Shows & Movies A Poster Should Watch

[Revoltingest]

I think Pink Floyd's "The Wall" is great for posters.

I have posters for Mad Max &
Buckaroo Banzai Across The 8th Dimension.

 

[Revoltingest]

As is the idea of a "dictatorship of the proletariat". Socialism can do with or without that.
Most socialists now oppose the idea of an "intermittent" dictatorship - because it never is.

Throughout history, every country that has ever
ditched capitalism for socialism has become a
dictatorship or other such authoritarian rule.

They condemn dictatorship.

The problem: Dictatorship is an emergent
property of socialism. Social authoritarianism
is enabled by giving government such great
power that's necessary for economic authoritarianism.
The thing about power is that leaders will always
use all they have.
Socialism's fans always see their dream, but
never view it from a system response or historical
perspective.

Capitalism, especially late stage capitalism like in the US, is not sustainable. It is going to self destruct if left unchecked.

Analysis & evidence?

The real problem is when capitalism is no longer a form of economy but becomes a form of government (a.k.a. "money in politics"). Marx saw this plutocracy and had no other remedy against it than revolution and dictatorship. Except for one or two no socialist (and even the communists) condone dictatorship.

Marx was a dreamer, ungrounded in the
reality of what he proposed. He never tested
his theories, & he never applied any kind of
system analysis, eg, considering failure modes.
He even adopted the utterly loopy premise
that all people would agree to follow his plan.

We have countries with capitalism that are great
places to live. Not all are so, but capitalism's
advantage is that it enables good outcomes.
(Don't read "enable's" as "guarantees".)
Socialism has no such examples...only misery.

 

[Heyo]

Throughout history, every country that has ever
ditched capitalism for socialism has become a
dictatorship or other such authoritarian rule.

The problem: Dictatorship is an emergent
property of socialism. Social authoritarianism
is enabled by giving government such great
power that's necessary for economic authoritarianism.
The thing about power is that leaders will always
use all they have.
Socialism's fans always see their dream, but
never view it from a system response or historical
perspective.

That only applies to your black and white world. I.e. countries were a dictator took over after a revolution. You're only counting as socialist those who went all the way. But there are hybrids where the state own some means of production and allows (regulated) capitalism all while maintaining democracy. And those hybrids tend to fair better than either of the extremes.

Analysis & evidence?

The Limits to Growth is probably the most famous one but there are more and more recent.

Marx was a dreamer, ungrounded in the
reality of what he proposed. He never tested
his theories, & he never applied any kind of
system analysis, eg, considering failure modes.
He even adopted the utterly loopy premise
that all people would agree to follow his plan.

We agree on that one. Though others have tested his hypothesis and his economic analysis is still taught in economics because many of it was spot on.

We have countries with capitalism that are great
places to live. Not all are so, but capitalism's
advantage is that it enables good outcomes.
(Don't read "enable's" as "guarantees".)
Socialism has no such examples...only misery.

Capitalism enables good outcomes when it is restricted.

 

[Revoltingest]

That only applies to your black and white world.

You've yet to adequately address the gray that you claim.

You're only counting as socialist those who went all the way.

Duh.
You're only just now discovering that I mean
exactly what I've been saying all along?

But there are hybrids where the state own some means of production and allows (regulated) capitalism all while maintaining democracy. And those hybrids tend to fair better than either of the extremes.

I've specifically addressed countries that
ditched capitalism in favor of socialism.

 

[Heyo]

You've yet to adequately address the gray that you claim.

Duh.
You're only just now discovering that I mean
exactly what I've been saying all along?

I've specifically addressed countries that
ditched capitalism in favor of socialism.

So, we agree that state owned means of production are not a problem as long as private enterprise is also allowed? That it is the political part (dictatorship) of socialism that is bad not the economical?

 

[Revoltingest]

So, we agree that state owned means of production are not a problem as long as private enterprise is also allowed?

The degree of state ownership is an issue.
I prefer no state ownership of the means of production.
Let the state own common elements, eg, national parks,
justice system, military, public roads. Let private parties
compete with products & services.

That it is the political part (dictatorship) of socialism that is bad not the economical?

The economics of socialism is fundamentally bad.
But the political consequence, ie, political & social
authoritarianism, is a bad consequence of granting
such power that's needed for economic authoritarianism.

 

[Heyo]

The degree of state ownership is an issue.
I prefer no state ownership of the means of production.

I like my state and communally owned suppliers of basic goods and services, like water and public transport. I wouldn't want that put in the greedy hands of corporations. I like it especially when there is no monopoly on the state side and they have to compete with private businesses.

The economics of socialism is fundamentally bad.
But the political consequence, ie, political & social
authoritarianism, is a bad consequence of granting
such power that's needed for economic authoritarianism.

We have different experiences in Europe.

 

[Revoltingest]

I like my state and communally owned suppliers of basic goods and services, like water and public transport. I wouldn't want that put in the greedy hands of corporations.

As opposed to the imperious qualified immunity hand of
government, eh.
I don't object to public utilities, but I like private alternatives too.
For example, my propane supplier is far easier to work with than
any public utility I've ever used. They compete to get this customer
to like their service & prices.

I like it especially when there is no monopoly on the state side and they have to compete with private businesses.

So do I.

We have different experiences in Europe.

Yeah, you guys are a mess.