mythical creationism should be put forth in a science class. None of them are science. None of them inform us of our origins. None of them provide wisdom towards understanding our origins.
 
S

ScottySatan

Well-Known Member
If they want to tell two sides of the story and let the kids decide, then why don't they teach every creation story?
 
M

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
Heathen Hammer said:
What problems are those, pray tell?

lol
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If you are interested then you will have to learn them on your own. It won’t do any good for me to post them because I’ve been doing that for years and people just attack the source, they don’t look at the evidence critically. The schools won’t tell you the problem with it, they just teach what the science book says. Atheists won't tell you the problem with it because they have a vested interest in it being true. Most mainstream scientists won’t tell you the problems with it because they have a vested interest in maintaining a position of legitimacy because anyone who questions evolution is black listed and grants dry up.

That’s how the system works and how evolution is promoted, by bullying tactics, fear tactics, and public ridicule and scorn. Basically evolution is promoted by using long proven propaganda techniques.



 
Heathen Hammer

Heathen Hammer

Nope, you're still wrong
Man of Faith said:
If you are interested then you will have to learn them on your own. It won’t do any good for me to post them because I’ve been doing that for years and people just attack the source, they don’t look at the evidence critically. The schools won’t tell you the problem with it, they just teach what the science book says. Atheists won't tell you the problem with it because they have a vested interest in it being true. Most mainstream scientists won’t tell you the problems with it because they have a vested interest in maintaining a position of legitimacy because anyone who questions evolution is black listed and grants dry up.

That’s how the system works and how evolution is promoted, by bullying tactics, fear tactics, and public ridicule and scorn. Basically evolution is promoted by using long proven propaganda techniques.
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Actually, sir, I was being facetious, because there are no such problems, to speak of. I was simply challenging you to give valid scientific arguments against what is essentially the most researched and evidenced discipline in science; because I knew you have none to give. I have decades of experience in this argument and I know your side has no basis.

I offered my scorn because your position of creation has no evidence and no merit.

Tangentially I also find it funny you heap scorn on science because of grant money, when your creationist church spreads its lies and rakes in far more, tax free.
 
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