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Six Muslim men sentenced to jail, fine for going to waterfall instead of Friday prayers
- Thread starter danieldemol
- Start date
That's what happens when you live under a theocracy. It's essential to freedom not to mix religion and politics.
Goosey goosey gander,
Whither shall I wander?
Upstairs and downstairs
And in my lady’s chamber.
There I met an old man
Who wouldn’t say his prayers,
So I took him by his left leg
And threw him down the stairs.
Rival, you have got to stop throwing people down stairs.
Shad
Veteran Member
Religion and government. It is impossible to remove religion from politics in general as individuals have views and vote.
Embracing in friendship is fine to a point. But anyone I kiss has to be female and, oh yeah, my wife.
True to a point. But I think there is a big difference in voting your conscience and living under say 'Sharia law'.
Why?!Rival, you have got to stop throwing people down stairs.
It's what Elmo tells me to do.
Hmm, sounds like Elmo may be possessed by an evil Gremlin.
Shad
Veteran Member
Yah that is why I said government. A religious person can be a fiscal conservative and vote accordingly without requiring their religion to be part of government.
I would add duel systems make people unequal before the law.
Embracing in friendship is fine to a point. But anyone I kiss has to be female and, oh yeah, my wife.
Cheek kissing is not romantic kissing, its a cultural thing
But either way, it not compulsory, just expected among family and friends
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I wonder what would happen if they just up and decided to become non-muslim?
In a society where they are put in jail for skipping prayer, I would guess it wouldn't end well for them.
Huh, it seems the civil law won't support you if you decide to change your religion.
Complications have arisen with regard to the dual justice system, for example with regard to freedom of religion. Article 11 of the Constitution provides that "Every person has the right to profess and practice his religion". However, in the case of Lina Joy—a Malay who converted to Christianity—the Federal Court of Malaysia refused to allow her to change her religion indicated in her identity card (MyKad). The judges held that they had no jurisdiction on the matter—that it was a matter of the Shariah Court, as indicated in Article 121(1A) of the Constitution.
Shad
Veteran Member
Huh, it seems the civil law won't support you if you decide to change your religion.
Complications have arisen with regard to the dual justice system, for example with regard to freedom of religion. Article 11 of the Constitution provides that "Every person has the right to profess and practice his religion". However, in the case of Lina Joy—a Malay who converted to Christianity—the Federal Court of Malaysia refused to allow her to change her religion indicated in her identity card (MyKad). The judges held that they had no jurisdiction on the matter—that it was a matter of the Shariah Court, as indicated in Article 121(1A) of the Constitution.
To think in this day and age people have to go to court to argue that they do or do not follow a religion. At worst this should be DMV level or a minor form to fill out if such a registry must exist.
Imagine being born Muslim in Malaysia. You'd be stuck with Islam/syariah law for life. Your belief being forced upon you by the state/legal system.
Stanyon
WWMRD?
Here is some more fun stuff from Rueters, hopefully the people that say we should be intolerant to intolerance will show up.
"Article 11 of Malaysia’s Constitution guarantees freedom of worship but provides for bans on non-Muslims recruiting Muslims away from Islam"
"Proselytizing to Muslims, while not illegal under federal law, is outlawed in most Malaysian states. Punishments for those caught trying to convert them include jail time and whippings.
"Islam, the official state religion, is followed by some 60 percent of the population, according to the 2000 census. The majority follow Sunni Islam and strains deemed “deviant” are opposed by the government."
"Apostasy is generally considered a sin or a crime by Islamic authorities. Muslims who wish to convert from Islam face severe obstacles. Islamic courts have exclusive jurisdiction in cases of apostasy and generally send them for counseling but, if this fails, they can mete out fines or jail sentences."
"- In 2000, an Islamic court sentenced four people to 3-year prison terms for apostasy.
- Leaders of the opposition Islamic Party (PAS) have said that the penalty for apostasy should be death."
"- A 2002 ban on the Bible being published in the Malay and Iban languages was later repealed by Abdullah, who said it was over-zealous. But in April 2005 he said copies of Malay-language Bibles must have “Not for Muslims” printed on the front, and could only be distributed in churches and Christian bookshops.
* Malaysia’s tough film censorship laws vet sensitive religious material, nudity and sex. In 2004 Abdullah intervened to allow tickets for actor-director Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of the Christ” to be sold to Christians, while Muslims were barred from seeing it."
source:
FACTBOX: Five facts on religion and apostasy in Malaysia - Reuters
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
That's a good thing I believe ... the less proselytizing the better.
Few month back it was in the news that some Chinese Christians went to a Muslim country proselytizing. Ending up in jail. And China decided that this was correct. Being Chinese they should have known that they should follow the Law of the Country. So China refused to help them out.
Stanyon
WWMRD?
I know Jehovas Witnesses can be annoying at times but I wouldn't put them or anyone else (Muslims included) in jail for proselytizing, and yes I did encounter some Muslims at a market centre that were doing this. I just tell them I am not interested and walk away or shut the door, they can leave literature but it will end up in the trash. Now I might keep the literature or take free books they hand out if it is some weird cult just for personal entertainment and put it in my collection, yes I do collect this stuff. You might want to check out the Heavens Gate initiation tapes on YouTube, it's mind boggling what people can buy into.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
There's no verse in the quran that says punish those who don't pray in Friday, the problem
is with the human's mind and not the religion, Jews used to punish those who were working
on Saturdays and Jesus opposed them and used to call the Pharisees as hypocrites.
The problem isn't religion, the problem is the followers of the religion. Unfortunately they justify their ideology by their religion. As long as they claim it as the only truth there's no reasoning with them. I suppose the concept of monotheism maybe to blame. Perhaps we'd be better off with multiple gods.