For resident Christians:
See #9 Jewish & Judaism FAQs
See the information in the spoiler on post #73 Theosis, Salvation, and Jesus
See #9 Jewish & Judaism FAQs
See the information in the spoiler on post #73 Theosis, Salvation, and Jesus
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Surprisingly enough Judaism is not merely Christianity without Christ. Who would have thought it?For resident Christians:
See #9 Jewish & Judaism FAQs
See the information in the spoiler on post #73 Theosis, Salvation, and Jesus
Sadly, a lot of what Christians 'learn' about Judaism comes from Christian sources; including Christian translations of Jewish Scriptures they don't even know are biased.Surprisingly enough Judaism is not merely Christianity without Christ. Who would have thought it?
I don't see any evidence of that they understood Hebrew. If the authors of the NT did understand Hebrew, as you claim, it is interesting that no text from their era that is in Hebrew survived. Given that the Septuagint, according to the legend, was only of the Torah and not the rest of the Tanakh we can see why they didn't get very far in the Jewish world with what they were promoting. Also, given that the original Jewish beleivers in Jesus disappeared off the historical map within 2 generations of their start - this would show that when a Jew attaches themselve to such a movement it doesn't go very well for very long. Peter for example, is described in the NT as having had a family. Where are his jewish descendants now?
Concerning that "Pentecost" claim. I have been asking this for a bit and maybe you can provide an answer. Acts 2:1-11 claims that Jews from Parthia, and Medes, and Elam, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyren witnessed the events mentioned in the text. Can anyone produce the names of a few of the Jews from those regions and their 1st hand accounts of what took place? If you don't have 1st hand accounts from those regions can you provide 2nd, 3rd, etc. accounts from Jews who accounted for the events mentioned in Acts 2:1-11.
Or you could both be wrong, you know. Most religions don't care about your messiah or the Jewish messiah.
We have a list of requirements...come on, you must have heard of this before, we say it on RF at least every other week...nothing on the list about the Messiah needing to prove to Christians he isn't an anti-Christ.
And that's your "personal conclusion". Others see truth differently. Your religion is merely one of thousands.Well, we will all find out in time!
The question is, Will it then be too late to save one's soul from the fire? Why did Paul say that each of us should seek our own salvation with fear and trembling?
Pontius Pilate asked Jesus the question, What is truth?
[On a different occasion] Jesus Christ said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. [John 14:6]
There's a challenge in life, and that's to make sense of the various claims that we find presented. I was not born a Christian. I looked at various beliefs and faiths before coming to my personal conclusion about truth. Not that my journey is yet over, or the victory won!
That's okay, I never expected you to think it was "good enough". Otherwise you wouldn't be a Christian...That's not good enough, Harel13.
"Chosen"? The first guy to accomplish all of the tasks is him. That's it.So give me an idea of how such a man will be chosen.
He won't need to once he's completed all of the tasks...that's kind of the point of the tasks...it's a little bit like Arthur pulling the sword out of the stone - you complete the task, you're "the chosen one".Will he appear before a court of religious elders to present his credentials?
Obviously not, as he is to be a descendant of David...Will he be a Cohen?
Why should he?Will he remain single and celibate?
Maybe yes, maybe no. It's not a deal-breaker.Will he be born in Bethlehem, the city of David?
What, like oil falling from heaven? Now that I gotta see.Will he be anointed by the Spirit of God
Perhaps eventually.or even by Elijah?
Perhaps eventually.Will he be a prophet like Moses?
Huh?Will he have a healing ministry?
Definitely.Will he wage war against the enemies of Israel?
I do. Now what?If you have no idea what to expect
then you are way further off than a Christian who can supply numerous prophecies that are fulfilled by Jesus.
Those prophecies are the deal-breakers...very convenient of Jesus to push off those prophecies for his "second coming"...The few prophecies that you say Jesus has not fulfilled CAN STILL be fulfilled at his second coming.
So true. I grew up Baptist in a small southern town where I was only aware of one Jewish person in my class. And I never talked to her about it. All of my 'knowledge' about Judaism came from other Christians. And it was all in support of a Christian narrative. The always implicit, and often explicit, narrative couching Jews as believing all the same things as Christians except for Jesus being the Messiah. It wasn't until 15+ years after leaving Christianity that I was reading The Ritual Bath, when I first began to get a clue about that particular bias.Sadly, a lot of what Christians 'learn' about Judaism comes from Christian sources; including Christians translations of Jewish Scriptures they don't even know are biased.
Exactly, as it is more of a "flashback" than a prophecy.Actually, it is recognized by Jews that some of what Isaiah said was prophecy, and that prophecy doesn't necessarily mean "prediction of the future."
Then how are you to know who is the Messiah?
So you don't deny that the Jewish Messiah, the one you await, is to be born on earth. So let's begin there. You can start to tell me what you believe will happen next. Will he grow up an ultra Orthodox Jew in Mea She'arim?
How do you distinguish the Jew born on earth as the true Messiah? Will he commit sin?
As regards Paul, you should do a little more research. He was a very well educated Jew, and spent much of his time attacking Christians before having his eyes opened (literally).
Paul's teaching is totally consistent with the message delivered by Jesus. And Jesus fulfilled all that the law demanded. His life proved his anointing.
Seeking the names of Jews, not mentioned in the New Testament, who witnessed Pentecost is unrealistic. We have the record provided by Luke, who probably met all the twelve apostles present at the time of the outpouring. The record is well attested and is set within an historical context that has ample documentary and archaeological support.
I am not going through this with you again.
His writings and misquotes tell a different tale.
I don't care if his message is consistent with Jesus, Vishnu, Apollo or Ra. It's not consistent with the Tanakh.
And thus, the Hebrew Torah text that Hashem gave makes it clear that as well we can't rely on such. Seeking eye witnesses is a must if someone wants to claim that something happened historically. Otherwise anyone can claim that something happened and they would not be required to prove it. Further, you stated that Luke "probably" met the twelve apostles. For a Jew, the Torah warns about that also. In fact, the NT provides very little information about the 12 apostles. In any case, this may be acceptable to Christians but Jews were warned by Hashem about accepting things based on a lack of Torah basis and verification.
Simply put, as Yeshayahu Hanavi put it, if it doesn't stand up to simple verification we Jews are commanded to reject it. But like you said, maybe we should all just sit back and let what is going to happen and let the reality prove what is right and what is wrong.
What does this even mean?and he was more Jewish than any Jew on RFs
You should be able to see that the arguments you use against the inspiration of the New Testament can also be applied to the Torah.
I believe the New Testament to be inspired, and on a par with the Torah.
Christian theology uses a Jewish key to unlock the Hebrew Scriptures. That key is Jesus Christ, and he was more Jewish than any Jew on RFs!
That's great! Because we're not taking a middle ground and we do call him a liar and a false prophet.The message of Jesus is uncompromising. You cannot say that Jesus is a great teacher or inspired spiritual leader without acknowledging all that he taught and did. Nor can you reject Jesus' own claims without also labelling him a liar and false prophet who deserved to die. There is no satisfactory middle ground.