Slavery

[YoursTrue]

Don't gaslight me.

By the way, all of us are slaves in one way or another.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

By the way, all of us are slaves in one way or another.

I have no idea why you're telling me specifically that, but for what it's worth, I disagree.

 

[night912]

By the way, all of us are slaves in one way or another.

Who's your master?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I see you found some things hard to handle

The only thing hard to handle here, is watching a human being living in the 21st century in likely a secular country, trying to defend the practice of slavery and engaging in victim blaming.

Yes, that is hard to handle for me. It's even kind of depressing.

So you are trying to take the easy way out, and just accuse the opposition of being blind.

It's not the "easy way out". It's rather giving up trying to talk some sense into you.

That's okay. I already know you can't handle truth, and reason against your baseless opinions.

So, here's the thing. you have not shown that it is immoral to use criminals, and war prisoners, as laborers - your own laborers, whom you can sell to others as their laborers, and give to your sons, as their laborers.

On the other hand...
It was repeatedly shown on this thread, that those criminals, and enemies of war, were spared death, and in exchange for their life, either willingly or unwillingly served their captors for life.
There is no immorality there.

In fact they were treated better than they were worthy of being treated. far better than your government treat their captives,
Hence, many were glad - eager to serve the king.

Jehovah as king of the earth makes the rules over his domain.
You don't get to decide how he deals with criminals. Jehovah does.

You refused to say what your moral compass points to, in the case of war prisoners, so I can only conclude that your silence on this indicates that you would rather just argue for the sake of arguing, with no real basis, or reason for doing so.
That is understandable, for how can a man be reasonable when he just wants to be right, regardless of how unreasonable he may be,

Now you can fly away from the chess board, claiming victory, after you knocked down all the pieces and crapped all over the board. Feeling good about yourself.

Meanwhile, everyone who's engaging you on this topic is sick to their stomach as a result of the moral bankruptcy you exhibit here.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

By the way, all of us are slaves in one way or another.

In some abstract conceptual poetic / philosophical way, perhaps.
To pretend that that is the same as actual slavery is like a slap in the face of all those who have suffered from actual slavery.

Not that you people care about that.
You prefer denying all that suffering and pretend as if those slaves were super duper happy to be a slave.

I'ld challenge all of you to become my slave under biblical regulation.
But my moral compass doesn't allow it. Neither does the constitution of any developed country.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Some people don't see much in anything.

I totally understand that.

I understand that too.

Great. That's something.

Wrong quote? You didn't have in mind what you quoted?
That's odd.

No, YOU had the wrong quote. I gave you the quote that was actually under discussion.
And this is your "answer" to that.

That's a threat?
Like I said, everything is a threat to you, when one quotes the Bible. That's not my fault.
If it's a threat, perhaps you should call the cops and make a complaint.

Nope, everything is not a threat to me. Just threats about going to hell if you don't do what Gods want.

I think you guys are Biblephobic. Biting my tongue with a made up word.

Would you care to define this new word you've made up?
I'm not afraid of the Bible. I just don't think a lot of the things contained within it can be considered moral. Like slavery.

Says the one whose first words were, "It doesn't take much to amaze you, does it."

Yeah, because you made a big sarcastic comment about how amazed you are. You know the one where I JUST pointed out how you were getting snippy and rude.

You guys don't fool anyone with your pretense complaints.

I'm not trying to fool anyone. Just sharing my observations on our ongoing discussion.
If anything, the pretense is with you. You make some snide remark about soap operas to me in an to attempt to insult me and now you turn around and start talking about how you're not buying my "pretense complaints" when I point it out. And on top of that, you're admonishing me for replying in kind to your sarcastic comment! Get out of here with that.

What I said is no where near insulting. It is simply saying that you are emotional about this.
If every time someone says something they think is the case, it has to be an insult, then you are guilty of insulting, when you say anyone is a fanatic, fundamental, irrational, etc.
So I suggest you stop pretending to be so saintly. It doesn't fool anyone. It only entertains skeptics like yourself, who try to fool yourself, "we are so better than Christians." Please.

Implying that I'm not paying full attention because I'm too busy watching soap operas was was your way of saying that I'm "emotional about this?"
Get out of here with that too. It doesn't even make sense.

I don't think I'm better than Christians. Most of my family members and many friends are Christians. I am not better than them. But then again, they don't advocate for slavery and blame victims of rape for being attacked. Notice how I have pointed out several times now, that all Christians do not think or believe the same things? Does that sound to you like someone who is trying to paint all Christians as terrible people? Be honest.

This is all just projection from you anyway. A few posts before this one you tried to paint atheists as bad people and failed. Please stop projecting your failings onto me.

Me. Upset?
There you go with that pretense again. LOL. This is hilarious.
How much more desperate can one get.

What I find in such discussions as these is that when a person starts in on the insults and rudeness, they're generally the one that is getting desperate with the conversation.

You are the smart one. Figure it out. I am not interested, in repeating what is fairly simple.

You're not interested in clarifying your position? Great. I guess we're done then, since that's what goes on here.

We go way back Skeptic. This is not the first nor the last time repeating things in various ways, does noting to improve your understanding.
You seem to like people to keep repeating though. Perhaps it's because you think too highly of yourself, in relation to intelligence..

And another attempt at a rude comment. Awesome. Keep 'em coming. As noted above, it exposes your desperation.

Notice how there are several of us that have walked away from your posts with the same impression? Perhaps you are not explaining what you think your position is as clearly as you think, if you're contention is that we are all the ones in error here and just don't understand. But then again, as you said right above this, you're "not interested" in further explaining/clarifying your position. What do you expect then?

 

[YoursTrue]

I have no idea why you're telling me specifically that, but for what it's worth, I disagree.

Lol so you're not a slave to your body and its needs, is that it? Food isn't usually dropping into your lap, is it? (Never mind...)

 

[YoursTrue]

Who's your master?

Maybe you think you're your own master? (By the way, consider that the answer to your question.)

 

[nPeace]

@TagliatelliMonster the evidence shows you lost the argument with your baseless biased opinions.
What was the evidence? Your running away from responding to a post, with the excuse that you are arguing sensibly, and the person isn't, and you are done.
Yet you return after (you don't have to face the arguments that demonstrate you have no argument) to just make more baseless assertions, and try to comfort yourself with the false assertion about morals.
Who cares about morals that are just the opinions of ungodly people? Not me. ... and I am sure most people couldn't care less about your "morals"... whatever they are.
They are simply your subjective opinions that change to suit you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

@TagliatelliMonster the evidence shows you lost the argument with your baseless biased opinions.
What was the evidence? Your running away from responding to a post, with the excuse that you are arguing sensibly, and the person isn't, and you are done.
Yet you return after (you don't have to face the arguments that demonstrate you have no argument) to just make more baseless assertions, and try to comfort yourself with the false assertion about morals.
Who cares about morals that are just the opinions of ungodly people? Not me. ... and I am sure most people couldn't care less about your "morals"... whatever they are.
They are simply your subjective opinions that change to suit you.

Who cares about morals that are the opinions of people who lived thousands of years ago in a society very far removed from the ones we currently live in? People who think things like slavery are moral?

 

[Tambourine]

Thus for women who put themselves in these positions, they may be creating the circumstances which are inviting to these 'rapists', and in that sense sharing some responsibility.
Do you disagree with any of this?

I like that you use the conjunctive form here because what you are suggesting is literally the opposite of reality.

By the way, all of us are slaves in one way or another.

What an utterly nonsensical claim.

 

[Deeje]

I like that you use the conjunctive form here because what you are suggesting is literally the opposite of reality.

I would like to take you up on that point....
When people are seeking a sexual partner for what is often a one night stand, there is no real commitment in the relationship....it’s all physical, based on lust, not love. When there is no emotional attachment and the woman has given all the right signals to the man that sex will result from the encounter, and at the last moment she reneges......some men will get angry and take what they came for by force....turning a mutual physical encounter into an act of violence and retribution. When you have no morals, anything can happen. We are not animals.

If people put themselves in that position, then both have to accept their part of responsibility in the outcome.

Following the Bible’s moral standards will mean that no one is ever put in that position to start with.

What an utterly nonsensical claim.

LOL....so people are not slaves to their bosses? Not slaves to the commercial system? Not slaves to traditions? Not slaves to fashion? Not slaves to the pharmaceutical industry? The food industry?......etc, etc.....open your eyes.

 

[Tambourine]

I would like to take you up on that point....
When people are seeking a sexual partner for what is often a one night stand, there is no real commitment in the relationship....it’s all physical, based on lust, not love. When there is no emotional attachment and the woman has given all the right signals to the man that sex will result from the encounter, and at the last moment she reneges......some men will get angry and take what they came for by force....turning a mutual physical encounter into an act of violence and retribution.

I'm sure this all makes a lot of sense inside your own head, but it has very little to do with how most rape cases go down in reality.

1. It doesn't actually matter how the woman is dressed.

2. Most rapists tend to be people from a woman's circle of acquaintances, very often friends, friends of the family, or ex boyfriends. One of the most common constellations is a woman victimized by an ex boyfriend or ex husband who can't take the hint.

3. Men generally don't tend to be violent and aggressive when they're in love with someone, but when they're either jealous and possessive, or otherwise in need of exercizing power over others.

LOL....so people are not slaves to their bosses?

No?

Not slaves to the commercial system?

No?

Not slaves to traditions?

No?

Not slaves to fashion?

No again?

Not slaves to the pharmaceutical industry?

Still no?

The food industry?

Nope, sorry.

......etc, etc.....open your eyes.

How very funny.

 

[Deeje]

I'm sure this all makes a lot of sense inside your own head, but it has very little to do with how most rape cases go down in reality.

I was not talking about every case of rape. As I have mentioned many times, rape is a crime that should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

I am talking about what is often called "date rape". These 'dates' often have the expectation of sex as the culmination of the evening. When the sex is not forthcoming, a man can get angry and turn the date into an excuse for revenge when his expectations are not met.

1. It doesn't actually matter how the woman is dressed.

According to scripture, it matters a lot. If you dress like a hooker, men expect you to behave like one...but they don't want to pay for the privilege if they can get it for nothing. Why do hookers dress provocatively? Surely this is not news to you?

2. Most rapists tend to be people from a woman's circle of acquaintances, very often friends, friends of the family, or ex boyfriends. One of the most common constellations is a woman victimized by an ex boyfriend or ex husband who can't take the hint.

Yes, rape is an act of violence and domination.
The strange thing about sex is that it creates a bond with those who share intimacy. The Bible calls it becoming "one flesh" and sometimes it is hard to break that bond even if only one partner shares it. They have a sense of that person 'belonging' to them. They can't tolerate the thought of them becoming "one flesh" with anyone else.
Where do you suppose jealousy and feelings of betrayal come from?

3. Men generally don't tend to be violent and aggressive when they're in love with someone, but when they're either jealous and possessive, or otherwise in need of exercizing power over others.

I agree, which is why the Bible promotes monogamy....a lasting bond made with two committed individuals who love each other and whose relationship will not easily be broken apart.

It also prevents sexually transmitted diseases, unwanted pregnancy leading to abortion, and children growing up with less than optimal role models and broken family relationships. Welcome to today's world....

 

[SkepticThinker]

I would like to take you up on that point....
When people are seeking a sexual partner for what is often a one night stand, there is no real commitment in the relationship....it’s all physical, based on lust, not love. When there is no emotional attachment and the woman has given all the right signals to the man that sex will result from the encounter, and at the last moment she reneges......some men will get angry and take what they came for by force....turning a mutual physical encounter into an act of violence and retribution. When you have no morals, anything can happen. We are not animals.

And we can all agree that a man being angry and raping a woman "by force" because he didn't get what he was expecting is immoral and wrong, correct?

If people put themselves in that position, then both have to accept their part of responsibility in the outcome.

So just how much responsibility should a rape victim hold for being raped? Should we lock up rape victims to for being so darn tempting?

This is gross.

Following the Bible’s moral standards will mean that no one is ever put in that position to start with.

Not if it helps perpetuate misogynistic and antiquated tropes or myths about rape.

LOL....so people are not slaves to their bosses? Not slaves to the commercial system? Not slaves to traditions? Not slaves to fashion? Not slaves to the pharmaceutical industry? The food industry?......etc, etc.....open your eyes.

No, they're not. And they're definitely not the type of chattel slaves that the Bible describes.

Several posters have already been over this Deeje. Our bosses don't own us as property.
Notice how you had to get all metaphorical here? Slaves to fashion?? Come on. Get serious.

 

[night912]

Maybe you think you're your own master? (By the way, consider that the answer to your question.)

In other words, I'm not a slave. Got it.

But I'm not asking me, since I already know that I'm not a slave. I was asking you. So the question still stands, who is your master that has enslaved you?

 

[night912]

@TagliatelliMonster the evidence shows you lost the argument with your baseless biased opinions.
What was the evidence? Your running away from responding to a post, with the excuse that you are arguing sensibly, and the person isn't, and you are done.
Yet you return after (you don't have to face the arguments that demonstrate you have no argument) to just make more baseless assertions, and try to comfort yourself with the false assertion about morals.
Who cares about morals that are just the opinions of ungodly people? Not me. ... and I am sure most people couldn't care less about your "morals"... whatever they are.
They are simply your subjective opinions that change to suit you.

It's always funny when a person accuses someone doing thing they are doing in the very same post that they made the accusation. And the whole time they're trying to act all innocent. Just because they can fool themselves, they think that that goes for everyone else.

 

[thomas t]

If you dress like a hooker, men expect you to behave like one...but they don't want to pay for the privilege if they can get it for nothing. Why do hookers dress provocatively? Surely this is not news to you?

we talked rape... then you came up mentioning hookers.
Do you think prostitutes deserve rape? No they do not! Regardless of how they dress!
They certainly act in a manner they could attract attention.... but they never dress up to get raped, of course.

if they can get it for nothing.

...using violence, which is a crime, Deeje?

 

[night912]

I am talking about what is often called "date rape". These 'dates' often have the expectation of sex as the culmination of the evening. When the sex is not forthcoming, a man can get angry and turn the date into an excuse for revenge when his expectations are not met.

Expectations has nothing to do with consensual sex. Having a dinner and a movie date at home has no expectations of sex, and yet, "date rape" can still occur.

According to scripture, it matters a lot. If you dress like a hooker, men expect you to behave like one...but they don't want to pay for the privilege if they can get it for nothing. Why do hookers dress provocatively? Surely this is not news to you?

Sorry, but just because you have that idea in your head, it doesn't mean that's how it is. First and foremost, you're not a man, just because you want to have sex so you decided to dress provocatively, it doesn't mean that men automatically want to have sex with you. The flaw in your reasoning is that, not everyone who dressed like that ends up having sex at the end of the night.

Here's an advice from a man to a woman, dressing like that isn't a guarantee that you are going to get laid.

Another advice, if someone wants to have sex and are willing to rape another to get it, that person is not going to care about how somebody is dressed. Just because you prefer to dressed conservatively, it doesn't mean that you can't and/or won't be a rape victim. So yea, it's not the victim's fault. And I am talking about victims, regardless of their gender.

 

[Father Heathen]

I had no idea this thread was still going. People are that passionate about defending rape and slavery; two of the most sick, twisted, and heinous things that you could do to another human being?
Their "faith" has stripped them of their humanity and are nothing more than mindless automatons.