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Featured Shroud of Turin is from first AD.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by questfortruth, Jun 26, 2022.

  1. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Are you saying you’re similar to a dog? A cat? Human beings are much more than that, the Bible says we were created in God’s image, this is the reality of the life we live.
     
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  2. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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  3. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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  4. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Similar enough, are you saying we aren't?

    Although as far as i know cats are not self aware but according to recent research dogs may be

    Yes we are animals and share much of our DNA with animals.

    Never seen a picture of god, i have seen pictures of human beings pretending to be god and i have read the bible (several) and yes, it does say we were created in gods image. But i find it interesting that it was said by humans and not by any god
     
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  5. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Non sequitur fallacy. There is no sound argument that ends, "therefore God."

    I don't trust you. Your thinking is undisciplined. Also, I have trouble with your claims about being a mathematician. You don't seem to know what a proof is, or how to construct one.

    Your facts don't justify your supernatural beliefs.
    Read it again: "the WAXS analysis presented here, for the natural aging of the cellulose in the linen of a TS sample, allows us to conclude that it is very probable that the TS is a relic of about 20 centuries old"

    This is why I don't trust your judgment, and also why I have trouble seeing you in any academic setting. You make too many mistakes.

    Nietzsche's nihilism states that there is no inherent meaning or purpose to life or the universe, that no value can be justified, and that reason is inadequate for attaining knowledge. Rejecting an obvious truth sounds more like faith:
    • “If somewhere in the Bible I were to find a passage that said 2 + 2 = 5, I wouldn't question what I am reading in the Bible. I would believe it, accept it as true, and do my best to work it out and understand it."- Pastor Peter laRuffa
    How do you think you're doing? What effect do you suppose your errors have on your ethos? In case you're unfamiliar with the term as used in rhetoric, ethos can be defined as the meta-messages a speaker or writer sends his audience in addition to the explicit meaning of his argument (the logos), such as does he seem knowledgeable, does he seem sincere, does he seem credible, does he seem trustworthy, does he show good judgment, does he seem to have a hidden agenda, is he more interested in convincing with impartial argument or persuading with emotive language or specious argumentation, and the like.

    I tell apologists frequently that they're actual effect is the opposite of their apparent intended effect, but they either don't believe me or don't care. I tell them that their apologetics are intended for non-critically thinking audiences to reassure them their religious beliefs are sound despite the academic community contradicting them, that those beliefs are based in evidence and reason that the indoctrinee cannot follow, but which sound sciency, like your "proofs." That's where apologetics work, not here, where the errors are easily discerned by a host of competent critical thinkers. It has the opposite effect for such people, re-enforcing their convictions that the theist doesn't reason well and that his beliefs are unsound.

    Incidentally, I have no analogous view about saving theists. Nobody needs to be saved from theism, and frankly, I have no way of piercing a faith-based confirmation bias like the one the pastor quoted above seems proud of. He's telling you that his mind is closed to any evidence or argument that contradicts scripture, so what else is left? Appeal to faith? Tell him to just believe it like he does the opposite? Here's the problem for the empiricist interacting with the faith-based thinker:
    • “Water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. What if someone says, "Well, that's not how I choose to think about water."? All we can do is appeal to scientific values. And if he doesn't share those values, the conversation is over. If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?” - Sam Harris
     
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  6. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    I’m not talking about the common design and physical body of animals but even our flesh is different than animals. But talking about our soul and spirit, which are much different than animals.
     
  7. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    MDPI - Wikipedia
    Mercator's projection?
     
    #107 Aupmanyav, Jun 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
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  8. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I don't need the same ego as you, I am quite happy with the scientific explanation that can be shown to be valid as compared to make believe and mythology.

    And as i said at the beginning, has anyone ever seen a soul?
     
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  9. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Same principle
     
  10. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there are reports. It looks like this:

     
  11. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    We can wll make movies, well some of us can.

    Any falsifiable evidence?
     
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  12. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    If there would be no soul, no film about soul will be made. If there is no God, no Religion and no Jew will we have.
     
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  13. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Ah so every science fiction writer didn't write science fiction. Not sure you actually get what you said there

    As for religion, also a human dream
     
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  14. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    Holy Bible is not announced as fiction.
     
  15. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    See how? I’m assuming with your physical eye. I’m not sure but unless you know 100% of everything you couldn’t say no one has ever seen a soul.
    Science is handicapped in the area of spiritual matters so that testing is inadequate. Spiritual matters are discerned by spiritual people.
    Ephesians 2 explains the issue.
     
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  16. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    But i am pretty sure large proportions of it are fictional built around a few incidents and locations enough to give it some credibility to those who need it
     
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  17. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I can say 100% that there is no evidence that anyone has genuinely seen a soul.

    Science does not deal with woo, that is not a handicap but a bonus. Should you ever come up with evidence for the supernatural then science will investigate it.
     
    #117 ChristineM, Jun 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
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  18. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    There is plenty of evidence and haven’t seen the scientists in the deliverance services yet when demons are expelled.
     
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  19. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Right. I'll wait until said evidence is presented
     
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  20. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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