Sin

[nPeace]

Your Math does not add up.
If God is perfect, God would know that given free will that His creation would not be perfect. Further, God would know exactly that none of them would come out perfect. A perfect being comes up very lacking creating such imperfection. On the other hand, maybe mankind has it wrong.

Clearly, mankind has it wrong. If mankind has it wrong, then what is the Truth?? How can the Math add up perfectly?

This time-based causal universe is perfect for learning. Learning and growing requires free will. Why? If one did not have free will one would choose the opposite as soon as one were free just to Discover what was missed. We are all learning and growing through our free choices and what returns from our choices. When one understands all sides, intelligence will pick the Best Choices. In a sense, we are all learning and growing our way to perfection.

God is perfect. What people do not realize is that God isn't through creating us yet. WE are all in the learning and growing stage. WE are all walking toward our perfection.

There is way too much to learn in one lifetime. Since there is no time limit on learning, no child will be left behind. No child will be discarded or fried in Hell.

Don't you see? It's the only way the Math will add up. It's the only way there are no missing pieces.

A Leopard does not change it's spots. If all the physics of this world add up perfectly, so must everything about God and the people factor. With this in mind, Sin does not exist!! On the other hand, through our choices we choose what lessons we are to learn. May we all be wise enough not to choose hard lessons for ourselves, but if we do, we won't be condemned. We will be taught until we understand what the Best choices really are.

That's what I see. It's very clear! The Math adds up!!

Evidently your concept of perfect is quite different to what I said throughout this thread.

 

[Bird123]

Evidently your concept of perfect is quite different to what I said throughout this thread.

Indeed, feeling what one thinks is right can lead one away from the Real Truth. The MATH can not be ignored. God could never have created all this without the Math adding up.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

The MATH can not be ignored. God could never have created all this without the Math adding up.

Whether the math adds up or not all depends upon what is on each side of the equation.

 

[nPeace]

Indeed, feeling what one thinks is right can lead one away from the Real Truth. The MATH can not be ignored. God could never have created all this without the Math adding up.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Okay, let's take a step back, and analyze your post, piece by piece.

Your Math does not add up.
The first presumption you made is that your Math is the ultimate. Why would you do that when you know how limited humans are... not to mention, wrong 98.5% of the time.

If God is perfect, God would know that given free will that His creation would not be perfect.
The second presumption you made, is that perfection means what you envision - uncontrollable knowledge. In other words automatic knowledge that requires no manual direction.
Where did you see that written as perfection? Even robots need to be fed the knowledge they have, and all of it doesn't process all at once. The robot could not make decisions and would malfunction.
Perfection does not mean that.

Further, God would know exactly that none of them would come out perfect
Considering your presumption above doesn't stand, they were considered by God, able to reach the perfection God set for them, since this perfection is relative, and not absolute.
Mere superior beings cannot be absolutely perfect.

A perfect being comes up very lacking creating such imperfection.
A perfect being can only create lesser perfection, but that lesser perfection is not imperfect to the perfect creator, simply because it is inferior to the perfect creator. It's perfect in the relative sense... to the creator.
For example, a human cannot create a an exact replica of himself, but he can make a robot and consider it the perfect robot, simply because he can make it no better - he can add nothing to it to enhance it... but it function exactly the way he made it to.
Thus to him, it is perfect.

A perfect being comes up very lacking creating such imperfection.
You got that right.

Clearly, mankind has it wrong. If mankind has it wrong, then what is the Truth?? How can the Math add up perfectly?
The Bible has it right. All you need to do is read the Bible, and humbly accept the direction it gives. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (John 8:32), because God's word is truth. John 17:17

This time-based causal universe is perfect for learning. Learning and growing requires free will. Why? If one did not have free will one would choose the opposite as soon as one were free just to Discover what was missed. We are all learning and growing through our free choices and what returns from our choices. When one understands all sides, intelligence will pick the Best Choices. In a sense, we are all learning and growing our way to perfection.
This is one reason free will was really important and necessary.
We learn that independence from the creator does not lead to perfection, but leads us away from perfection.
So it becomes clear to all who use godly wisdom and not worldly thinking, that we need God - Returning to him leads to perfection.
See. God is wise in allowing free will.

God is perfect. What people do not realize is that God isn't through creating us yet. WE are all in the learning and growing stage. WE are all walking toward our perfection.
I agree with you partially here.
We are indeed learning and growing, and walking toward perfection... only if we are learning the Christ, and submitting humbly to God.
"But after you have suffered a little while, the God of all undeserved kindness, who called you to his everlasting glory in union with Christ, will himself finish your training. He will make you firm, he will make you strong, he will firmly ground you." (1 Peter 5:10 ; Ephesians 4:17-6:13)

There is way too much to learn in one lifetime. Since there is no time limit on learning, no child will be left behind. No child will be discarded or fried in Hell.

Don't you see? It's the only way the Math will add up. It's the only way there are no missing pieces.
I see that. You are seeing what I see, but only partially.
I like your expression - no time limit to learning. Very very true.
The Bible speaks of a thousand years after this life time, and then eternity after the thousand years... only for those who show themselves citizen who allow themselves to be trained by the one who makes this possible.
So yes. I see children learning and growing forever in righteousness and perfection.
That won't happen with the wicked around. They have to go. Psalms 37:9-11

A Leopard does not change it's spots. If all the physics of this world add up perfectly, so must everything about God and the people factor.
Ah. So you disagree with evolution.
A leopard indeed remains the same.
Yes. God does not change. People do.
This is not rocket science. It is a known fact that people change.

Sin does not exist!!
It doesn't!!? What is sin?

On the other hand, through our choices we choose what lessons we are to learn. May we all be wise enough not to choose hard lessons for ourselves, but if we do, we won't be condemned. We will be taught until we understand what the Best choices really are.
Wrong choices? What's a wrong choice? Who decides that? Taught by whom... Who teaches us? What are we supposed to understand? How will we know if we understand what we are supposed to?

The Math adds up!!
Let's see if it does.
By the way, how do I know if your Math is correct, when it differs to John Brown's, and Betty, Mary, and Tom?

 

[Bird123]

Whether the math adds up or not all depends upon what is on each side of the equation.

Show me your Math. What I have seen so far does not add up. What I have said does add up.

 

[Trailblazer]

Show me your Math. What I have seen so far does not add up. What I have said does add up.

You do your Math differently so your Math adds up for you and my Math adds up for me.
So if I showed you my Math, you'd say it doesn't add up.

 

[Bird123]

Okay, let's take a step back, and analyze your post, piece by piece.

Your Math does not add up.
The first presumption you made is that your Math is the ultimate. Why would you do that when you know how limited humans are... not to mention, wrong 98.5% of the time.

If God is perfect, God would know that given free will that His creation would not be perfect.
The second presumption you made, is that perfection means what you envision - uncontrollable knowledge. In other words automatic knowledge that requires no manual direction.
Where did you see that written as perfection? Even robots need to be fed the knowledge they have, and all of it doesn't process all at once. The robot could not make decisions and would malfunction.
Perfection does not mean that.

Further, God would know exactly that none of them would come out perfect
Considering your presumption above doesn't stand, they were considered by God, able to reach the perfection God set for them, since this perfection is relative, and not absolute.
Mere superior beings cannot be absolutely perfect.

A perfect being comes up very lacking creating such imperfection.
A perfect being can only create lesser perfection, but that lesser perfection is not imperfect to the perfect creator, simply because it is inferior to the perfect creator. It's perfect in the relative sense... to the creator.
For example, a human cannot create a an exact replica of himself, but he can make a robot and consider it the perfect robot, simply because he can make it no better - he can add nothing to it to enhance it... but it function exactly the way he made it to.
Thus to him, it is perfect.

A perfect being comes up very lacking creating such imperfection.
You got that right.

Clearly, mankind has it wrong. If mankind has it wrong, then what is the Truth?? How can the Math add up perfectly?
The Bible has it right. All you need to do is read the Bible, and humbly accept the direction it gives. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (John 8:32), because God's word is truth. John 17:17

This time-based causal universe is perfect for learning. Learning and growing requires free will. Why? If one did not have free will one would choose the opposite as soon as one were free just to Discover what was missed. We are all learning and growing through our free choices and what returns from our choices. When one understands all sides, intelligence will pick the Best Choices. In a sense, we are all learning and growing our way to perfection.
This is one reason free will was really important and necessary.
We learn that independence from the creator does not lead to perfection, but leads us away from perfection.
So it becomes clear to all who use godly wisdom and not worldly thinking, that we need God - Returning to him leads to perfection.
See. God is wise in allowing free will.

God is perfect. What people do not realize is that God isn't through creating us yet. WE are all in the learning and growing stage. WE are all walking toward our perfection.
I agree with you partially here.
We are indeed learning and growing, and walking toward perfection... only if we are learning the Christ, and submitting humbly to God.
"But after you have suffered a little while, the God of all undeserved kindness, who called you to his everlasting glory in union with Christ, will himself finish your training. He will make you firm, he will make you strong, he will firmly ground you." (1 Peter 5:10 ; Ephesians 4:17-6:13)

There is way too much to learn in one lifetime. Since there is no time limit on learning, no child will be left behind. No child will be discarded or fried in Hell.

Don't you see? It's the only way the Math will add up. It's the only way there are no missing pieces.
I see that. You are seeing what I see, but only partially.
I like your expression - no time limit to learning. Very very true.
The Bible speaks of a thousand years after this life time, and then eternity after the thousand years... only for those who show themselves citizen who allow themselves to be trained by the one who makes this possible.
So yes. I see children learning and growing forever in righteousness and perfection.
That won't happen with the wicked around. They have to go. Psalms 37:9-11

A Leopard does not change it's spots. If all the physics of this world add up perfectly, so must everything about God and the people factor.
Ah. So you disagree with evolution.
A leopard indeed remains the same.
Yes. God does not change. People do.
This is not rocket science. It is a known fact that people change.

Sin does not exist!!
It doesn't!!? What is sin?

On the other hand, through our choices we choose what lessons we are to learn. May we all be wise enough not to choose hard lessons for ourselves, but if we do, we won't be condemned. We will be taught until we understand what the Best choices really are.
Wrong choices? What's a wrong choice? Who decides that? Taught by whom... Who teaches us? What are we supposed to understand? How will we know if we understand what we are supposed to?

The Math adds up!!
Let's see if it does.
By the way, how do I know if your Math is correct, when it differs to John Brown's, and Betty, Mary, and Tom?

your quote:The second presumption you made, is that perfection means what you envision - uncontrollable knowledge.
My Answer: Knowledge is knowledge. Control is a petty thing mankind values.

your quote:since this perfection is relative, and not absolute.
Mere superior beings cannot be absolutely perfect.
My Answer: This brings your God coming up lacking. If God created so many people imperfect, why keep making imperfect people. Work on the design. Why would a superior being come up lacking so badly??

your quote:A perfect being can only create lesser perfection,
My Answer: Who made this rule??

your quote:but that lesser perfection is not imperfect to the perfect creator, simply because it is inferior to the perfect creator. It's perfect in the relative sense... to the creator.
My Answer:These are just excuses in order to ignore the facts. If you see others as imperfect, how can God be blind to it? Why does your god not strive for perfection in His Actions??

your quote:For example, a human cannot create a an exact replica of himself,
My Answer: Since we are Spiritual beings in our true natures, mankind has not the capability of duplicating that, however cloning can replicate the physical being identical.

your quote:The Bible has it right. All you need to do is read the Bible, and humbly accept the direction it gives.
My Answer: One who seeks Real Truth does not accept. Seeking the Real Truth has nothing to do with accepting beliefs. Beliefs merely point a direction by which one searches for the Real Truth. To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. When one blindly accepts, one no longer questions.

your quote:Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (John 8:32), because God's word is truth. John 17:17
My Answer: The Bible was written by mankind. It is not the word of God. If you really knew God, it would be clear that the Bible along with the world's holy books reflect mankind more than anything else. Mankind values so many petty things like judging, blaming, hating, controlling, condemning, punishing,intimidating, coercing and the list goes on. This is not God. This is mankind. Mankind destroys what is not easily fixed so you have your god do the same. Why is your god not capable of fixing the people you deem evil? Why is your god so Lacking in ability??

your quote:We learn that independence from the creator does not lead to perfection,
My Answer: Do you really think you are ever independent from the creator??? When you create a We are good They are bad, you are teaching people to hate. In God's eyes it has never ever been a we against they. It is an US!! Does religion create a we against they because they value the petty thing of Pay Back?? Do people want God to hurt others that have hurt them? Is this really a higher Level?? Isn't the Higher Level to teach all the children to make the Best choices all within the realm of free will??

your quote:submitting humbly to God.
My Answer: God is Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. This physical world is not for God. It is about US. It has never ever been about the petty things of ruling or being submissive. Life is the education of God's children. It has never been we against they. It's the education of ALL CHILDREN!!

your quote:That won't happen with the wicked around. They have to go
My Answer: Why?? Is God really so helpless God can't fix a few wayward kids??? This is mankind's petty need for payback.

your quote:Ah. So you disagree with evolution.
My Answer: This is just an expression. God created the universe to unfold into what we have today and beyond. The beauty of it is that God did it in such a way that mankind would be able to figure it all out in time. It's just like a seed grows into a giant tree. Do not discount evolution.

your quote:It doesn't!!? What is sin?
My Answer: Sin is no more than a creation of mankind. It does not exist with God. It is an excuse to divide the children. There are only free choices and children learning in this time-based causal universe from the results of those choices. When one understands all sides, intelligence will make the Best choices. Since everyone will end up making the Best choices, there is no need to define good and evil. There is no need to hate.

your quote:By the way, how do I know if your Math is correct, when it differs to John Brown's, and Betty, Mary, and Tom?[/QUOTE]
My Answer: It is not about beliefs. It's not about following. It's about learning and growing. The math is right when you Understand how everything does add up. Each person's discovery is in their own hands. People can only point as I have.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

You do your Math differently so your Math adds up for you and my Math adds up for me.
So if I showed you my Math, you'd say it doesn't add up.

Take the feelings and beliefs out of Math and it will always add up regardless of who or where you are.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Take the feelings and beliefs out of Math and it will always add up regardless of who or where you are.

That also applies to your feelings and beliefs.

 

[Bird123]

That also applies to your feelings and beliefs.

The Truth stares you in the face. God hides nothing. That is why there has never been a need for mankind's holy books that reflect mankind so well.
You say no one can understand God. I don't think you even try.
On the journey to Discover anything, do you think you will always being trying to follow another. Why is that?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

The Truth stares you in the face. God hides nothing.

The Truth about God is revealed in the holy books, but God hides whatever He damn well pleases to hide.
God reveals His Will and His Attributes through His Messengers but He hides His Essence.

 

[nPeace]

your quote:The second presumption you made, is that perfection means what you envision - uncontrollable knowledge.
My Answer: Knowledge is knowledge. Control is a petty thing mankind values.

According to whom?

your quote:since this perfection is relative, and not absolute.
Mere superior beings cannot be absolutely perfect.
My Answer: This brings your God coming up lacking. If God created so many people imperfect, why keep making imperfect people. Work on the design. Why would a superior being come up lacking so badly??

Where did you read of God creating so many imperfect people? It's not in the Bible.

your quote:A perfect being can only create lesser perfection,
My Answer: Who made this rule??

The Math.

your quote:but that lesser perfection is not imperfect to the perfect creator, simply because it is inferior to the perfect creator. It's perfect in the relative sense... to the creator.
My Answer:These are just excuses in order to ignore the facts. If you see others as imperfect, how can God be blind to it? Why does your god not strive for perfection in His Actions??

Huh???

your quote:For example, a human cannot create a an exact replica of himself,
My Answer: Since we are Spiritual beings in our true natures, mankind has not the capability of duplicating that, however cloning can replicate the physical being identical.

We are spiritual beings? Where did you get that from? Please share your source with me.

your quote:The Bible has it right. All you need to do is read the Bible, and humbly accept the direction it gives.
My Answer: One who seeks Real Truth does not accept. Seeking the Real Truth has nothing to do with accepting beliefs. Beliefs merely point a direction by which one searches for the Real Truth. To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. When one blindly accepts, one no longer questions.

Accepting beliefs? I said nothing about accepting beliefs. Neither did Jesus, nor his followers. They all spoke of accepting truth.

your quote:Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (John 8:32), because God's word is truth. John 17:17
My Answer: The Bible was written by mankind. It is not the word of God. If you really knew God, it would be clear that the Bible along with the world's holy books reflect mankind more than anything else. Mankind values so many petty things like judging, blaming, hating, controlling, condemning, punishing,intimidating, coercing and the list goes on. This is not God. This is mankind. Mankind destroys what is not easily fixed so you have your god do the same. Why is your god not capable of fixing the people you deem evil? Why is your god so Lacking in ability??

It's Jesus' God... and Jesus said, you do not know God. Why? Because you do not listen to what Jesus revealed about his father, to those he wish.
If you don't listen to Jesus, how can you claim to know God? Please share with us, your source of knowledge.
Are you not a man? Then your knowledge is from man, if you tell me God speaks to you. So I hope that's not what you are going to tell me.

your quote:We learn that independence from the creator does not lead to perfection,
My Answer: Do you really think you are ever independent from the creator??? When you create a We are good They are bad, you are teaching people to hate. In God's eyes it has never ever been a we against they. It is an US!! Does religion create a we against they because they value the petty thing of Pay Back?? Do people want God to hurt others that have hurt them? Is this really a higher Level?? Isn't the Higher Level to teach all the children to make the Best choices all within the realm of free will??

We can depend on ourselves, yes. Many are doing that, when they rely on their own wisdom, and strength.
They choose to be their own God, and choose what is right for themselves.
Is there anything such as bad? Should we hate what is bad, or should we love the bad?

your quote:submitting humbly to God.
My Answer: God is Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. This physical world is not for God. It is about US. It has never ever been about the petty things of ruling or being submissive. Life is the education of God's children. It has never been we against they. It's the education of ALL CHILDREN!!

Please share with me, where I can find this knowledge. Is this knowledge you speak of available to me, and the 8 billion people on earth?

your quote:That won't happen with the wicked around. They have to go
My Answer: Why?? Is God really so helpless God can't fix a few wayward kids??? This is mankind's petty need for payback.

Fix? Fix? What happened... Did a wire come loose, and just needs reconnecting?
Are we talking about robots here, or agents with an ability to hate passionately?
I'm open to hearing you though. If I am selfish, and hate righteousness, please explain the best way to fix me.

your quote:Ah. So you disagree with evolution.
My Answer: This is just an expression. God created the universe to unfold into what we have today and beyond. The beauty of it is that God did it in such a way that mankind would be able to figure it all out in time. It's just like a seed grows into a giant tree. Do not discount evolution.

I see evolution everyday. The theory of evolution is a different story.

your quote:It doesn't!!? What is sin?
My Answer: Sin is no more than a creation of mankind. It does not exist with God. It is an excuse to divide the children. There are only free choices and children learning in this time-based causal universe from the results of those choices. When one understands all sides, intelligence will make the Best choices. Since everyone will end up making the Best choices, there is no need to define good and evil. There is no need to hate.

Is there any part of the Bible you agree with, or do you reject all of it?

your quote:By the way, how do I know if your Math is correct, when it differs to John Brown's, and Betty, Mary, and Tom?
My Answer: It is not about beliefs. It's not about following. It's about learning and growing. The math is right when you Understand how everything does add up. Each person's discovery is in their own hands. People can only point as I have.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Following what, may I ask?

 

[Bird123]

The Truth about God is revealed in the holy books, but God hides whatever He damn well pleases to hide.
God reveals His Will and His Attributes through His Messengers but He hides His Essence.

your quote:but God hides whatever He damn well pleases to hide.
My Answer: This speaks to some of those petty things you value as so many do. Ruling, controlling, might makes right, your way or the highway, blindly accepting. Do you ever question those beliefs? What is your god hiding? For what purpose is the truth being kept from people? This is not God!! Isn't it really only about those valued petty things? Indeed, you have much to learn!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

According to whom?


Where did you read of God creating so many imperfect people? It's not in the Bible.


The Math.


Huh???


We are spiritual beings? Where did you get that from? Please share your source with me.


Accepting beliefs? I said nothing about accepting beliefs. Neither did Jesus, nor his followers. They all spoke of accepting truth.


It's Jesus' God... and Jesus said, you do not know God. Why? Because you do not listen to what Jesus revealed about his father, to those he wish.
If you don't listen to Jesus, how can you claim to know God? Please share with us, your source of knowledge.
Are you not a man? Then your knowledge is from man, if you tell me God speaks to you. So I hope that's not what you are going to tell me.


We can depend on ourselves, yes. Many are doing that, when they rely on their own wisdom, and strength.
They choose to be their own God, and choose what is right for themselves.
Is there anything such as bad? Should we hate what is bad, or should we love the bad?


Please share with me, where I can find this knowledge. Is this knowledge you speak of available to me, and the 8 billion people on earth?


Fix? Fix? What happened... Did a wire come loose, and just needs reconnecting?
Are we talking about robots here, or agents with an ability to hate passionately?
I'm open to hearing you though. If I am selfish, and hate righteousness, please explain the best way to fix me.


I see evolution everyday. The theory of evolution is a different story.


Is there any part of the Bible you agree with, or do you reject all of it?


Following what, may I ask?

your quote:According to whom?
My Answer: Seems understanding that controlling rather than allowing freedom is petty and a lower level is something you have yet to Discover for yourself.

your quote:Where did you read of God creating so many imperfect people? It's not in the Bible.
My Answer: All those sinners can't make it to Heaven does not describe perfection. Further, does not the bible teach few will make it??

your quote:The Math.
My Answer: Suppose you clone a replica of you. Physically would they not be equal in perfection??

your quote:Huh???
My Answer: I'll repeat:These are just excuses in order to ignore the facts. If you see others as imperfect, how can God be blind to it? Why does your god not strive for perfection in His Actions??

 

[Bird123]

According to whom?


Where did you read of God creating so many imperfect people? It's not in the Bible.


The Math.


Huh???


We are spiritual beings? Where did you get that from? Please share your source with me.


Accepting beliefs? I said nothing about accepting beliefs. Neither did Jesus, nor his followers. They all spoke of accepting truth.


It's Jesus' God... and Jesus said, you do not know God. Why? Because you do not listen to what Jesus revealed about his father, to those he wish.
If you don't listen to Jesus, how can you claim to know God? Please share with us, your source of knowledge.
Are you not a man? Then your knowledge is from man, if you tell me God speaks to you. So I hope that's not what you are going to tell me.


We can depend on ourselves, yes. Many are doing that, when they rely on their own wisdom, and strength.
They choose to be their own God, and choose what is right for themselves.
Is there anything such as bad? Should we hate what is bad, or should we love the bad?


Please share with me, where I can find this knowledge. Is this knowledge you speak of available to me, and the 8 billion people on earth?


Fix? Fix? What happened... Did a wire come loose, and just needs reconnecting?
Are we talking about robots here, or agents with an ability to hate passionately?
I'm open to hearing you though. If I am selfish, and hate righteousness, please explain the best way to fix me.


I see evolution everyday. The theory of evolution is a different story.


Is there any part of the Bible you agree with, or do you reject all of it?


Following what, may I ask?

To continue
Your quote:We are spiritual beings? Where did you get that from? Please share your source with me.
My Answer: I have direct experience to this.

your quote:Accepting beliefs? I said nothing about accepting beliefs. Neither did Jesus, nor his followers. They all spoke of accepting truth.
My Answer: Have you ever met Jesus? You have chosen to believe that stories written by mankind in the bible is truth. These reflect mankind's view not God.

your quote:It's Jesus' God... and Jesus said, you do not know God. Why? Because you do not listen to what Jesus revealed about his father, to those he wish.
If you don't listen to Jesus, how can you claim to know God? Please share with us, your source of knowledge.
Are you not a man? Then your knowledge is from man, if you tell me God speaks to you. So I hope that's not what you are going to tell me.
My Answer: All the secrets of God and the universe stare us all in the face. Can you see? How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how. The knowledge was there all along. God isn't using holy books. Mankind is. God places knowledge all around us. It waits to be Discovered.

At a young age, I discovered holy books simply did not add up. I started my journey to Discovery. I studied the actions of God just like the birds flying. Through years I put the pieces of the puzzle together. When I acquired enough understanding God did pay me a visit. God doesn't give answers. Why not? Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge.
God will never tell you what to do like mankind does. It's another reason God does not visit more people. God will never intimidate your choices as mankind does. True learning comes through free choices. Each must make their own to really learn.

The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view. I cry that. Mankind seems to value all those petty things so much like ruling, controlling, judging, condemning, hating, intimidating, coercing and attaining power over others that they are blind to so very much. Oh, let's not forget mankind's endless desire for payback. I have found no religion that understands God. Can people who blindly follow religion ever see any more than those people they follow? God gave everyone a different view to guaranty mankind a larger view than any one person could have. Seems people want to be blind to all but a box of beliefs written by mankind. Control at it's best.

your quote:We can depend on ourselves, yes. Many are doing that, when they rely on their own wisdom, and strength.
They choose to be their own God, and choose what is right for themselves.
Is there anything such as bad? Should we hate what is bad, or should we love the bad?
My Answer: In order to choose the best choices, each must choose for themselves what the best choices really are. Those who attempt to choose for others end up spreading hate when they value the petty need to control the actions of others.

your quotelease share with me, where I can find this knowledge. Is this knowledge you speak of available to me, and the 8 billion people on earth?
My Answer: This knowledge stares us all in the face. Everything about God adds up. The people factor adds up as well as the physics of this world. If it doesn't add up, it's not God. This is why those holy books do not add up. They are not the truth. They are the ideas and beliefs of mankind.

your quote:Fix? Fix? What happened... Did a wire come loose, and just needs reconnecting?
Are we talking about robots here, or agents with an ability to hate passionately?
I'm open to hearing you though. If I am selfish, and hate righteousness, please explain the best way to fix me.
My Answer: There is understanding, then there is lack of understanding. When one understands all sides, intelligence will make the best choices. Until then, God will educate until there is Understanding. Hell does not exist. On the other hand sometimes the lessons people choose for themselves seems like Hell. No child is left behind regardless of their choices.

your quote:Is there any part of the Bible you agree with, or do you reject all of it?
My Answer: The Bible has some good things on Love. If I had to teach the Bible, that is the only part I would.


That's what I see. It's very clear!! Sorry about the split answers. The first part posted before I was ready.

 

[Trailblazer]

your quote:but God hides whatever He damn well pleases to hide.
My Answer: This speaks to some of those petty things you value as so many do. Ruling, controlling, might makes right, your way or the highway, blindly accepting.

Your Answer was not even related to what I said.
God hides whatever He damn well pleases to hide because God is omnipotent so He can do whatever he damn well pleases.

Do you ever question those beliefs? What is your god hiding? For what purpose is the truth being kept from people? This is not God!! Isn't it really only about those valued petty things? Indeed, you have much to learn!!

I never said that God is keeping the truth from people, I said that God hides His Essence.
God reveals His truth through His Messengers.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Truth about what? Jesus revealed the truth about God.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Your Answer was not even related to what I said.
God hides whatever He damn well pleases to hide because God is omnipotent so He can do whatever he damn well pleases.

I never said that God is keeping the truth from people, I said that God hides His Essence.
God reveals His truth through His Messengers.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Truth about what? Jesus revealed the truth about God.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

your quote:Your Answer was not even related to what I said.
My Answer: What else are you blind to see?
Do you ever question yourself as to why you do things? Is it really better acting on feelings rather than Discovering yourself?

your quote:God hides whatever He damn well pleases to hide because God is omnipotent so He can do whatever he damn well pleases.
My Answer: This is all you. Do you not see your reflection in this? Why do you do this? Do you feel a need? Does it really give you power, strength or make you believable? This is not God. This is your idea of what God should be. Ask yourself WHY??

your quote:I said that God hides His Essence.
My Answer: God is hiding nothing!! How long did mankind watch birds fly before mankind figured out how? Is God really hiding things or does a narrow view prevent people from seeing things? Why choose that narrow view??

your quote:Jesus revealed the truth about God.
My Answer: Isn't this just a Belief of yours? Jesus has never said a word to you. The people who wrote about Jesus are trying to get you to believe this is true. Why? To get followers??
Ok, I have an open mind. Tell me a Truth Jesus revealed to you. Let's see if I can agree this is God. If you say God is sending messengers to convince you of anything, we both know deep down God has no middle men. Do you use middle men in your relationships??? If you tell me you do, I have much more work to do than I realized.

That's what I see. It's very very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

My quote:Your Answer was not even related to what I said.
Your Answer: What else are you blind to see?
Do you ever question yourself as to why you do things? Is it really better acting on feelings rather than Discovering yourself?

Do you ever question yourself as to why you do things?
Do you ever question yourself as to why you believe things?

My quote:God hides whatever He damn well pleases to hide because God is omnipotent so He can do whatever he damn well pleases.
Your Answer: This is all you. Do you not see your reflection in this? Why do you do this? Do you feel a need? Does it really give you power, strength or make you believable? This is not God. This is your idea of what God should be. Ask yourself WHY??

This is all you. Do you not see your reflection in this? Why do you do this? Do you feel a need? Does it really give you power, strength or make you believable? This is not God. This is your idea of what God should be. Ask yourself WHY?? I think I know why you do this, so you can be in control.

You do not know what God is because you have no way to know God since you reject all scriptures, which are the only was we can ever know anything about God.

My quote:I said that God hides His Essence.
Your Answer: God is hiding nothing!! How long did mankind watch birds fly before mankind figured out how? Is God really hiding things or does a narrow view prevent people from seeing things? Why choose that narrow view??

God hides whatever he chooses to hide and reveals what He chooses to reveal, because an omnipotent God only does what He chooses to do, not what you want Him to do.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209

My quote:Jesus revealed the truth about God.
Your Answer: Isn't this just a Belief of yours? Jesus has never said a word to you. The people who wrote about Jesus are trying to get you to believe this is true. Why? To get followers??

And God has never said a word to you, so why do you believe what you believe?
if you believe God has said something to you, you have the same burden of proof as Jesus had. How have you met your burden?

What motive would those who wrote about Jesus have to garner followers?

Ok, I have an open mind. Tell me a Truth Jesus revealed to you. Let's see if I can agree this is God. If you say God is sending messengers to convince you of anything, we both know deep down God has no middle men. Do you use middle men in your relationships??? If you tell me you do, I have much more work to do than I realized.

I do not need middle men in my relationships to other humans for obvious reasons -- We are both humans so we can understand each other. But God is not human so we cannot EVER understand God directly, without a Mediator, what you call a middle man. Jesus was one such Mediator.

Below is the explanation as to why we need a Mediator who has a twofold nature; thus He can understand and communicate back and forth from God to humans.

“To every discerning and illumined heart it is evident that God, the unknowable Essence, the divine Being, is immensely exalted beyond every human attribute, such as corporeal existence, ascent and descent, egress and regress…1
No tie of direct intercourse can possibly bind Him to His creatures.He standeth exalted beyond and above all separation and union, all proximity and remoteness. No sign can indicate His presence or His absence…….” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 98

“And since there can be no tie of direct intercourse to bind the one true God with His creation, and no resemblance whatever can exist between the transient and the Eternal, the contingent and the Absolute, He hath ordained that in every age and dispensation a pure and stainless Soul be made manifest in the kingdoms of earth and heaven. Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself.....The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67

That's what I see. It's very very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Do you ever question yourself as to why you do things?
Do you ever question yourself as to why you believe things?

This is all you. Do you not see your reflection in this? Why do you do this? Do you feel a need? Does it really give you power, strength or make you believable? This is not God. This is your idea of what God should be. Ask yourself WHY?? I think I know why you do this, so you can be in control.

You do not know what God is because you have no way to know God since you reject all scriptures, which are the only was we can ever know anything about God.

God hides whatever he chooses to hide and reveals what He chooses to reveal, because an omnipotent God only does what He chooses to do, not what you want Him to do.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209

And God has never said a word to you, so why do you believe what you believe?
if you believe God has said something to you, you have the same burden of proof as Jesus had. How have you met your burden?

What motive would those who wrote about Jesus have to garner followers?

I do not need middle men in my relationships to other humans for obvious reasons -- We are both humans so we can understand each other. But God is not human so we cannot EVER understand God directly, without a Mediator, what you call a middle man. Jesus was one such Mediator.

Below is the explanation as to why we need a Mediator who has a twofold nature; thus He can understand and communicate back and forth from God to humans.

“To every discerning and illumined heart it is evident that God, the unknowable Essence, the divine Being, is immensely exalted beyond every human attribute, such as corporeal existence, ascent and descent, egress and regress…1
No tie of direct intercourse can possibly bind Him to His creatures.He standeth exalted beyond and above all separation and union, all proximity and remoteness. No sign can indicate His presence or His absence…….” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 98

“And since there can be no tie of direct intercourse to bind the one true God with His creation, and no resemblance whatever can exist between the transient and the Eternal, the contingent and the Absolute, He hath ordained that in every age and dispensation a pure and stainless Soul be made manifest in the kingdoms of earth and heaven. Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself.....The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67

That's what I see. It's very very clear!!

Why do you build walls with your beliefs that keeps you from God? Have you been taught to Fear?? If one tells you that you can't or you must not, does that push you into inability?

What purpose did the writers about Jesus have? When you control numbers of people is creates a certain amount of power to shape things to your will. Did it work? Constantine I converted to Christianity. How much shaping were they able to do after that?

God places Truth in the world. It waits for those who are ready to Discover it. After God does this, God makes no demands. I merely copy God. God's great educational system runs on free will. God will never tell His children what to do, nor will God send messengers to tell kids what to do. God is never going to intimidate or coerce anyone's choices. You might want God to control others for you, however this is not going to happen.

It's all a test of Intelligence. Choose what you wish to learn through your free choices. I think it's best to Discover oneself first so the choices made are exactly what one does want to learn.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you build walls with your beliefs that keeps you from God? Have you been taught to Fear?? If one tells you that you can't or you must not, does that push you into inability?

What purpose did the writers about Jesus have? When you control numbers of people is creates a certain amount of power to shape things to your will. Did it work? Constantine I converted to Christianity. How much shaping were they able to do after that?

God places Truth in the world. It waits for those who are ready to Discover it. After God does this, God makes no demands. I merely copy God. God's great educational system runs on free will. God will never tell His children what to do, nor will God send messengers to tell kids what to do. God is never going to intimidate or coerce anyone's choices. You might want God to control others for you, however this is not going to happen.

It's all a test of Intelligence. Choose what you wish to learn through your free choices. I think it's best to Discover oneself first so the choices made are exactly what one does want to learn.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

We have covered all this ground before. Is there any reason to cover it again?
My beliefs are not going to change and your beliefs are not going to change.

You deny that you have beliefs but since you do not any proof of what you say all you have are beliefs
The only difference between MY beliefs and YOUR beliefs is that my beliefs are religious and yours are man-made, created by you.

I will tell you what I agree with and what I disagree with and why:

You said:
God places Truth in the world. It waits for those who are ready to Discover it. After God does this, God makes no demands. I merely copy God.

I do not believe that God places Truth in this world, because that does not even make sense. How would God do that without a Messenger who reveals God's Truth? How could anyone know what is God's Truth?

You said:
God's great educational system runs on free will. God will never tell His children what to do, nor will God send messengers to tell kids what to do. God is never going to intimidate or coerce anyone's choices. You might want God to control others for you, however this is not going to happen.

God's educational system runs on free will and Messengers. The Messengers do not intimidate anyone's choices, their teachings and laws guide our choices in the direction that God wants us to go, but it will always be a choice.

You said:
It's all a test of Intelligence. Choose what you wish to learn through your free choices. I think it's best to Discover oneself first so the choices made are exactly what one does want to learn.

The problem with that is that what some people choose to learn is not what God wants them to learn, and not what they will need to know in preparation for the next life, and that is why we need a Messenger to guide us in the right direction, just as children need parents to guide them until they become adults.