Signs of the Times - What’s happening to our world?

[Spirit of Light]

Thanks for your kind thoughts Amanaki.

No, I do not think everyone has to become a Baha'i. All the people of the world are not ready to unite under one religion yet. Based upon what Baha'u'llah wrote, I believe in the distant future there will be one common Faith, but I do not know what it will be called.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91

Very welcome @Trailblazer The more I listen to you guys discussing Baha`i teaching the more I gain an understanding of it

 

[Jim]

What do you think Baha'u'llah meant by unity and what do you think makes it possible?

Thank you for asking. Before I try to answer that question, I’d like to try to clarify for myself some more, where we agree and where we disagree. I’ll be posting some more thoughts about rhat, and hoping for you to correct me if you think I’m misunderstanding you. I’ll make notes of your questions and come back to them later.

 

[Jim]

@Trailblazer I’m thinking now that my views about the kind of unity that Baha’u’llah is aiming for, how it can happen, and how He wants his followers to work together to spread His message, might be very much opposed to your views and the views of other Baha’is in Internet discussions.

How so?

Thank you for asking. See this post.

 

[Jim]

Another one of my disagreements with Baha’is in Internet discussions is about what to do when we disagree with each other about what we’re doing in Internet discussions. When I object to what other Baha’is are doing, sometimes ironically and hypocritically they quote some Baha’i writings as a way of telling me that I should mind my own business. When they object to what I’m doing, sometimes they say or insinuate that I’m violating the Covenant, and sometimes they shun me. What I think Baha’u’llah wants us to do when we have conflicts of interests, where one person’s actions are interfering with what another one is trying to do, is to try to consult about it, and together try to find ways for our actions to complement each other instead of interfering with each other.

 

[Jim]

I’m trying to clarify for myself where I agree and disagree with Baha’is in Internet discussions, and I’m hoping for Baha’is who see these posts to help me with this. One agreement I see between us is about the value and importance of the message of Bahá’u’lláh. Another is about practicing virtues.

One disagreement I see between us is about the kind of unity that Baha’u’llah is aiming for, and how it can happen. It looks to me like what unity means to Baha’is in Internet discussions is that Baha’is should never disagree with each other in public about Baha’i teachings, and that everything we say, including insults and personal attacks, should be wrapped in politeness, diplomacy and kind words. Unity for Baha’is in Internet discussions does not seem to me to include consulting with each other to resolve conflicts of interest between us or to find ways to combine our interests and capacities with some common goals and plans. Unity for Baha’is in Internet discussions does not seem to me to include trying to understand what the House of Justice is promoting for Baha’is to do, to get ideas from that about what to do in Internet discussions. Unity for Baha’is in Internet discussions does not seem to me to include thoughtfulness and consideration for how their behavior affects other people’s enjoyment of the forums, or any concern for how much it repels people from Bahá’u’lláh and the Baha’i Faith, as long as they wrap everything they say in politeness, diplomacy and kind words.

If any Baha’i thinks that I’m misunderstanding or misrepresenting your views, I hope you will tell me.

 

[Trailblazer]

What I think Baha’u’llah wants us to do when we have conflicts of interests, where one person’s actions are interfering with what another one is trying to do, is to try to consult about it, and together try to find ways for our actions to complement each other instead of interfering with each other.

I agree, that consultation is a better way to approach it than to be critical of one another or to be given a lecture.

 

[Jim]

Thanks for your kind thoughts Amanaki.

No, I do not think everyone has to become a Baha'i. All the people of the world are not ready to unite under one religion yet. Based upon what Baha'u'llah wrote, I believe in the distant future there will be one common Faith, but I do not know what it will be called.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91

Another one of my disagreements with Baha’is in Internet discussions is about what Bahá’u’lláh means by “one common faith.” I don’t think that it’s about beliefs at all, except maybe about not having any beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Another one of my disagreements with Baha’is is about what Bahá’u’lláh means by “one common faith.” I don’t think that it’s about beliefs at all, except maybe about not having any beliefs.

I think He meant one common religion. One reason I think that is because of what Baha'u'llah wrote:

“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248

If God exalts the Cause of Baha'u'llah and magnifies His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth, then everyone will be part of one common faith.

 

[Jim]

I think He meant one common religion. One reason I think that is because of what Baha'u'llah wrote:

“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248

If God exalts the Cause of Baha'u'llah and magnifies His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth, then everyone will be part of one common faith.

That might be part of what will lead to one common faith, but I don’t think that what “one common faith” means. I don’t think that it’s about what people think about the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh. Everyone in the world could praise it and agree with everything it says, and that would still not be what I think Bahá’u’lláh means by “one common faith.”

 

[Trailblazer]

That might be part of what will lead to one common faith, but I don’t think that what “one common faith” means. I don’t think that it’s about what people think about the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh. Everyone in the world could praise it and agree with everything it says, and that would still not be what I think Bahá’u’lláh means by “one common faith.”

So what do you think Baha'u'llah means?

 

[Jim]

People might wonder what my disagreements with Baha’is have to do with what’s happening to our world. In some posts I see people promoting Baha’i beliefs as the answer to the world’s problems, and I’m disagreeing with that. I don’t think that Baha’i beliefs are, or ever will be, even part of the answer to the world’s problems. I think they are part of the problems, as much as any other beliefs. When I say “Baha’i beliefs,” what I mean is what Baha’is think they know from their scriptures, that they think can’t be wrong.

 

[Jim]

So what do you think Baha'u'llah means?

I’ll add that to my list of questions to come back to later.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't think Baha'is believe in demons and inheriting sin. Maybe Tony or Trailblazer could give the Baha'i belief on those. 'Cause right now, it's like taking a knife to a gun fight. They don't believe the Bible like you do, so it doesn't work to use the Bible with them.

Thank you for your reply.
Yes, I can see that 'instead of sin' people use the word crime, commit a crime instead of commit a sin.
However, it would seem funny to me to say that one caught speeding has sinned against the motor vehicle code.
But, I suppose a Baha could still compare his thinking with other's thinking on matters.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

............. When I say “Baha’i beliefs,” what I mean is what Baha’is think they know from their scriptures, that they think can’t be wrong.

I wonder, why else would a person belong to a belief unless they think it is the right one _______________

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, I do not think everyone has to become a Baha'i. All the people of the world are not ready to unite under one religion yet. Based upon what Baha'u'llah wrote, I believe in the distant future there will be one common Faith, but I do not know what it will be called.........................

I think a Christian would say in the future it would be called after Christ.
Before the distant future, it will be the soon coming future.
In this soon coming future the 'powers that be' will be saying, " Peace and Security...." but that does Not unite under one religion, but that saying of peace is the ' final signal ' before the political surprisingly goes against the religious world.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think a Christian would say in the future it would be called after Christ.

That is because they "believe" that Christ is going to return.
But if Christ never returns, what will they then call it?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I’ll add that to my list of questions to come back to later.

A question that arises in my mind is, Jim why do you say in your profile. "learning to follow Baha'u'llah" when everything I can read you says, is to discredit Baha`i and its teaching. I may be wrong, but it seems as you disagree more with the teaching and with other Bahais then you are agreeing with teaching and other followers.
If you disagree so much, is teaching the right for you to follow? May there be other paths/teachings that will give you more? Maybe you are not a Baha`i at all?

 

[Jim]

I wonder, why else would a person belong to a belief unless they think it is the right one

“Belong to a belief” is a very good choice of words. That’s brilliant. Perfect. Thank you.

i see belonging to beliefs at the very heart of massive violence in the world today. Maybe it always has been.

 

[Jim]

I’ve changed my religion in my profile, because I think it was confusing people. I’m not a follower of any of the belief systems that people are calling “the Baha’i Faith” in Internet discussions.

 

[Jim]

Does your religion say anything about these times?

According to my religion there are things that anyone can do who wants to, to help reduce and counteract the damage. According to my religion, the disasters of our time caused by humans are part of a disintegration of civilization that has been happening since long before any of us were born, and which might continue for a few more generations. According to my religion, some time in the next few hundred years the lives of all people everywhere will begin to improve. There will be more peace, justice and prosperity for all people everywhere and not just for a few at the expense of all the others. According to my religion, what is needed for that to happen is already happening, and anyone who wants to can be a part of it, without changing their beliefs or their membership in a religion.