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Skepticism in research and discoveries in science

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
There are discoveries and research in science all the time and increasing as time passes. Peer review, is the first standard of evaluating new science and repeating researchand new discoveries from different sources is the second and most important way evaluate research and discoveries. This thread will deal with the primary sciences, geology, paleontology, genetics that involve the history of our physical existence, evolution and abiogenesis. Skepticism and questioning are motivated by those who desire to keep science honest.

The following is an example of the claim of a discovery that motivated skepticism questioning the claim:

Paleontologists Debate Whether New Research Found Signs of DNA in Dinosaur Fossil | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine

Paleontologists Debate Whether New Research Found Signs of DNA in Dinosaur Fossil
The fossils are several times older than the theoretical maximum shelf life of DNA molecules
2020_march6_dinos.jpg

Reconstruction of the nesting ground of Hypacrosaurus stebingeri from the Two Medicine formation of Montana. In the center can be seen a deceased Hypacrosaurus nestling with the back of its skull embedded in shallow waters. A mourning adult is portrayed on the right. (©Science China Press, Art by Michael Rothman)
By Theresa Machemer
SMITHSONIANMAG.COM
MARCH 6, 2020
National Science Review takes a close look at skull shards that would have been made of soft cartilage, instead of bone, in the young dinosaurs. The discovery is small in size, but hugely controversial among paleontologists: what appears to be microscopic cells, the building blocks of complex life, with dark clumps in the middle. A zoomed-in look at one possible cell’s dark spot reveals what the researchers suspect is genetic material.

Study author Alida Bailleul, a paleontologist at the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing, first found the microscopic orbs in 2010 while a student at the Museum of the Rockies, and quickly recognized their resemblance to cells. “I freaked out a little bit—moving away from the microscope, thinking, moving back to the microscope,” she tells Michael Greshko at National Geographic. “I was like, Oh my god, that can’t be, there’s nothing else they can be!”

2020_march6_cells.jpg

Photographs of the suspected cells in the nestling's skull fragment. On the left, it appears that two cells are dividing, and the dark region resembles a cell nucleus, where DNA is stored. In the middle, what appears like strands of DNA. On the right, dye fluoresces red indicating chemicals like DNA. (©Science China Press, Photo by Alida Bailleul and Wenxia Zheng)
After getting a second opinion from Mary Schweitzer, a paleontologist at North Carolina State University and first author on the paper, the team moved forward analyzing their find. It was surprising because tiny structures like cells and DNA—the molecular twisted-ladder that carries a cell's blueprint—are notoriously fragile. High heat or acidity can destroy them, and so they require a lot of upkeep while an animal is alive, and when it dies, the delicate bits are at the whims of the environment.

If the researchers have found fossilized cells and DNA, they would be several tens of times older than both any found before, and the theoretical preservation limits of the materials, paleontologist Evan Saitta, who works at the Integrative Research Center at the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago, explains to George Dvorsky at Gizmodo.

Cartilage lacks pores, so Bailleul and her colleages suggest that it may have defended the microscopic structures from the outside environment, the researchers say.

“Fossilized, calcified cartilage may be an ideal place to search for exceptionally preserved biomolecules in other fossils, as this tissue may be less prone to contamination and internal decay than bone,” Royal Ontario Museum paleontologist David Evans, who wasn’t involved in the new study, tells National Geographic. “In calcified cartilage, the cells become trapped and isolated in their matrix and are more likely to be preserved in a sealed micro-environment.”

To check their find, the researchers applied a dye to the fossils that sticks to DNA and fluoresces red. Then, they dyed living emu cells and compared the two. Although it was much fainter than the dye in the emu's cells, the fossil's dye stuck to something.

“I’m not even willing to call it DNA because I’m cautious, and I don’t want to overstate the results,” Schweitzer tells National Geographic. “There is something in these cells that is chemically consistent with and responds like DNA.”
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
My skepticism is that it is likely these are fossil carbon imprints or remnants of genetic material and are no longer genetic material. This is similar to claims of the existence blood calls in dinosaur fossils, but were only hematite fossil remnants of what was blood cells.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
One of the best features of real science and scientists is a degree of humility about findings. The concluding paragraph of the OP is a great illustration of this:

“I’m not even willing to call it DNA because I’m cautious, and I don’t want to overstate the results,” Schweitzer tells National Geographic. “There is something in these cells that is chemically consistent with and responds like DNA.”
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
My skepticism is that it is likely these are fossil carbon imprints or remnants of genetic material and are no longer genetic material. This is similar to claims of the existence blood calls in dinosaur fossils, but were only hematite fossil remnants of what was blood cells.

I guess time will tell...
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
This is an air ball without substance.

True, actually. I haven't added anything here.

My thoughts are simply that they'll either be able to determine this is actual genetic material or they won't. My thoughts on it...or even your educated guess on it...won't change that.

Not that I see discussion or supposition on this as problematic, but these basically unique situations are almost impossible to judge from a distance.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I am a scientist, and published in science journals.
Even Einstein could not accept Quantum Mechanics. So your skepticism is understandable because you have prejudiced views (Being a Bahai, it requires you to accept the existence of 'On God' and his 'mirror image', Bahaollah).
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Even Einstein could not accept Quantum Mechanics. So your skepticism is understandable because you have prejudiced views (Being a Bahai, it requires you to accept the existence of 'On God' and his 'mirror image', Bahaollah).

I dis agree with your statement concerning Einstein.

Actually based on the extreme bias of your views you distort my views on God and religion, which are NOT topic of this thread. Maybe changing the topic is your way of expressing your discomfort concerning the subject.

Nonetheless your beliefs have severly prejudiced any dialogue.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Even Einstein could not accept Quantum Mechanics. So your skepticism is understandable because you have prejudiced views (Being a Bahai, it requires you to accept the existence of 'On God' and his 'mirror image', Bahaollah).

Not the subject of the thread, but again Baha'u'llah is not the 'mirror image' of God.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
OK. So not that, but what exactly is he, and does he have any special relationship with Allah? So many people put their rants on internet forums, blogs, facebook, yahoo or Google groups, etc. Since Bahaollah was born before the age of internet, why should not we consider his writings as his rants?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
OK. So not that, but what exactly is he, and does he have any special relationship with Allah? So many people put their rants on internet forums, blogs, facebook, yahoo or Google groups, etc. Since Bahaollah was born before the age of internet, why should not we consider his writings as his rants?

Yes, so many like you; 'So many people put their rants on internet forums, blogs, facebook, yahoo or Google groups, etc. with acrid vindictive attacks on the Baha'i Faith. The Baha'is simply describe what they belive and make an effort to correct misinformation from hostile sources like you.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The Baha'is simply describe what they belive and make an effort to correct misinformation from hostile sources like you.
There is a reason why people are hostile to Bahai faith - because Bahai faith is hostile to all the other religions of the world.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
There is a reason why people are hostile to Bahai faith - because Bahai faith is hostile to all the other religions of the world.

Don't blame your hostility on anyone else but your religious agenda. That would be true of anyone who has a hostile agenda against any other belief system. The Baha'is believe what the Baha'is believe, and you have a distinct habit of misrepresenting Baha'i beliefs and called you on it.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It is the tradition of the Abrahamic religions that they will find fault with those which preceded or followed them. Christianity found faults in Judaism and later in Islam, Islam found faults in Christianity and later in Bahais, Bahais find faults in Islam and later in Ahmadiyyas. So carry on your tradition, no one is surprised.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
It is the tradition of the Abrahamic religions that they will find fault with those which preceded or followed them. Christianity found faults in Judaism and later in Islam, Islam found faults in Christianity and later in Bahais, Bahais find faults in Islam and later in Ahmadiyyas. So carry on your tradition, no one is surprised.

. . . and you pass it on with an aggressive vindictive assault on the Baha'i Faith, no one is surprised. Finding faults? This is a rather mild disagreement you are describing compared to your venomous assault For example: The fact that in many Islamic countries the Baha'i Faith is illegal and to be a Baha'i is punishable by death, and the Baha'i are widely persecuted. Is this finding fault with the Baha'i Faith?

You are in a glass house chucking boulders. I would like you to cite the Baha'is making an assault on what other people believe in the manner you do.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
What Bahais say about Krishna, Jesus or Mohammad is exactly that.

Yes, Baha'is disagree so what?. Many Christians not only disagree, but the consider Krishna, Baha'u'llah and Muhammad evil, and Muslims consider the Baha'i Faith evil, many Muslims consider Buddhists and Hindus idol worshipers, and some destroyed Buddhist shrines, and over the years Christians, Jews and Muslims waged war and destroyed each others houses of worship.

You are going far beyond simply disagreeing and finding fault.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The best is that people should mind their own business and not throw opinions on others. Leave my Krishna alone. I am not asking for anything more.
 
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