Six Questions about the Soul

[George-ananda]

By further googling I've found >this site<. It contains summaries of the results of skeptical enquiries into Pam Reynolds, Maria's shoe, and more. The tone is unbecomingly aggressive in places, but the reports assert as factual matters that anyone arguing the contrary needs to specify and to deal with ─ unlike the site you linked.

I read the Maria one. If that's the best explanation the skeptics have then I am more convinced than ever that the shoe was part of a veridical NDE. Just being honest not snippy.

 

[blü 2]

I read the Maria one. If that's the best explanation the skeptics have then I am more convinced than ever that the shoe was part of a veridical NDE. Just being honest not snippy.

Let's leave it there then.

Go well.

 

[Kenny]

1. What is a soul?

2. Who (and/or what) has a soul?

3. Why would a soul want a body?

4. What does a soul actually do?

5. If the soul is "immaterial", how does it communicate with the material brain?

6. If you had no soul, how would you be different?

1)
Definition of soul
(Entry 1 of 2)
1)
1: the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2a: the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe
3: a person's total self
4a: an active or essential part
b: a moving spirit : LEADER
5a: the moral and emotional nature of human beings
b: the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment
c: spiritual or moral force : FERVOR
Definition of SOUL

2) Haven't thought about it other than animals and humans have one. Whether a blade of grace has one, I don't know.

3) I'm not understanding this question. Why would a human body want a heart? Seems kinda obvious to me

4) It thinks, it has emotions, it has a will

5) That's a good question. How does the universe keep expanding? Something to think about

6) I wouldn't have emotions, a will or a conscience. In my understanding,

But I'm not the expert in all things. Just a basic knowledge.

 

[blü 2]

1)
Definition of soul
(Entry 1 of 2)
1)
1: the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2a: the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe
3: a person's total self
4a: an active or essential part
b: a moving spirit : LEADER
5a: the moral and emotional nature of human beings
b: the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment
c: spiritual or moral force : FERVOR
Definition of SOUL

Thanks for your reply.

Since those definitions aren't compatible en masse, which one (or more) do you favor?

2) Haven't thought about it other than animals and humans have one. Whether a blade of grace has one, I don't know.

That again would depend on your choice of definition, no?

3) I'm not understanding this question. Why would a human body want a heart? Seems kinda obvious to me

Not, why would a body want a heart, but why would a soul want a body at all? You may have come across this verse from FitzGerald's "Omar Khayyam" ─

44. (4th edn)
Why, if the Soul can fling the Dust aside,
And naked on the Air of Heaven ride,

Wer’t not a Shame – wer’t not a Shame for him​

In this clay carcase crippled to abide?​

4) It thinks, it has emotions, it has a will

But our emotions are generated by our endocrine systems, our biochemistry ─ as eg adrenaline or testosterone readily show; and these are released reactively by the brain. And this is true of all animals I can think of. What could an immaterial soul add to that?

6) I wouldn't have emotions, a will or a conscience. In my understanding,

Then what if anything does the brain do? Why is it so strikingly large in humans, easily the largest consumer over all of the body's oxygen and nutrients?

 

[Kenny]

Thanks for your reply.

Since those definitions aren't compatible en masse, which one (or more) do you favor?

It depends on exactly what type of soul you are referring to (since there are many applications).

If you are talking about human beings, I would say it would encompass 1 though 4b - for discussion sake.

That again would depend on your choice of definition, no?

Not sure... it still could encompass both animals as well as man.

Not, why would a body want a heart, but why would a soul want a body at all? You may have come across this verse from FitzGerald's "Omar Khayyam" ─

44. (4th edn)
Why, if the Soul can fling the Dust aside,
And naked on the Air of Heaven ride,
Wer’t not a Shame – wer’t not a Shame for himIn this clay carcase crippled to abide?

Shouldn't we first come to the conclusion of exactly what it is before we come to application? We don't question why the heart comes with a live body because it just does. Why not the soul?

But our emotions are generated by our endocrine systems, our biochemistry ─ as eg adrenaline or testosterone readily show; and these are released reactively by the brain. And this is true of all animals I can think of. What could an immaterial soul add to that?

We haven't established that yet. If, as it was suggested, the soul does interact with the body, the body may simply be responding to the soul and visa versa.

It other words, the light bulb gives the light. Yet most people understand that the unseen electric actually empowers the filament to glow.

We wouldn't say that it just glows on its own. We could say the body doesn't live without the soul

Then what if anything does the brain do? Why is it so strikingly large in humans, easily the largest consumer over all of the body's oxygen and nutrients?

You could say it is the elbow that connects the soul to the natural. Interconnected, so to speak.

 

[blü 2]

It depends on exactly what type of soul you are referring to (since there are many applications).

If you are talking about human beings, I would say it would encompass 1 though 4b - for discussion sake.



Not sure... it still could encompass both animals as well as man/

What if the body and brain, and their abilities, were entirely material, and the 'soul' were just a metaphor, meaning roughly 'mind' and perhaps 'moral sense / conscience' ?

 

[Kenny]

What if the body and brain, and their abilities, were entirely material, and the 'soul' were just a metaphor, meaning roughly 'mind' and perhaps 'moral sense / conscience' ?

I suppose we can all do a "what if"... yet it still is quite an interesting subject in as much as everybody still wonders where the conscience comes from.

Because of all the spiritual encounters I have had, I just can't subscribe to that position.

 

[blü 2]

I suppose we can all do a "what if"... yet it still is quite an interesting subject in as much as everybody still wonders where the conscience comes from.

The conscience appears to be an evolved faculty of social animals, an aspect of and asset for living together in cooperative groups, and making possible (among other things) relative degrees of authority (the peck order).

Because of all the spiritual encounters I have had, I just can't subscribe to that position.

Understood.

Thanks for your replies.

 

[paarsurrey]

Six Questions about the Soul

What does one's " Skepticism" say about Soul , please?

Regards

 

[blü 2]

Six Questions about the Soul

What does one's " Skepticism" say about Soul , please?

Regards

I'd answer my own questions along these lines ─

1. What is a soul?

It seems to me the term usually alludes to a spiritual version of the "mind", itself a vague term covering an unclear variety of the brain's functions, but generally including sense of self, memory, language, intelligence and personality.
By 'spiritual', I mean, thought of as being an element distinct from the body but immaterial (hence necessarily purely conceptual / imaginary).​

2. Who (and/or what) has a soul?

Anyone and anything the individual who holds with the "soul" idea may wish.​

3. Why would a soul want a body?

Here I genuinely have no idea. From the imagined soul's point of view, it seems like volunteering for prison.
​

4. What does a soul actually do?

I'd guess the sorts of things I mentioned in 1. above.​

5. If the soul is "immaterial", how does it communicate with the material brain?

Since I think the soul is purely conceptual / imaginary, it's a creation of the brain so it communicates by imagined dialog with, or perhaps imagined manipulation of, the individual.​

6. If you had no soul, how would you be different?

If my answer to 1. is anywhere near the mark, it would seem to follow that you'd have no sense of self, memory, language, intelligence or personality.
Since I don't think souls are real, hence I don't think that I have one, I leave it to others to judge whether I have a sense of self, memory, &c &c.​

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'd answer my own questions along these lines ─

1. What is a soul?

It seems to me the term usually alludes to a spiritual version of the "mind", itself a vague term covering an unclear variety of the brain's functions, but generally including sense of self, memory, language, intelligence and personality.
By 'spiritual', I mean, thought of as being an element distinct from the body but immaterial (hence necessarily purely conceptual / imaginary).​

...

Well, material is a philosophical assumption. So if you leave both options of the table, you are left with the hard question of consciousness and that everything in the everyday world can't be done in an objective sense.

 

[blü 2]

Well, material is a philosophical assumption. So if you leave both options of the table, you are left with the hard question of consciousness and that everything in the everyday world can't be done in an objective sense.

Your assertion that material is a philosophical assumption is merely a philosophical assumption, so you're left with the hard question : "Why am I not falling through the ground to the center of the earth?"

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Your assertion that material is a philosophical assumption is merely a philosophical assumption, so you're left with the hard question : "Why am I not falling through the ground to the center of the earth?"

Because some cases are not all cases.

So here it is a reductio ad absurdum. If I in earth gravity jumps from a sufficiently high altitude reaching a sufficiently high velocity hitting a sufficiently hard surface with not breaking my fall I will die. That is so for everything in the world and now I test it and say no, that is not everything. And now I dead.

If you were a skeptic you would have test your own claim for some cases verus all cases. But you are in effect not a skeptic.

 

[blü 2]

Because some cases are not all cases.

Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not.

So here it is a reductio ad absurdum. If I in earth gravity jumps from a sufficiently high altitude reaching a sufficiently high velocity hitting a sufficiently hard surface with not breaking my fall I will die.

More generally, there will be a limit to the degree of concussive impact your body can survive.

That is so for everything in the world

No, it's only true of particular classes of living things.

And now I dead.

Sorry to hear it.

If you were a skeptic you would have test your own claim for some cases verus all cases.

What particular claim is "my own claim" in this case?

But you are in effect not a skeptic.

I'm happy with the thought that I'm as skeptical as I wish to be.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

1. What is a soul?

2. Who (and/or what) has a soul?

3. Why would a soul want a body?

4. What does a soul actually do?

5. If the soul is "immaterial", how does it communicate with the material brain?

6. If you had no soul, how would you be different?

1. The medium between universal dark energy/matter and a material creature.
2. Human creatures.
3. A soul is a union of spirit and body, there is no choice involved.
4. It is an energetic medium that allows higher consciousness (the 95%) to express itself in the matter world (the 5%).
5. It is a medium of higher consciousness.
6. You would be an android.

 

[blü 2]

1. The medium between universal dark energy/matter and a material creature.
2. Human creatures.
3. A soul is a union of spirit and body, there is no choice involved.
4. It is an energetic medium that allows higher consciousness (the 95%) to express itself in the matter world (the 5%).
5. It is a medium of higher consciousness.
6. You would be an android.

Thanks for those.

"Dark Energy" is the name of a problem, not an identified thing at present, but whatever is the answer will be part of physics, that is, undeniably part of the material world. So your hypothesis makes the soul material. Is that what you intend?

Why is the soul limited to humans? And at what point in the evolution of Homo sapiens sapiens did we acquire a soul? Why that point and not another?

As I understand it, a soul, unlike its body, is said to be able to survive death and live forever ─ which are things done despite and without the body. Which is why I asked why the soul would need a body in the first place.

Since a chimp, or a dolphin, or a dog, can express itself in the material world without (it's said) having a soul, why would humans be unable to express themselves without a soul?

How does 'a medium of higher consciousness' communicate with the material brain?

If soulless = android status, how can we tell whether a person whose actions are abnormal (let's say android-y) is acting in that manner because he or she lacks a soul?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Thanks for those.

"Dark Energy" is the name of a problem, not an identified thing at present, but whatever is the answer will be part of physics, that is, undeniably part of the material world. So your hypothesis makes the soul material. Is that what you intend?

Why is the soul limited to humans? And at what point in the evolution of Homo sapiens sapiens did we acquire a soul? Why that point and not another?

As I understand it, a soul, unlike its body, is said to be able to survive death and live forever ─ which are things done despite and without the body. Which is why I asked why the soul would need a body in the first place.

Since a chimp, or a dolphin, or a dog, can express itself in the material world without (it's said) having a soul, why would humans be unable to express themselves without a soul?

How does 'a medium of higher consciousness' communicate with the material brain?

If soulless = android status, how can we tell whether a person whose actions are abnormal (let's say android-y) is acting in that manner because he or she lacks a soul?

Consider the omnipresent space that is said to contain dark energy by science as one and the same space that I am saying contains the omnipresent spirit. Regardless of the name, I am referring to the transition medium between the energy of space and the manifestation. You do realize that dark energy/matter contains 95% of the mass of the universe, normal matter that can be detected and studied by science, about 5%, in spatial terms, the material universe is almost infinitesimal.

I mentioned humans for the reason of context wrt humans, but yes, it exists for all manifestations, including galaxies, stars, animal kingdoms, etc..

The universe expresses itself through all things, there is no material creation without the transitional medium from omnipresence to distinct created form.

As implied above, animals are an creative expression of the universe, there is a transition medium associated with it between spirit and the material form.

The brain (and all matter) exists in the spiritual medium, depending on the soul's vibrational content, the brain can be influenced.

All people have souls.

 

[blü 2]

Consider the omnipresent space that is said to contain dark energy by science as one and the same space that I am saying contains the omnipresent spirit. I am referring to the transition medium between the energy of space and the manifestation.

But as I said, 'dark energy' is presently the name of a problem, not a defined thing or phenomenon.

I mentioned humans for the reason of context wrt humans, but yes, it exists for all manifestations, including galaxies, stars, animal kingdoms, etc.

So, you say, no only all living things but all inanimate things have souls?

The universe expresses itself through all things

Do you mean to say the universe is a sentient entity "expressing itself", or are you just using a figure of speech? ─ the equivalent of "all real things exist in the material universe", for example?

there is no material creation without the transitional medium from omnipresence to distinct created form.

What is it that is "omnipresent"? Again, whatever it is, are you saying it's sentient?

animals are an creative expression of the universe, there is a transition medium associated with it between spirit and the material form.

So in your view, the universe is capable of deliberate action and has deliberately caused all animals to exist?

And I still don't understand what you mean by 'spirit' here, or the means by which it interacts with the material ─ I'm interested in your clarification.

The brain (and all matter) exists in the spiritual medium, depending on the soul's vibrational content, the brain can be influenced.

I know of no evidence to support those claims. Do you have any?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

But as I said, 'dark energy' is presently the name of a problem, not a defined thing or phenomenon.
So, you say, no only all living things but all inanimate things have souls?
Do you mean to say the universe is a sentient entity "expressing itself", or are you just using a figure of speech? ─ the equivalent of "all real things exist in the material universe", for example?
What is it that is "omnipresent"? Again, whatever it is, are you saying it's sentient?
So in your view, the universe is capable of deliberate action and has deliberately caused all animals to exist?

And I still don't understand what you mean by 'spirit' here, or the means by which it interacts with the material ─ I'm interested in your clarification.
I know of no evidence to support those claims. Do you have any?

Hi blu2, no offence but it seems we are on quite different 'wavelengths' and share little common ground so I will I leave it at that. Thank you for your exchange though, kind regards.

 

[blü 2]

Hi blu2, no offence but it seems we are on quite different 'wavelengths' and share little common ground so I will I leave it at that. Thank you for your exchange though, kind regards.

Go well!