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Featured Since we are at the “end times” what are the revelations of Daniel 12:10?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 2ndpillar, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Since we are at the “end times” what are the revelations promised by Daniel 12:10?

    Since we are at the “end times” when “they finish shattering the power of the holy people” /Judah (Daniel 12:7), which happened in 1967, whereas Judah took back possession of all Jerusalem, where now is the unveiling of the prophecies of Daniel 12:10. Judah crushed the “feet of iron and clay” a coalition of Russia (iron) and the surrounding countries of Psalm 83:4-8, the clay, as stated in Daniel 2:34 & Zechariah 12:1-8. But when is the crushing of all the kingdoms , all at the same time (Daniel 2:35) & (Jeremiah 30:11)? Who is gathering these nations to the valley of judgment to be crushed (Joel 3:2). Who is whispering in the ears of all the kings of the earth (Revelation 16:13-19), to gather them to Har-Magedon (Zechariah 12:11).
     
  2. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    There is promise of a refining as is mentioned elsewhere. The wise ones will understand what is going on because of their studies and faith, they will know what the purpose is with the suffering.
    Malachi 3:2 But who can abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fuller’s soap: 3 and he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi, and refine them as gold and silver; and they shall offer unto Jehovah offerings in righteousness. 4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto Jehovah, as in the days of old, and as in ancient years.
     
  3. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    People need to study numerology and gematria. They believe in magic and use numerology as a form of magic.
     
  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Daniel 12:10...."Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand."

    Why did God's people need 'cleansing, whitening and refining' at this time? Wasn't it because the churches had introduced so many foreign doctrines that it was viewed as "stained and dirty" in God's eyes? It wasn't an instantaneous washing but a process of getting rid of the soiling and the stain left by it. God provided the 'soap' and left the scrubbing up to us.

    Refining is the means by which metals are cleansed of impurities. They are brought to the surface and skimmed off and thrown away. This is what happened to Christianity in the "time of the end". True Christianity was restored and the failing counterfeits were left stewing in their false doctrines....unable to divorce themselves from their strongly entrenched beliefs.

    I do not believe that your interpretation of those events is accurate. The prophesies relating to "New Jerusalem" have nothing to do with the geographical location of the original city in Israel. It is a hotbed of hatred and unrest.....it is no place for God to call home, and hasn't been for a very long time.

    "New Jerusalem" is the "bride of Christ"...his co-rulers in the heavenly kingdom who are seen in the Revelation as accompanying Christ Jesus, in bringing God's Kingdom rulership to the earth...to mankind. (Revelation 21:2-4) with wonderful blessings.

    It is God who is going to crush all existing human rulerships out of existence in one mighty act of judgment.

    Referring to our day, (the time of the feet of the image) Daniel 2:44 says...."In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever"

    Daniel saw a huge stone, not of human origin, strike the feet of the image and destroy every last vestige of failed human rulership on this earth....then the stone itself "became a large mountain and filled the whole earth"

    This pictures corrupt human rulership under the influence of the devil (1 John 5:19) being eliminated from existence and God's rulership (the one we should have been enjoying all along) being re-established over the whole of mankind....forever.

    It is the demons working signs and wonders who draw the kings of the earth into this war over rulership. It is the final showdown between God and his arch enemy over who is the rightful sovereign over the human race. (Revelation 16:13-14; 16)
    And I also believe it is Jehovah's Witnesses warning people of all nations about what is about to take place (Matthew 24:14).....but that is just me. [​IMG]

    Daniel 12:4..."As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and knowledge will become abundant.”

    Daniel 12:9-10...."Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. 10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand."

    The "wicked" will never understand why they are unacceptable to God and his Christ....and they don't care.
    The ones who fail to accept the cleansing and refining will be judged by Jesus at the final judgment......

    "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’" (Matthew 7:21-23)

    Jesus knows who we are...even if we don't know ourselves. Some will be in for a reward...but I believe that others will be in for a shock. :eek:
     
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  5. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    So why is Jesus the obvious truth, that I'd be damned not to believe?

    How literal should the bible be taken?

    And what's the best version of it?
     
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  6. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...

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    Who says we're at the end times?
     
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  7. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    You mean 2000 years ago wasn't the end times? Some one could have at least given Paul the memo...
     
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  8. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...

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    As long as people are aware of the phenomenon of pareidolia as well.
     
  9. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Of course it can be abused. The point is to hopefully find something so compelling that it cannot possibly be coincidence. This comes by studying the numbers that are considered magical or sacred to certain groups that rule the world. I believe the Bible is most likely talking about gematria when it mentions the number of the beast.
     
  10. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...

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    When you find that "can't possibly be coincidental" number, be sure to let us know
     
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  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Blind Freddy? :D
     
  12. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Who said we are at the end times?
     
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  13. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Unless you know what we are.....who we are.....why we are....and where we are...nothing makes sense. :confused:

    Jesus makes all of those questions, make sense. The God who sent him tells us why he was a necessary part of the answers and what we can expect in the future because of his life course. This is the big picture. Everything fits perfectly in the big picture. ;)

    If you have an educated guide (not educated by the world with degrees in Theology, but educated by God with spiritual discernment of the scriptures) then everything will fall into place. It will be easy to see when the Bible is to be taken literally and when it speaks in metaphors. Once you have the big picture, it interprets itself. It is one story from beginning to end.

    The one that speaks in plain English without making words say what the ancients never believed.

    The example of the Ethiopian Eunuch is one to emulate.
    Acts 8:26-31...."Jehovah’s angel spoke to Philip, saying: “Get up and go to the south to the road that runs down from Jerusalem to Gazʹa.” (This is a desert road.) 27 With that he got up and went, and look! an E·thi·oʹpi·an eunuch, a man who had authority under Can·daʹce, queen of the E·thi·oʹpi·ans, and who was in charge of all her treasure. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and he was returning and was sitting in his chariot, reading aloud the prophet Isaiah. 29 So the spirit said to Philip: “Go over and approach this chariot.” 30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know what you are reading?” 31 He said: “Really, how could I ever do so unless someone guided me?” So he urged Philip to get on and sit down with him." (NWT)

    Ask questions and do not rest until you have the answers. I have found that all of the important questions have very reasonable answers in the Bible. :)
     
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  14. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There's an echo in here.....:p
     
  15. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    New American Standard Bible Daniel 12:10
    "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.

    I don't know were you get your quotes, but they have a lot to be desired. The refining will be done by God, and of the "little ones", "I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them" (Zechariah 13:7-9). The same viewpoint is found in Jeremiah 30:11. I am thinking that the JWs have written their own bible molded to their own viewpoint. Keep in mind, the JWs, who hold on to the false prophet Paul, need refining as much as any other supplicate to Paul.
     
  16. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    What denomination are you?
     
  17. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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  18. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Considering that the end times were some 2,000 years into the future, do you blame God for not telling Christ's disciples that "the end" was still a long way off? All of the Bible writers felt that they were speaking about an imminent event....and from their perspective it was. It was a sure hope that they carried to their graves.

    All of the first Christians would "sleep in death" until Christ returned to take them home. He promised them that.
    At John 14:1-3....Jesus told them....
    “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me. 2 In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be."

    Paul wrote at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16...."Moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death, so that you may not sorrow as the rest do who have no hope. 14 For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus. 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first."

    "Sleeping in death" means that there is no consciousness of the passage of time. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10)
    Those who died a thousand years ago....two thousand years ago...five thousand years ago, will awaken as if they just closed their eyes.

    Those who are to accompany Jesus to heaven as part of the Kingdom arrangement, will rise first, (Revelation 20:6) but not until Christ's return. No one is inconvenienced by the length of time it has taken to work out the blessings of God's Kingdom. It will "come" and it will mean that God's will can finally be "done on earth as it is in heaven." That makes sense to me.
     
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  19. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    It is the "demon spirits" of the "false prophet", and "the beast" who are already dead, who is gathering all the kings of the whole world. (Rev 16:13).
     
  20. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Here it is from the Tanach....

    "And he said, "Go, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end.

    10 They will be clarified and whitened, and many will be purified, and the wicked will pervert [them], and all the wicked will not understand, but the wise will understand"


    You mean that they don't say what you want then to?

    I use a variety of translations, but I like the Tanach for Jewish scripture. Which of the translations are closest to the Tanach? The NWT is as far as I can see. I think your interpretation leaves a lot to be desired personally. Are there any others who share your view of these scriptures or are you another 'lone ranger' with your very own take on the words? What makes you right and everyone else wrong? If you have no brotherhood who share your views, then that kind of puts you out on a limb IMO.

    I was born and raised in Christendom and I know who have molded the Bible to fit their own views.

    You keep speaking disparagingly of the one whom Christ himself anointed as an apostle to the nations. Who are you to criticize Paul? If the other apostles accepted him as a brother and they had the benefit of God's holy spirit, are you saying that you know better than they did?
    I believe that it is you who is acting as a false prophet. You pick and choose which parts of the Bible you will accept and which parts you will reject as if God has no control over what is included in his own word.

    What you write is not in accord with scripture IMO.
     
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