Showing the other is correct.

[Ben Dhyan]

It unambiguously acknowledges that the equation is ambiguous, 'The net result is that the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions of any kind, and the resulting margin of error is huge, far beyond what some consider acceptable or meaningful'
and that Drake himself presented it as a conversation starter, at a time when we were unaware of many of the hurdles facing life


we have an ear on an entire Galaxy, a very nice large one at that, scanning frequencies that are the most useful for communication, by virtue of properties that are constant in the universe

the total deafening silence here doesn't Bode well for other galaxies. And it's not just the utter lack of radio signals, or light signals, or any other signals, but the lack of aliens themselves.

In less than a lifetime we went from the first powered flight to walking on the moon
A single civilization with tech. not much greater than ours, could have colonized the entire galaxy many times over by now, while earth stood vacant as an extremely attractive piece of real estate. This task is arguably far lesser than that faced by microbes colonizing Earth, but (ancient alien theories not withstanding) this apparently never happened.

Why not do you think?

I did not see where that article states the Drake Equation shows that life elsewhere in the universe is improbable, only that is was probable, in which case it is not ambiguous as you claim. However I stand corrected if you are able to show us where it states positively the probability of life elsewhere is zero, if you can't, then I am disappointed in your lack of understanding of the English language.

What are these hurdles facing life science has discovered in recent years that were unknown before?

It appears you do no understand what I explained to you wrt the so called 'deafening silence', em energy radiation wavelengths range from the infinitesimal to the infinite, all of which can theoretically be used for communication, mankind with his present state of radio communication technology can only master an infinitesimally small part of this spectrum so it is not a significant factor when this is considered as any advanced civilization would have evolved more sophisticated techniques for communication. Even as we speak, China apparently has an unbreakable encrypted wireless network in the works, so SETI as it now stands would have problems detecting it. Why China built a quantum communications satellite

And for laughs.... Meat

Not only has the galaxy been colonized, the whole universe is One Kingdom, or are you not aware of the Celestial hierarchy, Angels, Archangels, Spiritual Beings all the way up to the ONE Universal God?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I did not see where that article states the Drake Equation shows that life elsewhere in the universe is improbable, only that is was probable, in which case it is not ambiguous as you claim. However I stand corrected if you are able to show us where it states positively the probability of life elsewhere is zero, if you can't, then I am disappointed in your lack of understanding of the English language.

What are these hurdles facing life science has discovered in recent years that were unknown before?

It appears you do no understand what I explained to you wrt the so called 'deafening silence', em energy radiation wavelengths range from the infinitesimal to the infinite, all of which can theoretically be used for communication, mankind with his present state of radio communication technology can only master an infinitesimally small part of this spectrum so it is not a significant factor when this is considered as any advanced civilization would have evolved more sophisticated techniques for communication. Even as we speak, China apparently has an unbreakable encrypted wireless network in the works, so SETI as it now stands would have problems detecting it. Why China built a quantum communications satellite

And for laughs.... Meat

Not only has the galaxy been colonized, the whole universe is One Kingdom, or are you not aware of the Celestial hierarchy, Angels, Archangels, Spiritual Beings all the way up to the ONE Universal God?

Come on Ben, no need for the personal attacks here, you sound like a perfectly reasonable intelligent person to me, if you misunderstood any of my points, then it is my fault for not stating them clearly enough

The equation is a question, not an answer- if you believe the universe has been colonized by angels, I respect that belief.

I can only suggest taking an honest stab at filling in the variables yourself, if the universe is 22 bottles on a wall, each representing a power of 10, then every 1 in 10 hurdle required for complex life, is a bottle knocked off the wall. My point is that all the bottles can be easily knocked off with estimates well within the margins of error.

Even after the dinosaurs were clinically removed after 100s of millions of years, only 1 single species in millions happened to develop intelligence as SETI would define it, if the probability of intelligence on an earthlike planet were one in a million, there go 6 of your 22 bottles right there. The universe is simply way too small to guarantee other sentient beings


Some frequencies focused on by SETI are referred to as the 'water hole' its a uniquely useful channel in the range, cleared for communication by a quantum peculiarity in the nature of the electrons within the hydrogen atom, but they also look at many other obvious choices, based again on the same inherent characteristics of certain bands that exist throughout the universe. Sure aliens could be going out of their way to avoid obvious channels, but all of them? Perhaps they are intentionally preserving our ignorance as a sort of safari park of uncontacted primitives, who knows, but at the very least we know that the galaxy is not teeming with technological species communicating by any obvious channels, that's something we did not know 50 years ago.

& they are looking for any intelligent pattern, it doesn't matter if they can't decode it, we'd assume we couldn't anyway

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Come on Ben, no need for the personal attacks here, you sound like a perfectly reasonable intelligent person to me, if you misunderstood any of my points, then it is my fault for not stating them clearly enough

The equation is a question, not an answer- if you believe the universe has been colonized by angels, I respect that belief.

I can only suggest taking an honest stab at filling in the variables yourself, if the universe is 22 bottles on a wall, each representing a power of 10, then every 1 in 10 hurdle required for complex life, is a bottle knocked off the wall. My point is that all the bottles can be easily knocked off with estimates well within the margins of error.

Even after the dinosaurs were clinically removed after 100s of millions of years, only 1 single species in millions happened to develop intelligence as SETI would define it, if the probability of intelligence on an earthlike planet were one in a million, there go 6 of your 22 bottles right there. The universe is simply way too small to guarantee other sentient beings


Some frequencies focused on by SETI are referred to as the 'water hole' its a uniquely useful channel in the range, cleared for communication by a quantum peculiarity in the nature of the electrons within the hydrogen atom, but they also look at many other obvious choices, based again on the same inherent characteristics of certain bands that exist throughout the universe. Sure aliens could be going out of their way to avoid obvious channels, but all of them? Perhaps they are intentionally preserving our ignorance as a sort of safari park of uncontacted primitives, who knows, but at the very least we know that the galaxy is not teeming with technological species communicating by any obvious channels, that's something we did not know 50 years ago.

& they are looking for any intelligent pattern, it doesn't matter if they can't decode it, we'd assume we couldn't anyway

No personal attack intended, however I do not like to wast time on inanity. it appears to me that you believe the universe is devoid of life except for planet Earth, while my understanding is the God is life and the very universe itself is the manifestation of the eternal life of God and life is thus ubiquitous throughout the universe, seen and unseen. The Earth is alive else there is an implication that the living plant, fish, human, etc., kingdoms were born, or created, or evolved, from dead substance, which is an absurd proposition. So it follows that the solar system is alive, else the living earth likewise is supposed to be born or evolved in dead substance. Same for the galaxies going forth up to the macro universe and likewise going down to the micro universe, all is God. God is immanent in the manifested universe and simultaneously transcendent to it. If you do not understand this, then you will not understand what i am explaining to you.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

No personal attack intended, however I do not like to wast time on inanity. it appears to me that you believe the universe is devoid of life except for planet Earth, while my understanding is the God is life and the very universe itself is the manifestation of the eternal life of God and life is thus ubiquitous throughout the universe, seen and unseen. The Earth is alive else there is an implication that the living plant, fish, human, etc., kingdoms were born, or created, or evolved, from dead substance, which is an absurd proposition. So it follows that the solar system is alive, else the living earth likewise is supposed to be born or evolved in dead substance. Same for the galaxies going forth up to the macro universe and likewise going down to the micro universe, all is God. God is immanent in the manifested universe and simultaneously transcendent to it. If you do not understand this, then you will not understand what i am explaining to you.

I think the odds are quite strongly against there being another humanity, or sentient species, going by what we know about the formation of solar systems.

But if I follow you, I agree that God is not restrained by the odds and rules of his own creation, if he wanted there to be other civilizations, then there are. But I don't follow that this would necessarily be the case.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I think the odds are quite strongly against there being another humanity, or sentient species, going by what we know about the formation of solar systems.

But if I follow you, I agree that God is not restrained by the odds and rules of his own creation, if he wanted there to be other civilizations, then there are. But I don't follow that this would necessarily be the case.

Huh...."by what we know about the formation of solar systems"? And btw, who is this we? Solar systems are formed from of the remnant substance, seen and unseen, of previous stars. Reincarnation is the lot of all universal forms, there was never a beginning to the creation, preservation, and destruction cycles of form, nor will there ever be an end, the universe, seen and unseen, is eternal.

But out of curiosity, please be explicit and explain the reason you understand the formation of solar systems precludes the evolution of humanity, with the exception of this one?

 

[1AOA1]

Materialism has its own perception of God, its own name for it (nature), and its own texts about it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Materialism has its own perception of God, its own name for it (nature), and its own texts about it.

Agreed, but this understanding is very difficult to explain to both most theists and atheists...