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Featured Since we are at the “end times” what are the revelations of Daniel 12:10?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 2ndpillar, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    2 Peter was written by some unknown author, most likely after Peter’s death. As for Paul’s letters, half of them were most likely written by someone else.

    As for you referring to the Roman church, who canonized Paul’s words, via the bishop of Alexandria, as being God, well I think you might want to revisit that stretch of the imagination.
     
  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Repent from what?
     
  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    You have the unknown author of Acts speaking up for Paul. He was supposedly Paul's associate Luke, who according to Luke 1:1-3, witnessed nothing and probably got most of his information from Paul. O yeah, you also have the unknown writer of 2 Peter speaking up, saying Paul was his brother. That leaves Paul by himself declaring he was an apostle, which makes that statement "not true" (John 5:31).
     
  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Oh, so Luke is a fraud too...? Anyone else you'd like to shoot down? What about Timothy and Barnabas as well?

    How would you know who wrote what? Were you there? Where are you getting your own information? I'm sure we'd all like to know......

    It seems as if you have "the word of God" that isn't anything of the sort...how special are you that you are the informed one screaming at the world how wrong everyone is about the Bible they all have in their possession...the one God allows to be read as his official communication to mankind.......who is the real fraud I wonder?

    I guess we will just have to wait and see, won't we...? [​IMG]
     
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  5. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The epistle to Timothy was written by Paul, not Timothy. I didn’t know Barnabas wrote an epistle. As for being there, according to Luke 1:1-3, he was not there, and witnessed nothing. As for the bible in everyone’s possession, it was published by the “daughter of Babylon” (Zech 2:7), the Roman church, and is a mix of the “good seed” and the “tare seed” (Matthew 13). You have mixed the leaven of the Pharisee of Pharisees, with the wheat, and you have ruined the whole loaf. The teaching of the last supper was that you were to eat the bread with no leaven.


    You are following the false narrative based on Peter and Paul, which is a foundation of sand, which will fail, and any house built upon it will “fall” (Matthew 7:27). The “tested stone” would be the Law and the prophets” (Isaiah 28:16). Yeshua is simply the “Word”/”Law and the prophets” “made flesh”/being “fulfilled”. (Matthew 5:17). Your information comes from the traditions of men, and men are your teachers, leaders, and Father figure. That is the wrong path (Matthew 23:8-10). There is only one teacher, the “anointing”(1 John 2:27). Everything else is the “falsehoods” of “our fathers” (Jeremiah 16:19), with respect to the “nations”/Gentiles. As for waiting and seeing, tick tock.
     
  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    We have not yet ascertained where your information comes from...you seem very reluctant to divulge your sources.
    I can only be suspicious of that. Can you not stand the scrutiny that you seem to relish giving to others? :shrug:

    Indeed. [​IMG]
     
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  7. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    If I bring light, then those of the light will see that light.
     
  8. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    So, if I go by your reckoning, then the whole Bible is in question; they put the entire accepted Bible canon together.

    But Jehovah can use anyone He wants, even wicked ones, to accomplish His will. Like Kings Cyrus and Nebuchadnezzar.

    Besides, Paul's writings are necessary to tie in other Bible books, especially from the Hebrew Scriptures, as to how they relate to God's acceptance of and dealings with the Christian faith.

    I'm sorry you can't see it.
     
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The end was known from the beginning. How did the “dragon” deceive “those who dwell on the earth (Revelation 13:14)? The “dragon” gave his authority to the “beast” with 7 heads (Revelation 13:4). The 7th head of the beast, Constantine, instituted his Roman church with Peter and Paul being the foundation. Yeshua’s gospel of repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, was nailed to the cross, and “Christians” are supposedly saved by saying Lord, Lord (Matthew 7:22). In actuality, those in Jerusalem and on Mount Zion will “escape”, by calling on the “name of the LORD” (Joel 2:32). “Christians”/”foreigners” are in general, not on Mount Zion (Isaiah 56:6), nor “in Jerusalem”. The “beast with two horns like a lamb”, Constantine, glorified both Peter and Paul by building a basilica, a pagan cross shaped church, for their glory. The cross is the symbol Sol Invictus told Constantine to go out and conquer under at the battle of Milvian Bridge in 312 A.D.

    As for JWs, keep in mind, that the canon, used today, was canonized by the head cheer leader of the false Trinity doctrine, Athanasius, on the pagan festival of Easter, in 367 A.D.

    You have many problems in the construction of your house. It is destined to fall (Matthew 7:27), because you heed Paul, and not Yeshua. You have “inherited nothing but falsehood” (Jeremiah 16:19). As for Peter, his heir, the pope, is also destined to “fall”(Isaiah 22:15-25), and Peter has already been “deposed” (Isaiah 22:18-19) , and “cast into a vast country” for shaming “your master’s house”.

    The problem is that if you actually “saw it”, you would have to carry your cross, for your mother, father, and family would turn on you. (Matthew 10:34-38).

    The reason you can't understand the "Law and the prophets", the OT, is because of Paul. Yeshua is the light, not Paul. Paul is "darkness" (Isaiah 8:20).
     
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I told you, yet you did not have ears to hear (1 John 2:27).
     
  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I have seen no light from you......no love.....no Christlike personality....and a hatred for many of the NT Bible writers....so where is this light you bring? Are you hiding it under a basket? :shrug: Perhaps those looking for the light see only darkness and threats and condemnation..... [​IMG] ....its not very appealing ya know.

    Could you just reiterate one more time...I guess I missed it in all that hate speech. :facepalm:
     
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  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I mean, if there was a temple nearby, maybe I could overturn some tables. Or maybe I could threaten anyone who does not produce good fruit, with being cut down and thrown into the fire. Maybe I should remind you that the “tares” will be taken “first” and thrown into the fire before the wheat is gathered (Matthew 13:30), and you will not be sitting on a cloud when that all happens. Or maybe I should go with Paul’s wide path to “destruction” (Matthew 7:13-15). Just believe what I say, and you shall be saved. I am thinking the fruit from that tree, Paul's church, turned out a little “rotten”. Of course, I guess I should exclude your church, because you are so sweet and delectable, until someone doesn’t agree with you.


    As for your apparent lack of the ability to comprehend what Yeshua taught in Matthew 23:8, I will repeat it again, with full text, from the perspective of 1 John 2:27. Read the following real slow, to find out how one is to be taught.


    1 John 2:27: “And as for you, the anointing which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as his anoint teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in him.
     
  13. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Might I remind you that that is your "opinion"....not absolute verifiable fact except in your own mind. If we clarify that then perhaps the rest will all fall into place. This is your exclusive interpretation of scripture...we all understand that, but we don't share your conviction particularly when you seem to place yourself on a par with the Master himself. :rolleyes:

    We are his humble servants......not his army of condemners. OK? Where is your "good news"?

    Ummm.....you could well be describing yourself again....:oops:

    Oh...sorry, now I get it.....you are claiming to be one of the anointed....silly me. :confused:

    I didn't know that you were a "chosen one" who receives exclusive communication from the holy spirit. Who else is in your congregation? Do you know of any other people who believe what you do? Do you meet with them for worship as the first century anointed Christians did? You might remember that the first Christians received their anointing as a group.....120 of them in fact. It imparted miraculous powers to them.

    Please share how you conduct your assembly....and how the holy spirit guides your evangelism in all the world?

    You do realize that there are others on these forums who believe that they too get their direction from the holy spirit.....do you agree with them? If not, then who is getting the "fake news"? :shrug:
     
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  14. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that you don't think you have been "anointed"? What do you think the baptism of the Spirit is? (Matthew 3:11)?



    As for an "army of condemners", I think we are at that at the "end of the age", and the army will be of those who "gather out" the "tares" "first", along with "stumbling blocks", and those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:30 & 40-41).

    Yeshua's message, unlike that of the "serpent" (Genesis 3:4), and his son, Paul (1 Thessalonians 4:17), was not that you would not die, but that the day of the LORD would be a day of judgment, and the "wicked" would find themselves "weeping and gnashing their teeth" (Matthew 13:49-50). The "righteous", the wheat, would later be "gathered into the barn" (Matthew 13:30).


    The “good news” would be “repent, for the kingdom of God/heaven is at hand”. To repent, one must have something to repent of. As Paul has “released” you from the “Law”, what do you have to repent of? (Romans 7:6) You are chasing your tail.

    As for the “good news” of the JWs, it is not good news for the people whose door they knock on. They cannot heal, or even raise from the dead, for they have no power to heal themselves much less heal others. And the JW’s don’t actually understand the “repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand”.



    As for the other posters, most have the “mark of the beast”, so if nothing else, they are “deceived” at the moment. Yeshua left it open that the “elect” could be “deceived” (Matthew 24:24) “if possible”, but then they would drink the “wine of the wrath of God”, if they didn’t “escape” (Zechariah 2:7), and “come out of her” (Revelation 18:4).
     
    #114 2ndpillar, Feb 10, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  15. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Yes, I am saying that I am not anointed. [​IMG] ....and I am not one bit upset about it.
    All of the first Christians received their anointing, and along with it, they received power of the holy spirit, and could perform miracles. But not all Christians need to be anointed. Nor were the gifts of the spirit to last. Once they achieved their purpose, they ceased.

    The Revelation reveals two groups who receive salvation because of the blood of the Lamb.
    One group was numbered, (144,000) chosen from among mankind, standing with Jesus in heaven as "firstfruits" from among mankind. (Revelation 7:9-10; 13-14; Revelation 14:1, 3-4)....these ones, chosen to rule in heaven with Christ, will experience the "first resurrection". (Revelation 20:6)

    The second group was seen standing before God's throne attributing salvation to God and the Lamb and the angel identified them as "the ones who come out of the great tribulation". The first group are seen in heaven but the second are identified as survivors of the great tribulation which occurs on earth.

    I am not part of the first group, but hope to be part of the second. I hold no aspirations of going to heaven because I believe all of those positions are filled already. And God put humans on this earth, not to train them for heaven, but to enjoy everlasting life right here on earth in paradise conditions. Who could want more?
    I would be overjoyed to live there. [​IMG]

    We are here at the end of the age to preach the "good news". (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) People need something to look forward to because of the turmoil that is foretold for these last days. Just as Jesus was sent to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", so we are sent to the spiritually 'lost' ones today.....it is not to condemn them and accuse them, but to "refresh" them and give them hope of better times to come.

    This was Jesus' approach...."Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for yourselves. 30 For my yoke is kindly, and my load is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30)
    What is your approach? [​IMG] Sheesh! You seem to want to force people into submission with a big stick!...something Jesus never did.

    So I guess you see your self as "righteous"?

    The "day of the Lord" will indeed cleanse the earth and pave the way for the rule of God's kingdom.....but as to who is saved and who is not, is not for us to say.....Jesus alone is the judge....or has he appointed you in that role without telling anyone but you? :shrug:

    Paul did not release us from the Law at all....by paying the ultimate price, Jesus released us from the curse of it. You do understand what he meant?

    No imperfect human could keep a perfect law. The law made Israel acutely aware of their propensity to sin, so their weekly sacrifices were a constant reminder of their need for forgiveness. Animal blood had to be shed for forgiveness to take place. According to the law...."...the soul of any flesh is its blood all who eat it shall be cut off." (Leviticus 17:14) Blood was sacred because it represented life itself.

    Christ's blood, shed "once for all time" covered our sins as long as we continue to be repentant over the things we do wrong. Sin is part of the legacy that Adam left for his children.....Jesus paid for our sins by shedding his own blood. A one off payment that would last forever.

    If you ask them, I'm sure that you would get a very different answer. I have personally studied the Bible with many people who are now my spiritual brothers and sisters. Some of them were totally lost, but wanted to be found. Some of them had terrible pasts, but found the refreshment Jesus was offering.
    No one else was looking for them. It came when they found that Jesus was a loving and kind representative of his Father....their confidence returned when they saw that forgiveness was possible and a better life was attainable with God's help. We are all part of one global spiritual family now and I can honestly say that there is no other family on earth like us.

    LOL...you say that with such conviction.....yet it is comical in reality.

    Can you raise the dead or even heal the sick? Have you repented of your own sins...or are you too perfect to have any? What does it mean to you "repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand”?

    [​IMG] Yep...there it is.....so Christlike and loving....everyone is deceived but you...? [​IMG]

    So I assume that you are alone with no one who shares your beliefs.....since you do not want us to know who your fellow Christians are? Do you even know any of them personally I wonder? You must believe that they exist...have you ever met any?
     
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  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The “big stick” will be a “rod of iron” (Revelation 19:10)

    Those reigning with "Christ" (Revelation 20:4), will be the dead who had been "beheaded" etc. and excluded those with the "mark of the beast". Being followers of the false prophet Paul, a "Christlike" "horn like a lamb" of the "beast" (Revelation 13:11), that would be inconveniently difficult for the JWs to pull off.

    As for the term "repent", it means to turn away from, and not, as in your case (Romans 7:6 & 25), being sorry for your continual sins being committed. As for what is sin, well that would be transgression of the Law. Something you apparently don't think you are under (Romans 7:6). I suggest that your reread the Commandments, and then determine whether you in fact even acknowledge them, much the less keep them.

    As for Yeshua releasing you from "dying", as proscribed by Paul (1 Thessalonians 4:17), not going to happen. (Jeremiah 31:30).

    As for the "kingdom of heaven at hand", that would be the power and the Spirit of God at hand, which would include healing the sick (James 5:18).

    Your being "saved", with regard to Joel 2:31, it is a misnomer. Try a new bible. With regard to Joel 2:31-32 the term would better be "escape" and "survivor". As for Matthew 24:13, that would similarly apply, but with the restriction that one must "endure to the end".

    As for the anointing, one must have a new wine skin (Matthew 9:17) to hold the new wine. Being a follower of Paul, your existing wine skin would be subject to bursting if subjected to new wine, such as holding the Spirit of God. The feast of Unleavened Bread is coming up, maybe you should throw out the leaven from your house.
     
  17. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    You always avoid this question.....we have to wonder why?

    All you have is condemnation, no good news...so who would be attracted to what you say if they were looking for the 'refreshment' that Jesus was offering?

    Perhaps you need to re-read the gospels and see what attracted people to what Jesus taught. You are nothing like him.....Peter said to those who are "called".......

    1 Peter 2:21-25....."In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely. 22 He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth. 23 When he was being insulted, he did not insult in return. When he was suffering, he did not threaten, but he entrusted himself to the One who judges righteously. 24 He himself bore our sins in his own body on the stake, so that we might die to sins and live to righteousness. And “by his wounds you were healed.” 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls."
     
  18. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    For those who are "chosen (1 Peter 2:9)" to be his "brothers" (and sisters). At Matthew 25:31-40, Jesus spoke of those who were goats, sheep, and his brothers.

    The sheep are not his brothers, but they perform loving acts to his brothers.

    Unfortunately, you won't know the difference until you accept Paul as Jesus' Apostle....he explained it in Hebrews.

    (The Apostle John touched on it very briefly, @ 1 John 2:2.)
     
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  19. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Well then, let him do it, not you....we need to "adorn the teachings" (Titus 2:10) by our words and actions....draw people, not push them away.
     
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  20. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    1 John 2:3, is more succinct and to the point.

    New American Standard Bible 1 John 2:3
    By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

    The "brothers and sisters" of Yeshua are those who do the will of God.

    Matthew 12:48-50 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    48 But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”
     
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