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Featured Slavery

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by nPeace, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    You want me to demonstrate that owning slaves is moral? Why didn't you say that in the first place?
    Give me 24 hours. i have to go back to the beginning of the thread, and step you through the parts you probably were scrolling through while watching "Days of Our Lives". LOL.
    Oh dear me. LOL laughter is good for the soul. :grinning:

    Many people think that. The alarm has been going off, but they are snoozing, and snoring.. loudly.
    Have you ever wanted to travel to Grenada, Guyana, the Bahamas? Go freely. Why, you are living free on planet earth. LOL.

    Did you hear yourself? You said you were a Christian. Didn't you?
    One question. Did you ever go preaching the good news of the kingdom, to your neighbors, in order to make disciples?
    I rest my case.

    Brushing what off, ma'am?

    Your misunderstanding, or lack of. or were you just feigning ignorance?
     
  2. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    o_O Oh. It's funny alright. :laughing:
     
  3. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Hmm? What if they drugged me first? What are you kidding? Yes, I think you must be -- anyway -- all I can really say at this point is: have a good evening.
     
  4. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    So now... you don't want to agree with Deeje that a rapist is "led on" by the woman?
    But you formulated your own stance concerning rape here:
    So you referred to her as to show that you agree with her stance towards rape... and you define that, according to you, it is the victim that makes their rapists "sick with desire".

    Now that's blame shifting. You blame the victim of having made her perpetrator "sick with desire".
    So that's creating an excuse for the perpetrator, I think. He was purportedly "sick with desire" - made sick, according to you.

    Your opinion as laid out above and her notion of a rapist purportedly being "led on" by the woman... are one and the same, I think. It's Jehova Witnesses teaching.

    One more thing: As I understand #154, Deeje formulated a duty of a rape victim - and she did so by citing you. You then agreed twice with her (in #199 and in #268).

    However, formulating duties for a victim is an ingredient that's fundamental to the blame shifting, as I see it. If the victim does not comply with these standards or mandatory rules for assault victims made up by Jehova Witnesses... then, as a consequence, the victim could be criticized as opposed to the perpetrator who needs to be criticized more than the victim.


    now some standard answers:
    this is getting personal, I think. Don't call me names.
    I wasn't deceitful.
    I wasn't dishonest or "mighty dishonest", I think.
    I also don't "have a way of bending the truth, and twisting it to fit a deceitful scheme". I am not guilty of slander.
    I am not trying to manipulate, by taking a few words out of context.
    I wasn't disingenuous.
    I don't resort to a "vendetta" nor to "an attempted smear campaign".
     
    #324 thomas t, Sep 24, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  5. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    A slave can not quit.
    An employee can.

    I'm amazed that you even try to argue this point.

    Yes true.

    No slave has freedom, as a slave can't quit. And this goes for both hebrew as non-hebrew slaves.
    As it says in the bible: after X amount of time, the hebrew slave will be set free.

    You don't need to be set free if you are already free.
    Prisoners (and slaves) can be set free. Free people are already free.

    Again false. I can quit my job and if I feel like it, I can even quit my country and migrate elsewhere. I can even change my nationality.


    Again, I don't know where you work, but I advice you to quit and report your boss.

    Exodus 21

    20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.


    So according to your bible, one can beat a slave to the brink of death. Literally.
    Since the slave is his property.


    Only because you are obviously in denial.

    Exodus 21

    20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.


    You were the one that brought up a boss asking an employee to do something dishonest.

    Just replying to what you yourself have said:

    You do what he says ... in line with his work requirements, and even if they go out of line (for example, asking you to do something dishonest, lie), you have the choice of "or else"... whatever you choose.
    It is the same with every boss.


    You quoted a scripture yes. And you cherry picked it in an attempt to support your point, while completely ignoring all other scripture that doesn't.


    Slaves that are purchased don't have a choice in the matter. Nowhere does it say that the slave gets to decide who buys them and for what purpose. When slaves are inherited by off spring, nowhere does it say that the slave has a say in the matter. The slave's will is completely disregarded.
    This is all stuff that you are adding to what is actually written.


    I don't need to. The Bible says it.
    You can keep ignoring it, or denying it. Doesn't matter to me.


    Leviticus 25

    44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.


    No mention of asking for the slave's opinion.

    Because I actually have a moral compass which informs me that human beings aren't merchandise.
     
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  6. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    No, they aren't.



    I'm done with this. Clearly you are so blinded by your religious doctrine that you are unable to think rationally. There's not much point in continuing this discussion. You have sacrificed your human dignity and your moral compass, all just to be a sycophant to some primitive, barbaric, homophobic, iron age idea.

    So sad to watch.
     
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  7. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Really? Where did you get that piece of information? Off the top of your head, and are you just saying it because it's easy to say?
    Actually, the word slave existed long before our modern era. That's why it's in the Torah.
    The original-language words rendered “slave” or “servant” are not limited in their application to persons owned by others. The Hebrew word ʽeʹvedh can refer to persons owned by fellowmen. (Genesis12:16; Exodus 20:17) Or the term can designate subjects of a king (2 Samuel11:21; 2 Chronicles10:7), subjugated peoples who paid tribute (2 Samuel 8:2, 6), and persons in royal service, including cup-bearers, bakers, seamen, military officers, advisers, and the like, whether owned by fellowmen or not (Genesis 40:20; 1 Samuel 29:3; 1 Kings 9:27; 2 Chronicles 8:18; 9:10; 32:9).
    You can read more here, for further enlightenment.

    I think you need to read the Bible properly. The slaves were laborers, workers, and I don't know what history you were reading. Perhaps 19th century.
    Maybe providing a link to that history, would help.

    I'm just ignoring all the frivolous bit, and only considering what's meaningful to the thread.

    From the beginning - the OP, I specifically said God allowed slavery.
    Are you using condoned in a different way to allowed? Please confirm, so that I can address it. Thanks.

    Now that you are being so absolutely rude and not interested in civil debate, I will be reporting your post, and putting you on ignore. Goodbye.
     
  8. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    "One gets used to the denial and lying,"
    Yes, I can see that from your post here.
     
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I see you found some things hard to handle So you are trying to take the easy way out, and just accuse the opposition of being blind.
    That's okay. I already know you can't handle truth, and reason against your baseless opinions.

    So, here's the thing. you have not shown that it is immoral to use criminals, and war prisoners, as laborers - your own laborers, whom you can sell to others as their laborers, and give to your sons, as their laborers.

    On the other hand...
    It was repeatedly shown on this thread, that those criminals, and enemies of war, were spared death, and in exchange for their life, either willingly or unwillingly served their captors for life.
    There is no immorality there.

    In fact they were treated better than they were worthy of being treated. far better than your government treat their captives,
    Hence, many were glad - eager to serve the king.

    Jehovah as king of the earth makes the rules over his domain.
    You don't get to decide how he deals with criminals. Jehovah does.

    You refused to say what your moral compass points to, in the case of war prisoners, so I can only conclude that your silence on this indicates that you would rather just argue for the sake of arguing, with no real basis, or reason for doing so.
    That is understandable, for how can a man be reasonable when he just wants to be right, regardless of how unreasonable he may be,
     
  10. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    There's no need for a false witness to take the stand, the bible can defend itself all on its own.

    Exodus 21
    18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed:

    19 If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.

    20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

    21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

    Yep, the law of your bible stands. See, that's why I stick with the bible on how it treats its slaves.

    Employee
    quits - Boss hits employee, boss pays him for his time spent healing.

    Slave (tries to)quits - Master beats slave, slave sleeps in bed with an aching body , master sits back in his house sipping his cup of wine, with a happy smile because he's free from guilt and cannot be punished

    What the potential of religion can do to someone, they're willing to lose their integrity just to defend an immoral teaching from their religion. Sad indeed.
     
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  11. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    As far as I can see, you are determined in your smear campaign against JWs - twisting their words out of context.
    That is nothing there. I can see of value to this thread - nor truth to your claims, so if you are here only for that purpose, i won't be encouraging you, and I hope @Hockeycowboy sees your posts for what they are, and don't engage you either.

    You are free to continue with your entertainment for those whose side you obviously are on.
    Take care, and goodbye.
     
  12. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    no that's not a smear campaign against Jehova Witnesses. I didn't twist words out of context.

    I'm concerned about Jesus's reputation among non-believers. And when you try to sell JW teachings with regard to human rights... as biblical, I say no to it.

    Thomas
     
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  13. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    Oh, is this the part where you just turn completely rude? How exciting.
    You know, your rudeness is more telling than you know. ;)

    Many people think that because it is reality.
    Nobody owns me as property.
    Does someone own you as property? You should have then arrested.

    I did spread the good news to the best of my abilities, actually, as dictated by 1 Peter 3:15.
    What's that got to do with anything?
    Oh right, nothing.

    Notice how you didn't address my point. Like, at all.

    Instead you took the time to try out another snide remark. Again, very telling about you and your arguments. ;)

    The Point.
    You did it here too.

    Great excuse. ;)
     
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  14. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    Why would I be kidding?

    That's exactly what Bill Cosby did.
     
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  15. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Not from a JW website that attempts to decieve others. But, I'm not going to dismiss the evidence, it was my intention all along for you to present it anyway.

    Sorry, but you probably mistook your own reflection from your screen thinking that I have the same mindset as you.

    I was just saying it to get you to actually present some kind of evidence, knowingly that it'll backfire on you. And it worked. After having several discussions with someone, eventually I can understand that person, where they are coming from and how to approach them. So then, how does one approach an irrational person who make claims and without presenting evidence? I tried a different approach, instead of making a rebuttal with evidence, all I did was make a "claim."

    TagliatelliMonster was being modest for your blunder with him. But unfortunately for you, I won't be this time. I went fishing, literally and figuratively, I'm still out fishing right now. Haven't gotten a real fish yet, but suddenly it was hook line and sinker, I got myself a virtual fish.

    You're not entirely wrong. It existed before the modern era, but not during the time the Torah was written. The obvious clue is how it was being used in the scripture.

    And here's where it happens, the backfire.

    Actually "slave" was limited to that.

    Definition of slave | Dictionary.com
    noun
    Slave

    a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.

    ORIGIN OF SLAVE
    1250–1300; Middle English sclave<Medieval Latin sclāvus (masculine), sclāva (feminine) slave, special use of SclāvusSlavic, so called because Slavs were commonly enslaved in the early Middle Ages; see Slav

    The difference in our sources? Yours is from a JW website that clearly shows its deceitful motives. ie. Starts off with "original language" but not once did it talked about the origin of the word, "slave."

    ʽeʹvedh - was the word that was talked about. And guess what? It means both. And that's what I, and the other people in this discussion, who you were also dodging, raised this point. You're the one who was in denial and refused to accept that it was also, "property" of another. Like what I said in post #314 the bible, if you're lacking in reading comprehension skills and just being dishonest, you would know when "servitude," a paid employee, was being used and when. "slave," someone with less to no rights who's owned as property by someone else.

    Correct. That was one of the definition that was used. And none of us denied any of that. The king's subjects, those who paid taxes. Gotcha. One time in history, there were some people who started a rebellion that turned into a war, paying taxes to a king thousands of miles away was one of the reasons why it happened. But since you did go pick some cherries again, here's another example. The was time known as Feudal Japan when the feudal lords, known as daiymos, who had to pay tribute for the Shogun, the one who ruled the country at the time. And obviously military officers, in fact, there's at least one chapter in the bible that told us soldiers got paid. Gold was one of them, after it was purified through the sacred fire, of course. Then probably the most valued payment, a pretty and young :hearteyes:virgin girl:hearteyes: that was forced into marriage.
     
    #335 night912, Sep 24, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
  16. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    So after shown to being wrong so many times, all the frustrations and anger must of been too much resulting in there being noPeace left inside his head. Was that the reason for leaving?

    I guess after failing to paint a bad picture of Thomas and then this, is too much for nPeace. Like I always say, "It doesn't matter how many punches you can throw, what's important is how many punches you can take and still able to get up."

    ***NOTE*** regarding nPeace ***NOTE**
    It makes no difference even if you put me on "ignore." My goal wasn't like yours and tried desperately to win a debate. It's about sharing knowledge from both sides resulting in better understanding. It wasn't just so I could beat you in the debate, not like there was any challenge.
     
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  17. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    You dodge my previous post, so I'll do it again. With all this, do you know what it means? Is it that you do know the meaning but just being irrational and being contradictory? Or your ego is getting in the way? Lying? Please confirm

    Denial isn't the body of water in Egypt that the bible said Moses led his people across.


    :shrug:


    This is something from another thread that I posted.

     
  18. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    Denial isn't the body of water in Egypt that the bible said Moses led his people across.



    This is something from another thread that I posted.

     
  19. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Don't gaslight me.
     
  20. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    And so???? Your point is ridiculous. I was first going to say 'not well taken,' but then I decided it is ridiculous.
     
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